Shattered Vow

[Rainer79]

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Ark, my opponent has admitted that he is producing 200 zeros, 200 oscars and 200 tojos in July of 1942.

200 Zeroes, 200 Oscars and 200 Tojos? I wouldn't take that claim at face value (and I am playing a scen 2 game as IJN). All of these planes use the same engine - and so do Kates, Lilies and Nicks to name but a few. Even if the plane factories are built up to that level I doubt he can sustain such a production in the long run without running into a serious engine shortage.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm doing the usual training.  For example, an SBD-3 squadron arrives in SD with 35 experience pilots.  I set this to train at 80%.  Or a Kittyhawk III squadron arrives at Cloncurry with pilots at 35 (or whatever).  Same thing.

But that's the extent of my pilot training - that and trying to employ bombers against "easy" bases (like Port Moresby) to build some experience, but that doesn't seem to work very well.

At least load up the new squadron with extra pilots until the Get Pilot button grays out. When you deem the squadron trained, put the excess trained pilots into general reserve. Them, if the squadron is still not on the line, add more rookies (until the Get Pilot button grays out), and keep the whole squadron training.

Minimal management that will help a lot.

[Rainer79]

Edit: Deleted double post.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm doing the usual training.  For example, an SBD-3 squadron arrives in SD with 35 experience pilots.  I set this to train at 80%.  Or a Kittyhawk III squadron arrives at Cloncurry with pilots at 35 (or whatever).  Same thing.

But that's the extent of my pilot training - that and trying to employ bombers against "easy" bases (like Port Moresby) to build some experience, but that doesn't seem to work very well.

At least load up the new squadron with extra pilots until the Get Pilot button grays out. When you deem the squadron trained, put the excess trained pilots into general reserve. Them, if the squadron is still not on the line, add more rookies (until the Get Pilot button grays out), and keep the whole squadron training.

Minimal management that will help a lot.

Thanks for the advice, wtpqs, but I honestly don't want to do that. I don't even know how to put pilots into reserve. I don't want to know. It's ridiculous to play a strategic game and deal with pilots. I realize this puts me at a disadvantage with pilot training. At this point I am willing to accept that disadvantage so that I can continue to enjoy the game. If that disadvantage ends up interfering with my ability to enjoy the game, I'll have to choose between pilot micromanagement or giving up AE (after this game).

[khyberbill]

At least load up the new squadron with extra pilots until the Get Pilot button grays out

This is good advice for you to avoid the micromanagement. Once the lowest exp is up to 50 then send them to war! Sort of a mini training department in every squad. I dont like having to deal with training either and follow this approach, and then once a month, cull out the 81+ pilots and send them to training command.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Rainer79

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Ark, my opponent has admitted that he is producing 200 zeros, 200 oscars and 200 tojos in July of 1942.

200 Zeroes, 200 Oscars and 200 Tojos? I wouldn't take that claim at face value (and I am playing a scen 2 game as IJN). All of these planes use the same engine - and so do Kates, Lilies and Nicks to name but a few. Even if the plane factories are built up to that level I doubt he can sustain such a production in the long run without running into a serious engine shortage.

Well, I hope so but I doubt that he is misleading me. Even so, he could probably just turn off the oscars. He is making enough tojos as I am seeing them everywhere.

[Mark Weston]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Thanks for the advice, wtpqs, but I honestly don't want to do that. I don't even know how to put pilots into reserve. I don't want to know. It's ridiculous to play a strategic game and deal with pilots. I realize this puts me at a disadvantage with pilot training. At this point I am willing to accept that disadvantage so that I can continue to enjoy the game. If that disadvantage ends up interfering with my ability to enjoy the game, I'll have to choose between pilot micromanagement or giving up AE (after this game).

This is a perspective I completely agree with - in theory. It is ludicrous that micromanagement is possible or necessary at the pilot-by-pilot level, both in terms of realism and good game design. My problem is that I'm too competitive and too much of a powergamer to ignore features that I know are there. So now I waste hours of my life clicking on individual pilot names in pursuit of a fully optimised training program. [8|]

[anarchyintheuk]

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Thanks for the advice, wtpqs, but I honestly don't want to do that. I don't even know how to put pilots into reserve. I don't want to know. It's ridiculous to play a strategic game and deal with pilots. I realize this puts me at a disadvantage with pilot training. At this point I am willing to accept that disadvantage so that I can continue to enjoy the game. If that disadvantage ends up interfering with my ability to enjoy the game, I'll have to choose between pilot micromanagement or giving up AE (after this game).

This is a perspective I completely agree with - in theory. It is ludicrous that micromanagement is possible or necessary at the pilot-by-pilot level, both in terms of realism and good game design. My problem is that I'm too competitive and too much of a powergamer to ignore features that I know are there. So now I waste hours of my life clicking on individual pilot names in pursuit of a fully optimised training program. [8|]

Ditto, I'm kinda ocd about ignoring features that are there. I try to temper that ocd by only engaging in it on the 15/30 of every month when the normal base reviews occur. Much like paydays.

BTW, a month ago or so I had a cv battle with my SBD's at 18k. I had forgotten about the glidebombing/divebombing altitude differences. Any chance your SBD's were too high?

[Q-Ball]

Interesting on the pilots......Dan, I bet the difference, other than airframe availability, is that Miller spends alot of time on pilot training, and knows all the tricks, and you don't. That makes a big difference.

Any IJN pilot that started the game is probably in TRACOM or dead, but his whole fleet stil has 70+ skill pilots

[Rainer79]

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Well, I hope so but I doubt that he is misleading me. Even so, he could probably just turn off the oscars. He is making enough tojos as I am seeing them everywhere.

Hmm, I would look for ways to attriting his other Ha-35 using airframes then (Kates, Lilies, Nicks, Oscars, A6M2s, A6M3s, Rufes off the top of my head). In any case, building that many engine factories would take a big chunk out of his industry budget and he is either not building up much of a HI surplus or is critically underfunding other parts of his economy.

[janh]

Canoerebel, I am a bit confused by your reports.  What again are your losses for the last battle now?   CVs Essex and Wasp sunk, Constellation and CVL Bellau Wood damaged?  And the battlewagons and CA, CL, DD?

[Canoerebel]

Oh, thanks for making me dredge up the awful memories...[:)]

Sunk CV:  Wasp, Constitution, Essex (also a CVL)
Sunk CVE:  I think five or six.
Damaged carriers that may not make it:  CV Victorious (only moderately hit, but it's position is bad)
Damaged carriers that should be fine:  CV Saratoga, CV Bunker Hill, CV Constitution, two CVL.

At least two CVEs survivived and these will be joined by four more on the way from SoPac.  CVL Monteray is also on the way from SoPac.

Of the BBs, I scuttled Maryland. California is almost certainly a goner and Colorado's chances are slim.  A few BBs suffered light damage, but the "good" Allied BBs are in pretty decent shape overall.

Of the CAs, I think I've lost Vincennes and two CLAAs.  Overall, the CA/CL fleet is fine.

Of the DDs, a few were lost escorting transports, but most are fine.

The overall effect of this battle was to radically alter the carrier balance in favor of the Japanese, but to further erode Japan's combat TF power in favor of the Allies (despite the loss of three slow BBs).

I think the Allies can outgun the Japanese in combat ships, but in carriers it's no contest for awhile.

[Canoerebel]

P.S.  While dealing with the last turn I figured out how to send pilots to training command and sent a half-dozen or so.  I'll try to look a little more into this despite my abhorence of pilot micromanagement.

But what's with the American pilots?  New RAF squadrons are arriving with pilots from high 50s to low 70s in experience.  New USAAF and USN squadrons arrive with pilots in the 20s or 30s (occasionally a tad bit higher).

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Rainer79

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Well, I hope so but I doubt that he is misleading me. Even so, he could probably just turn off the oscars. He is making enough tojos as I am seeing them everywhere.

Hmm, I would look for ways to attriting his other Ha-35 using airframes then (Kates, Lilies, Nicks, Oscars, A6M2s, A6M3s, Rufes off the top of my head). In any case, building that many engine factories would take a big chunk out of his industry budget and he is either not building up much of a HI surplus or is critically underfunding other parts of his economy.

Well, I think it is the scenario (#2) more than anything else. Miller seems to be replacing aircraft farily quickly. Right now I am in July 1942, so there is really no way to attrition him yet. I have many sqadrons flying obsolete planes and have to hold some reserves to fight off invasions. I think I just have to accept that Allied air superiority won't come until much later than it normally would.

[Rainer79]

You can always use the best allied fighter on the map - the B-17. Nothing in the Japanese arsenal can really hurt them early on. Equal numbers of cannon-armed fighters really struggle to shoot down more than one or two of them and on day 2+ they will be able to torch quite a few damaged fighters on the ground.

BTW sorry for hi-jacking the AAR.

[Canoerebel]

You haven't hijacked it - the comments are related to the situation I'm facing. 
 
My B-17 and B-24 have indeed been effective in the game - they've claimed many,  many fighters.  But the recent spate of non-stop invasion activity in the eastern DEI has my squadrons wore to a frazzle.  I don't think I'm getting B-17 replacements now and the B-27J come in decent numbers, but not enough to handle what I'm doing.
 
I've also noticed that experience levels for two of my B-24 squadrons have dropped into the high 30s recently (due to losses to experienced pilots, I'm sure).
 
 

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

But what's with the American pilots?  New RAF squadrons are arriving with pilots from high 50s to low 70s in experience.  New USAAF and USN squadrons arrive with pilots in the 20s or 30s (occasionally a tad bit higher).

They are Europe & Africa combat veterans!

[Canoerebel]

This combat result from the 5th has me chewing nails:
 
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Nov 05, 43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Sorong at 82,107, Range 12,000 Yards
 
Allied aircraft
      no flights
 
Allied aircraft losses
No Allied losses
 
Japanese Ships
      CA Tone, Shell hits 1
      CA Myoko, Shell hits 2
      CA Haguro, Shell hits 2
      CA Nachi, Shell hits 1
      CA Ashigara, Shell hits 8,  on fire
      CA Mogami, Shell hits 3
      DD Shimakaze, Shell hits 2,  on fire
      DD Shiranui
      DD Amatsukaze, Shell hits 1
      DD Tokitsukaze, Shell hits 2,  on fire
      DD Urakaze, Shell hits 1
      DD Nagatsuki, Shell hits 1
      DD Mochizuki
      DD Tagonami
      DD Suruyame, Shell hits 2
      DD Tadeyame
      DD Yamanagiri
      DD Arikaze
      DD Satsukaze
      DD Hikokaze
      DD Susukaze
 
Allied Ships
      BB South Dakota, Shell hits 30, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
      BB Royal Sovereign, Shell hits 20
      CA Chester, Shell hits 2,  heavy fires
      CA Shropshire, Shell hits 1
      CL Tromp
      DD McCook, Shell hits 2,  on fire
      DD Frankford, Shell hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
      DD Sampson
      DD O'Brien, Shell hits 2
      DD Walke, Shell hits 2,  on fire
      DMS Dorsey, Shell hits 3,  on fire,  heavy damage
 

[Canoerebel]

Just sent this email to Miller:
 
"Scenario Two means that the Japanese are at least equal in power to the Allies in late '43 (and how far into '44 I don't know).  In ships, in aircraft, in pilot quality, and in ground troops the Japanese can match or exceed the Allies.  That makes for a balanced game, but it doesn't bear any resemblance to World War II."

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Battle of the Morotai Sea - note the widely dispersed carrier location (due to the much-hated - at least by me - react feature).

Hey, CR. Couldn't resist a comment.

I've read everyone else's views re Japanese plane production, pilot training, 2-day turns, etc. I think they're all true, so I'll just add a few thoughts that haven't been presented. Agree or not.

1. Macro quesiton: a few weeks ago everyone was hoisting a glass to the thought that AE has shown the wisdom and power of a late-1943--early-1944 DEI campaign as an alternate to the Mid-Pac historical strategy. Does this battle shake that assumption, or did you just move too far too soon? I think it's the former, and it's not a matter of your tactics, it's a matter of pure geography.

Your CAP was beefy, but it got worn down by LB fighters. Take away just the Oscars and you have at least two more CVs alive. You have been very careful to expand in a triangle out from Darwin, staying under decent LRCAP. This thrust put you in his "triangle"--Ternate, Manado, Peleliu, and Morotai itself. The geography of the DEI makes it inevitable that at some point the Allies are going to hang a curve ball and hope for the dice to fall their way. Here, they didn't fall for you. He got perfect strike sequencing, and by the time his huge, CV-hammer fell, your Hellcats had already been nibbled to death by Oscars.

Would it have mattered if you'd done Timor first and taken a bigger roundhouse swing at the NE DEI? Maybe others can comment on that. But the bottom line is the DEI is DENSE. There are lots of medium good airfields, and he has internal lines of communication to shift out of your sight. The Marianas, OTOH, are air-isolated. The carrier force you had for this op could have attitted all four islands there pretty safely, and set up the historical path to strat bomb the HI. The DEI campaign, if it works, is faster, and perhaps more beautiful in its gear-works. But as we saw, much more dice-critical. If the IJA air had been in historical shape by late 1943 here, you'd probably have been fine. In a Scenario 2 economy, is the DEI really do-able? Comments?

2. I had been 90% convinced that CVE durability is porked in the game, and your results convince me. They go up like kerosene-soaked rags, and they didn't in the war. They're essentially xAKs durability-wise, and in reality they were built to milspec, had big, regular Navy DC-trained crews, and losing one in the real war was a Big Deal. In the game the Allied player loses them like lunch money. I've been exploring the editor, and in my next AI game I will adjust these guys so they're useful for more than one op.

3. You don't seem too down, and you shouldn't be. In your carnage there are gems of goodness. You clocked his CA force and it's not coming back. I forget how many BBs he has left after the Kuriles (4?) but you've basically taken out middle-management STF-wise. Yeah, he has carriers to spare, but it's a long way from a CV to a DD.

4. I don't know how you set up each TF, but I've played with my BBs and have concluded that bombardment is too light in AE to waste them there. I put at least two modern, or near-modern, fast BBs in for every three CVs in Air TFs. The code targets them nearly as much as the carriers, and they can shrug off most DBs, taking out 30-40% of his DB weapons, plus AA loses to airframes themselves. After the 1943 upgrades the BBs are AA castles. As you've said, CAP in AE is not to be totally relied upon. What the Iowa or New Jersey can do to a flight of Betties is scary. I don't know if you had the BBs in tight with the Essexes, but in my experience, in 1944, they work well together. Not just the AA rating, which is huge, but the fact that they subtract bombs from the offense--defense equation.

5. I don't recall your exact agreement/situation with China, but is it time to activate there, just to soak up some squads and armament points of his? I've been doing Chinese attacks, even at 1:3 or 1:4, and they do get some Japanese squads out of the pool and into Asia. That's one area where the Japanese production system can be bled.

6. On that, same with the Burma theater. Some of those Oscars would have been in Burma if you were doing an air attrition campaign over there. The Spits can hold their own by late 1943 if they have enough mechanics, (and I have some P-47s and P-51As there too) and every plane and pilot lost in Burma stays out of the DEI. Just a thought. You've as much as told him you're living or dying in the DEI. Now, you need to diversify a bit and make him look at more than one axis. If not Burma or China, open a second front somewhere. If you don't have transports to spare, do it by air.

7. Re HMS Victorious (?), she's late for withdrawl, yes? Is she damaged enough to not be withdrawlable without months of repairs? If so, that's a PP sponge. She doesn't sound scuttleable either, so . . . maybe a tough row to hoe if she makes port. Maybe you do a suicide run with her if she can't make Sydney, and save the long-term PP losses?

Anyway, just some thoughts.