The Gamiest Game in Town - EL (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)

[Andav]

Walrus II: 1 destroyed
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 4 destroyed
SOC-1 Seagull: 6 destroyed

Were these guys actually flying cap or were they "Caught up in the battle" or how ever the message reads? I see them in the screen shot you posted and in the combat results so I believer they are not from something which sunk.

Wa

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

The Betties should not really have been there [:(]

Your probably right but I had to give them another chance.

Your strike though was good, many transports badly hit [:)]

On the other side, the Carrier fleet is now severly bleeded in fighter, I think you're left with 40 % of the fighter force?

Time to take a breath and reorganize? Air reinforcements, land based, on their way?

Fighter were down to about seventy percent but TBs and DBs were about forty. The fighters are now about ninety and the TBs and DBs about sixty. They will be higher in a turn or two.

I would have waited to unleash the main air strike...also, weather was thunderstormy, so bound to penalize greatly the attacker;
use it at your advantage.

On the other side though again, Rio's carrier fighter force, and replenishment, went down (not a lot, but a good start, and he cannot replenish or rotate as easily as you!)

I 100% agree the remaining northern islands airports constitute n 1 concern for Rio. If you've gathered enough Cap, Rio's going to be badly bleeded there, and if so...then he's yours (thumbs crossed)!

As Lowpe has remarked, very good time to unleash your surface fleet.

I'd suggest you though not to throw it in, if some more big (BBs, Cruisers; maybe some DDs and Cls squadrons) surface reinforcements are due to arrive soon, but wait for their arrival;

If i'm going to send the ships for a surface engagements, I'd send in ALL the air support and assets I could gather, muster and available.

All you suggested are on the way, days to weeks out.

That'd the mythical Decisive Battle (for an year and a half only...) so sought for by IJN. Marianas waters was IJN's n.1 candidate for it!
Banzai.

You'd send in also your subs lurking for prays, cripples, or otherwise ops points expended ships.

All for all!

Mind the weather.

Mind the weather.

Mind weather.

thank you for allowing comments on your thread.

Thanks. Your always welcome here.

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: Andav

Walrus II: 1 destroyed
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 4 destroyed
SOC-1 Seagull: 6 destroyed

Were these guys actually flying cap or were they "Caught up in the battle" or how ever the message reads? I see them in the screen shot you posted and in the combat results so I believer they are not from something which sunk.

Wa

I think caught-up in the battle. He had/has a lot of recon there also.

[el lobo]

PACIFIC Jun 24, 1943 Turn 565

Another couple of dents.

[el lobo]

PACIFIC Jun 24, 1943 Turn 565

That didn't take long.

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Ground combat at Saipan (108,93)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 42700 troops, 973 guns, 1115 vehicles, Assault Value = 1959

Defending force 6406 troops, 64 guns, 29 vehicles, Assault Value = 90

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Ground combat at Guam (106,95)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 65871 troops, 1727 guns, 1324 vehicles, Assault Value = 3165

Defending force 14988 troops, 109 guns, 5 vehicles, Assault Value = 328

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Ground combat at Tinian (108,94)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 16153 troops, 180 guns, 223 vehicles, Assault Value = 803

Defending force 833 troops, 8 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 8

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Ground combat at Rota (107,95)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 15620 troops, 320 guns, 260 vehicles, Assault Value = 658

Defending force 1277 troops, 0 guns, 39 vehicles, Assault Value = 2

[Rusty1961]

Yikes. He really chopped wood that day with all four taken.

[el lobo]

Yes he did indeed!

PACIFIC Jun 25, 1943 Turn 566

Too many subs. Time to leave.

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Sub attack near Pagan at 109,87

Japanese Ships
CVL Ryujo, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Arikaze

Allied Ships
SS Flying Fish
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ASW attack near Pagan at 109,87

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima, Torpedo hits 2
DD Oyashio
DD Urakaze

Allied Ships
SS Cisco
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Sub attack near Pagan at 109,87

Japanese Ships
CV Kaga, Torpedo hits 1
DD Arikaze

Allied Ships
SS Bowfin

[PaxMondo]

Well, now you've got an idea of what is needed and why. Review the posts that Lowpe and I gave you and get ready. I suspect you lost a lot of units here ... learn from this and be ready for the PI/Bonins/Kuriles next.

[Lowpe]

Ouch...

Assuming 100 prep on Marianas, the troops may get 25 prep on their next target so you have some time to prepare before he invades somewhere else. Most likely. There are AFBs that push speed over prep -- and a lot of times they aren't wrong. Why prep if you can take an empty base quickly and reinforce with fresh troops that don't need no stinking prep?

Troops do gain prep while loaded on ships however, so not as much time as you may think.[:(]

[adarbrauner]

Yes but how many depth charges attacks have you gained until know?

[el lobo]

So far I have lost eight Engineer units. I shouldn't lose too many more. (15 PPs) I lost seven air units, five of which I bought back, two I don't need. (~250 PPs)

I am already much better shape air wise. Haha-jima is General Defense which will allow me to bring a Restricted Betty and Zero unit down. All my Georges and Jacks are here.

I have more ground troops here but still lack Arty, some on the way but never enough. No Armor available.

Lots more ships coming, and more mine-layers this time. Still can't make midgets.

Junyo is in Iwo, will go to Y/Y in a couple of days. Less damage on the recent hits on the CVs and BB than there was on Junyo so they should make it back if not attacked again.

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Yes but how many depth charges attacks have you gained until know?

Lots of reported hits by a/c and some DC action but we won't know how effective they were until later.

Captain Haggard and I have been pretty open with each other about our sub attacks and losses during the game as it is fun to discuss and gibe each other. We are always interested in the sub vs sub attacks. As a note, there was only one successful sub vs sub torpedo attack during the war, and that was in the Atlantic.

[PaxMondo]

Bonins are much harder to defend ... but the principles all still apply. You already know from the Marianas you can't hold with a static defense. You also know that you have to prevent bombardment TF's from reaching your bases. You have a better understanding of the aircraft commits required. The last piece that needs to be in place is your reaction force (elastic defense) that has to be able to arrive within 2 days of his landing.

Don't commit forces unless you are prepared to be in, half commits only lose forces. You have at most 60 days until the next landing, and it could be a LOT less. Good Luck!

[adarbrauner]

ORIGINAL: el lobo

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Yes but how many depth charges attacks have you gained until know?

Lots of reported hits by a/c and some DC action but we won't know how effective they were until later.

Captain Haggard and I have been pretty open with each other about our sub attacks and losses during the game as it is fun to discuss and gibe each other. We are always interested in the sub vs sub attacks. As a note, there was only one successful sub vs sub torpedo attack during the war, and that was in the Atlantic.

El Lobo, there wewre a number of submarines against submarines attacks (and sinking) in the war, also in the pacific. Ther was even one instance of a Japanes sub torpdoing a US one, near Truk!



I don't think you have to retreat and give way now, in any way.

Rio's fleet is vulnerable now, very vulnerable. Particularly for surface assault, a la japanese. Odds are stiil at your advantage, if you've managed to gather and rally enough of your assets.

Please...

I understand fully that enemy subs are an issue, a bothering one to its least, but still.

[el lobo]

PACIFIC Jun 27, 1943 Turn 568

We get a good hit but Rio quickly returns the favor. His sinks, ours is still alive.

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Sub attack near Tinian at 108,95

Japanese Ships
SS I-170, hits 3

Allied Ships
CVE Prince William, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Quincy
CL Santa Fe
CL Nashville
CLAA San Juan
DD Converse
DD Waller
DD Taylor

Fuel storage explosion on CVE Prince William
SS I-170 launches 4 torpedoes at CVE Prince William

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Sub attack near Pagan at 111,90

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
DD Niizuki

Allied Ships
SS Tullibee

SS Tullibee launches 6 torpedoes at BB Hiei

[el lobo]

PACIFIC Jun 28, 1943 Turn 569

We take a run at Saipan. Lowpe was right. a day or two too late and we hit the PTs. Five eventually sunk.

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Day Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 109,92, Range 5,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Ise
BB Hyuga
DD Michishio
DD Yamagumo
DD Minegumo
DD Asagumo
DD Kasumi
DD Mutsuki

Allied Ships
PT-62
PT-63, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-64
PT-65

Poor visibility due to Thunderstorms
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms: 6,000 yards

[adarbrauner]

Kudos for the run.

I suspect though there's much more than Pts there, so maybe a run with 2 BBs only may not suffice, be careful....

Thuynderstorm may advantage greatly IJN in surface combat I think, what the experts say?

Good hit to the CV, 25 Wildcats less, this is CRITICAL for Rio at this stage.

Prince William? Is it English??

where are Yamato and Musashi? The Kongos? Where are the heavy cruisers?

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

El Lobo, there wewre a number of submarines against submarines attacks (and sinking) in the war, also in the pacific. Ther was even one instance of a Japanes sub torpdoing a US one, near Truk!

Capt. Haggard is an ol' Navy guy and somewhat of a history buff. He sent me an article quite awhile back about the sub vs sub torpedo attack. I don't have it anymore but it was very interesting. The article stated that this was the only successful sub vs sub torpedo attack so that is why I mentioned it.

However if you have more stories I would be interested and know Capt. Haggard would be very much also. You can post them or your sources here or PM them to me.

I don't think you have to retreat and give way now, in any way.

Rio's fleet is vulnerable now, very vulnerable. Particularly for surface assault, a la japanese. Odds are stiil at your advantage, if you've managed to gather and rally enough of your assets.

Please...

I understand fully that enemy subs are an issue, a bothering one to its least, but still.

I think you are right.

I needed to retreat the KBs as for now their air is not effective against his forces.

Rio and I have been discussing this attack, just the strategy of it, and how he has been planing this since day one. However he let slip the fact that he has taken precautions to guard against the KB. He said that we could discuss that latter or after the war. But I think we can pretty much figure it out. Pax alluded to it earlier, that he may load his ships with fighters. If you look at the CVE Prince William above, she had all fighters.

Which means that you are correct in that he is more vulnerable to surface attacks.

I have sent all my capital ships back to Chichi-jima to rearm. Three BBs will be in the yard for awhile but two more are a day out. I have taken pains to group the same class DDs together and once I have all of my SCTFs armed and organized, I will go at him again.

As I mentioned earlier, we are getting good hits and DC attacks on his subs. He moved them in around Pagan to go after the KBs and capital ship and now I am busy hitting them as fast as the AI will allow. If one in ten is effective, we are sending some back to the yard.

[adarbrauner]

CaptHaggard

"Too, I also want to take this opportunity to salute our opponent, El Lobo. That guy has had zero exposure to wargames prior to this campaign, neither boardgames or computer games. He's doing an amazing job and proving himself to be a most cunning and intelligent opponent."

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

CaptHaggard

"Too, I also want to take this opportunity to salute our opponent, El Lobo. That guy has had zero exposure to wargames prior to this campaign, neither boardgames or computer games. He's doing an amazing job and proving himself to be a most cunning and intelligent opponent."

Not quite adarbrauner. Go back and read my post #1087.

Capt. Haggard has been playing board games most of his life. He started with his brother when he was a kid with those games that used the paper hexagon shaped playing pieces.

However this is his first witp-ae experience and you are right, he is a good opponent.