Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part)

[mgoldstein]

Michael,

First off, thanks for continuing to support AE. Secondly, a request: Is there anything you can do to improve the game mechanics for strafing attacks? I'm a strafing fanboy, but have found strafing attacks to be ineffective -- even with fighters that possess excellent firepower and pilots that have high levels of strafing skill.

Some fix ideas:
1) Ability to train bomber crews in strafing skill. Attack bombers really need this.
2) Increase the accuracy of strafing attacks. Strafing should be much more accurate than bombing. I'd expect planes with a lot of guns and skilled pilots to score many more hits.
3) Strafing attacks on ships should score more hits on the deck. Combined with increased accuracy this should result in an increased chance of hits on exposed gun mounts. Suppressing AAA fire being one of the primary benefits of strafing.

Is there anything I can do with database manipulation to improve strafing without queering air-to-air combat? I'm experimenting with boosting the anti-soft score, but I'm wary of boosting accuracy or effectiveness for fear that it will skew dogfighting results. Any advice you can provide would be appreciated!

Thanks again,
Marc

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: mgoldstein

1) Ability to train bomber crews in strafing skill. Attack bombers really need this.

Been there for a long time in the Betas. Set bomber or fighter group to 100' and train on ground attack, they will train in Strafing. I am doing it. Works great.

[Cavalry Corp]

ORIGINAL: Pascal

Deleted. Thought there was a problem in search arcs but as I remember from previous discussions, the search arcs only go out to normal range and don't display to extended range.

I thought in one of the Betas it was fixed for drop tanks??

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

ORIGINAL: Satansbraten

Would like to report a possible bug in the LCU upgrade routine:

Situation in my game:
100th RAF Base Force has (0)x0 of 3"/20cwt AA guns and (0)x0 of 2pdr AA guns listed in its current active equipment.
My understanding is that the switch for upgrade options ("No Upgrade" / "Upgrade Allowed", which is active if Replacements are turned on for an unit) should prevent the upgrade of those items to 3.7" Mk II AA gun respectively 40mm Bofors AA gun even if pools for those are plentiful.
But this is not the case:
- Replacements turned on for the unit, everything else turned off (whole map)
- Switch set to "No upgrade" (directly in the unit screen)
- All of the mentioned AA guns have pools > 0
- 3.7" Mk II is set to stockpile, all others to no stockpile

Result is the unit changed to "(0)x0 3.7" Mk II AA gun" + "(0)x0 of 40mm Bofors AA gun". My aim was that the unit uses up the old equipment, and the newer guns are saved for use in other units. This behaviour seems to be more or less standard for (0)x0 items if the "Show TOE" button reveals a different set of items for their position in the list and pools for the new item are not zero. In the same turn the unit didn't change its "(0)x0 RR/Vickers A/C" to "(0)x0 Humber I" but took one RR/Vickers A/C from pool instead. I think the reason for this is that the Humber I pool is currently empty (playing in mid March,1942 so its already on the board but was used in other units).

A comparable case I tested is the 18th Chinese Base Force. In my game it lists the typical set of the older US AA guns at start (37mm Colt etc.), all (0)x0. I didn't allow replacements for that unit until all of the available US-made Chinese guns were distributed to other units. When looking at the TOE the 18th Chinese BF list a different set of AA guns, so it does an upgrade (my expectation: if allowed). Testing this showed that it does perform the upgrade despite an active "No Upgrade" switch (Replacements On). It uses a portion of available .303 AAMG(x2) from pool.

edit: Tested with q9b, so this may have been adressed?

Can you give me a save of that situation?
It may be that a 0 x 0 device will automatically get updated as it doesn't need any devices to edit on.

It is not device upgrading per se.
What is happening is that the device is being matched to the TOE as there are no devices currently in the slot for that unit. As no devices actually needed, the device is changed to match the TOE.

[hades1001]

It is not device upgrading per se.
What is happening is that the device is being matched to the TOE as there are no devices currently in the slot for that unit. As no devices actually needed, the device is changed to match the TOE.
[/quote]

Is it possible to prevent this? Sometime I have outdated devices in the pool I would like the unit to use because new devices are always scarce.

[michaelm75au]

Logically, it should not "upgrade".

[Chris21wen]

michaelm

What does the 'Upgrade allowed' button do on the LCU screen? Does it allow the upgrade of devices etc., or does it allow the upgrade of of the TOE?

[michaelm75au]

It controls the upgrade of the LCU devices.

TOE upgrade is dependent on the REST status.

What is discussed above is the device changing to match the current TOE device type, rather than the TOE/formation changing to a new one.

[Satansbraten]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

It controls the upgrade of the LCU devices.

TOE upgrade is dependent on the REST status.

What is discussed above is the device changing to match the current TOE device type, rather than the TOE/formation changing to a new one.

Ok, so conclusion is I can control/prevent upgrade of current TOE items when setting it to Combat (plus Replacements ON and Upgrade OFF), without regarding pool numbers for any current or future TOE device for that unit? The above setting would equal an "use it up"-command for currently employed stuff and would begin to fill 0x0 stuff without prior upgrade to next device?

Will test it this evening or tomorrow (I still worry about the missing "+" mark for the 3"/20cwt). What I'm also concerned about is that the order of the list is not changed (my understanding is this will not happen, cause it's the actual TOE change). Reason for this is, that in some games I had those cases where device entries are doubled, most commonly two entries for the Support squad device and then these are slowly shifted over, but I also had a Brit BF which took 20+ Eng Vehicles (nice but gamey). The support squad thing can be seen in the posted Save. Some Aussie BF have it, they are located in the Adelaide/Sydney/Canberra area. If the Eng Vehicle case is also from this game then the unit is at Broome.

I think when playing as Allies the LCU upgrade mechanics are quite important to know and manage in order to field as much equipment as possible, as soon as possible. The new pool options (filters) and markings ("*" denoting upgrade paths) are a big help and reduce dependance on Tracker, which is a great tool but gets somewhat slow the further you advance in turns. There are many, many upgrade paths for any kind of equipment, and many bottlenecks. My most loved ones are all of the British related stuff and all those countries which use them with different starting points in the upgrade path of course. Sounds like a personal campaign to stop those nasty rear guard guys toying with my newest equipment[:D].

[Bliztk]

Hi michael, here is a savegame with the latest betapatch.

File in next post


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Rangoon , at 54,53

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-61-Ia Tony x 21



Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 11


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-61-Ia Tony: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 2 damaged



Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
64th Sentai with Ki-61-Ia Tony (4 airborne, 9 on standby, 3 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 45 minutes
64th Sentai Det with Ki-61-Ia Tony (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 46 minutes
--------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 43 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 14



Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 3


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged



Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
5th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Bliztk]

Attached file

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

Hi michael, here is a savegame with the latest betapatch.

File in next post


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Rangoon , at 54,53

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-61-Ia Tony x 21



Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 11


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-61-Ia Tony: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 2 damaged



Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
64th Sentai with Ki-61-Ia Tony (4 airborne, 9 on standby, 3 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 45 minutes
64th Sentai Det with Ki-61-Ia Tony (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 46 minutes
--------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 43 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 14



Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 3


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged



Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
5th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many of my night attacks strayed (10 squadrons in total). Think of what it might have been like.

It was bad... My aircrews are getting experienced.

On the other hand, I have five large bases near where the KB hangs out (25 or so experienced squadrons briefed for naval attack), and none of them ever launch against the KB (in six to eight months of operations). They launch fine for LBA ops and often take it on the chin, but never against the Japanese carriers or SAGs.

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: Satansbraten

ORIGINAL: michaelm

It controls the upgrade of the LCU devices.

TOE upgrade is dependent on the REST status.

What is discussed above is the device changing to match the current TOE device type, rather than the TOE/formation changing to a new one.

Ok, so conclusion is I can control/prevent upgrade of current TOE items when setting it to Combat (plus Replacements ON and Upgrade OFF), without regarding pool numbers for any current or future TOE device for that unit? The above setting would equal an "use it up"-command for currently employed stuff and would begin to fill 0x0 stuff without prior upgrade to next device?

Will test it this evening or tomorrow (I still worry about the missing "+" mark for the 3"/20cwt). What I'm also concerned about is that the order of the list is not changed (my understanding is this will not happen, cause it's the actual TOE change). Reason for this is, that in some games I had those cases where device entries are doubled, most commonly two entries for the Support squad device and then these are slowly shifted over, but I also had a Brit BF which took 20+ Eng Vehicles (nice but gamey). The support squad thing can be seen in the posted Save. Some Aussie BF have it, they are located in the Adelaide/Sydney/Canberra area. If the Eng Vehicle case is also from this game then the unit is at Broome.

I think when playing as Allies the LCU upgrade mechanics are quite important to know and manage in order to field as much equipment as possible, as soon as possible. The new pool options (filters) and markings ("*" denoting upgrade paths) are a big help and reduce dependance on Tracker, which is a great tool but gets somewhat slow the further you advance in turns. There are many, many upgrade paths for any kind of equipment, and many bottlenecks. My most loved ones are all of the British related stuff and all those countries which use them with different starting points in the upgrade path of course. Sounds like a personal campaign to stop those nasty rear guard guys toying with my newest equipment[:D].

On the save I am looking at the 3"/20 is stockpiled so it can't be used - thus no '+'. Took stockpile off and it showed a '+'.
BTW, a device with (0) x 0 will currently still change to match the TOE device - 3"/20 will change to 3.7".

[Satansbraten]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

ORIGINAL: Satansbraten

ORIGINAL: michaelm

It controls the upgrade of the LCU devices.

TOE upgrade is dependent on the REST status.

What is discussed above is the device changing to match the current TOE device type, rather than the TOE/formation changing to a new one.

Ok, so conclusion is I can control/prevent upgrade of current TOE items when setting it to Combat (plus Replacements ON and Upgrade OFF), without regarding pool numbers for any current or future TOE device for that unit? The above setting would equal an "use it up"-command for currently employed stuff and would begin to fill 0x0 stuff without prior upgrade to next device?

Will test it this evening or tomorrow (I still worry about the missing "+" mark for the 3"/20cwt). What I'm also concerned about is that the order of the list is not changed (my understanding is this will not happen, cause it's the actual TOE change). Reason for this is, that in some games I had those cases where device entries are doubled, most commonly two entries for the Support squad device and then these are slowly shifted over, but I also had a Brit BF which took 20+ Eng Vehicles (nice but gamey). The support squad thing can be seen in the posted Save. Some Aussie BF have it, they are located in the Adelaide/Sydney/Canberra area. If the Eng Vehicle case is also from this game then the unit is at Broome.

I think when playing as Allies the LCU upgrade mechanics are quite important to know and manage in order to field as much equipment as possible, as soon as possible. The new pool options (filters) and markings ("*" denoting upgrade paths) are a big help and reduce dependance on Tracker, which is a great tool but gets somewhat slow the further you advance in turns. There are many, many upgrade paths for any kind of equipment, and many bottlenecks. My most loved ones are all of the British related stuff and all those countries which use them with different starting points in the upgrade path of course. Sounds like a personal campaign to stop those nasty rear guard guys toying with my newest equipment[:D].

On the save I am looking at the 3"/20 is stockpiled so it can't be used - thus no '+'. Took stockpile off and it showed a '+'.
BTW, a device with (0) x 0 will currently still change to match the TOE device - 3"/20 will change to 3.7".

Meaning that I must first distribute my 3.7" stock to other units so it is zero? Then 3"/20cwt will be drawn (given stockpile OFF)? This is a guess based on the RR/Vickers A/C not upgrading to Humber I A/C experience.
For example this also means I will have to closely monitor/manage all evacuated Dutch units. They in turn start mostly with 80mm guns in the heavy AA department upgrading to the 3"/20cwt and so on. Same goes for all the other equipment which has paths to British equipment (e.g. 20mm Rheinmetall medium AA).

Couldn't there be a "Keep TOE" or "Keep equipment" switch as simple solution for all this?

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

It controls the upgrade of the LCU devices.

TOE upgrade is dependent on the REST status.

What is discussed above is the device changing to match the current TOE device type, rather than the TOE/formation changing to a new one.

That's what I thought but I seemed to have an odd upgrade taking place until I checked back two turns and it turned out to be brain problem[;)]

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

Hi michael, here is a savegame with the latest betapatch.

File in next post


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Rangoon , at 54,53

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-61-Ia Tony x 21



Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 11


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-61-Ia Tony: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 2 damaged



Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
64th Sentai with Ki-61-Ia Tony (4 airborne, 9 on standby, 3 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 45 minutes
64th Sentai Det with Ki-61-Ia Tony (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 46 minutes
--------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 43 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 14



Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 3


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged



Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Port Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
5th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many of my night attacks strayed (10 squadrons in total). Think of what it might have been like.

It was bad... My aircrews are getting experienced.

On the other hand, I have five large bases near where the KB hangs out (25 or so experienced squadrons briefed for naval attack), and none of them ever launch against the KB (in six to eight months of operations). They launch fine for LBA ops and often take it on the chin, but never against the Japanese carriers or SAGs.

Thinking about it while driving my wife shopping, I suspect this is two sides of the same problem. Both sides have figured out ways of pushing the air engine into a predictable pattern that favours their tactics. My opponent has learned massing the KB creates an air death star that nothing except carriers will launch against. I've learned massed air bombing will attract SEFs like moths to a flame but is invulnerable to their attacks--at the same time the air bombing will slowly attrite whatever is being attacked.

[Satansbraten]

ORIGINAL: Satansbraten

ORIGINAL: michaelm

ORIGINAL: Satansbraten




Ok, so conclusion is I can control/prevent upgrade of current TOE items when setting it to Combat (plus Replacements ON and Upgrade OFF), without regarding pool numbers for any current or future TOE device for that unit? The above setting would equal an "use it up"-command for currently employed stuff and would begin to fill 0x0 stuff without prior upgrade to next device?

Will test it this evening or tomorrow (I still worry about the missing "+" mark for the 3"/20cwt). What I'm also concerned about is that the order of the list is not changed (my understanding is this will not happen, cause it's the actual TOE change). Reason for this is, that in some games I had those cases where device entries are doubled, most commonly two entries for the Support squad device and then these are slowly shifted over, but I also had a Brit BF which took 20+ Eng Vehicles (nice but gamey). The support squad thing can be seen in the posted Save. Some Aussie BF have it, they are located in the Adelaide/Sydney/Canberra area. If the Eng Vehicle case is also from this game then the unit is at Broome.

I think when playing as Allies the LCU upgrade mechanics are quite important to know and manage in order to field as much equipment as possible, as soon as possible. The new pool options (filters) and markings ("*" denoting upgrade paths) are a big help and reduce dependance on Tracker, which is a great tool but gets somewhat slow the further you advance in turns. There are many, many upgrade paths for any kind of equipment, and many bottlenecks. My most loved ones are all of the British related stuff and all those countries which use them with different starting points in the upgrade path of course. Sounds like a personal campaign to stop those nasty rear guard guys toying with my newest equipment[:D].

On the save I am looking at the 3"/20 is stockpiled so it can't be used - thus no '+'. Took stockpile off and it showed a '+'.
BTW, a device with (0) x 0 will currently still change to match the TOE device - 3"/20 will change to 3.7".

Meaning that I must first distribute my 3.7" stock to other units so it is zero? Then 3"/20cwt will be drawn (given stockpile OFF)? This is a guess based on the RR/Vickers A/C not upgrading to Humber I A/C experience.
For example this also means I will have to closely monitor/manage all evacuated Dutch units. They in turn start mostly with 80mm guns in the heavy AA department upgrading to the 3"/20cwt and so on. Same goes for all the other equipment which has paths to British equipment (e.g. 20mm Rheinmetall medium AA).

Couldn't there be a "Keep TOE" or "Keep equipment" switch as simple solution for all this?

I'm still not sure how to manage my LCUs correctly. Maybe I made a misinterpretation what for the 'Upgrade'-button was introduced?
Basically what I'm looking for is a method to prevent LCUs from upgrading their devices to newer versions of a weapon and I'm not sure how the current implementation works.

Remembering the mechanism of the latest non-beta, this is what I used to know about LCU upgrade behaviour:
Device upgrade:
Takes place as soon as device number in unit is <= device number of newer device in pool (which I regarded as a bad thing, because it leads to bottlenecks in newer devices and loads of older unused devices in pool). Conditions: This is always on if replacements turned on.
TOE upgrade:
Takes place when the upgrade date is reached. Conditions: Unit in rest mode and replacements turned on.

Reading the changelog the following points are those which seem to be the relevant changes in handling:
[1108k]
Changed Refined the land device upgrade and replacement phases to better control devices [MEM]
Added LCU replacement/upgrade will handle duplicate/out of order devices in LCU [MEM]
[1108k6]
Added Option to stockpile some devices in the Device Pool. LCUs wont be able to use them for upgrades or replacements [MEM]
[1108q9]
Added Option to stop upgrades in LCU [MEM]

How does the current implementation work compared to the latest non-beta?:
Device upgrade: ?. Conditions: ?.
TOE upgrade: ?. Conditions: ?.

[Bullwinkle58]

michaelm, is there a changelog for the R3 beta? The download is there but the last log is for R2.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

michaelm, is there a changelog for the R3 beta? The download is there but the last log is for R2.

It's there it just didn't get spaced out from r2:

[1108r2]
Fixed HQ not swapping with fragment when fully offloaded from ship [MEM]
[1108r3]
Fixed No device upgrade of TOE when number is zero [MEM]
Fixed Error in class of respawned midget sub [MEM]
Fixed Misplaced TF icon not matching map location [MEM]

[Bullwinkle58]

Thanks. Gotta get Santa to bring new specs.