Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (Allies)

[seydlitz_slith]

Here are the combat reports from the engagement:
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Pre-Invasion action off Sovetskaya Gavan - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

1594 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 118, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Nagato, Shell hits 133, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Chokai, Shell hits 78, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Takao, Shell hits 79, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Shiranui, Shell hits 24, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Hayashio, Shell hits 19, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Kofuku Maru, Shell hits 12, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Turusima Maru, Shell hits 1
xAKL Kurama Maru, Shell hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Nanko Maru, Shell hits 4, on fire
PB Taiko Maru, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Saiko Maru, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Myoken Maru, Shell hits 11, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Kure Maru #5, Shell hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Keiko Maru, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Kamitsu Maru, Shell hits 6, on fire
PB Edo Maru, Shell hits 6, heavy fires
PB Busho Maru, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Yamafuku Maru
DMS W-16

Japanese ground losses:
291 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Allied ground losses:
83 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

BB Mutsu firing at Sovetskaya Naval Fortress
BB Nagato firing at Sovetskaya Naval Fortress
CA Chokai firing at De-Castrinsky Naval Fortress
CA Takao firing at De-Castrinsky Naval Fortress
DD Shiranui firing at Sovetskaya Naval Fortress
DD Hayashio firing at De-Castrinsky Naval Fortress
152mm P-1892 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Kofuku Maru at 8,000 yards
BB Nagato fires to suppress enemy guns at 8,000 yards
130mm B-13 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Turusima Maru at 8,000 yards
BB Nagato fires to suppress enemy guns at 8,000 yards
130mm B-13 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Kurama Maru at 8,000 yards
BB Nagato fires to suppress enemy guns at 8,000 yards
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Kofuku Maru at 8,000 yards
BB Mutsu fires to suppress enemy guns at 8,000 yards
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Kofuku Maru at 8,000 yards
BB Mutsu fires to suppress enemy guns at 8,000 yards
152mm P-1892 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Nanko Maru at 8,000 yards
BB Mutsu fires to suppress enemy guns at 8,000 yards
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Kofuku Maru at 8,000 yards
BB Nagato fires to suppress enemy guns at 8,000 yards
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Kofuku Maru at 8,000 yards
BB Nagato fires to suppress enemy guns at 8,000 yards
PB Taiko Maru firing at enemy troops
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Taiko Maru at 2,000 yards
152mm P-1892 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Taiko Maru at 2,000 yards
130mm B-13 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Taiko Maru at 2,000 yards
PB Saiko Maru firing at enemy guns
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Saiko Maru at 2,000 yards
152mm P-1892 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Saiko Maru at 2,000 yards
130mm B-13 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Saiko Maru at 2,000 yards
PB Myoken Maru firing at enemy guns
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Myoken Maru at 2,000 yards
152mm P-1892 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Myoken Maru at 2,000 yards
130mm B-13 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Myoken Maru at 2,000 yards
PB Kure Maru #5 firing at enemy troops
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Kure Maru #5 at 2,000 yards
152mm P-1892 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Kure Maru #5 at 2,000 yards
130mm B-13 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Kure Maru #5 at 2,000 yards
120mm P1905 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Kure Maru #5 at 2,000 yards
PB Keiko Maru firing at enemy guns
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Keiko Maru at 2,000 yards
152mm P-1892 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Keiko Maru at 2,000 yards
130mm B-13 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Keiko Maru at 2,000 yards
PB Kamitsu Maru firing at enemy guns
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Keiko Maru at 2,000 yards
152mm P-1892 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Keiko Maru at 2,000 yards
130mm B-13 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Keiko Maru at 2,000 yards
PB Kamitsu Maru firing at enemy guns
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Kamitsu Maru at 2,000 yards
152mm P-1892 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Kamitsu Maru at 2,000 yards
130mm B-13 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Kamitsu Maru at 2,000 yards
120mm P1905 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Kamitsu Maru at 2,000 yards
PB Edo Maru firing at enemy guns
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Edo Maru at 2,000 yards
152mm P-1892 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Edo Maru at 2,000 yards
130mm B-13 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Edo Maru at 2,000 yards
PB Busho Maru firing at enemy guns
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Busho Maru at 2,000 yards
152mm P-1892 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Busho Maru at 2,000 yards
130mm B-13 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Busho Maru at 2,000 yards
120mm P1905 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging PB Busho Maru at 2,000 yards
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 4,000 yards
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 2,000 yards


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Invasion Support action off Sovetskaya Gavan - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

400 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
DD Amatsukaze, Shell hits 21, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Natsushio, Shell hits 32, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Kofuku Maru, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Chokai, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Mutsu, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Kurama Maru, Shell hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Nagato, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Takao, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Turusima Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire
xAKL Nanko Maru, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Yamafuku Maru
DMS W-16
xAK Boston Maru

Japanese ground losses:
151 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 6 (0 destroyed, 6 disabled)



DD Amatsukaze firing at Sovetskaya Naval Fortress
DD Natsushio firing at De-Castrinsky Naval Fortress
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Kofuku Maru at 10,000 yards
BB Mutsu fires to suppress enemy guns at 10,000 yards
120mm P1905 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Kurama Maru at 10,000 yards
BB Nagato fires to suppress enemy guns at 10,000 yards
152mm P-1892 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Kofuku Maru at 10,000 yards
BB Mutsu fires to suppress enemy guns at 10,000 yards
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Turusima Maru at 10,000 yards
BB Mutsu fires to suppress enemy guns at 10,000 yards
152mm P-1892 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Nanko Maru at 10,000 yards
BB Mutsu fires to suppress enemy guns at 10,000 yards
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Kofuku Maru at 10,000 yards
BB Mutsu fires to suppress enemy guns at 10,000 yards
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Kofuku Maru at 10,000 yards
BB Mutsu fires to suppress enemy guns at 10,000 yards
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 6,000 yards
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 2,000 yards

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Invasion Support action off Sovetskaya Gavan
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

44 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
xAKL Nanko Maru, Shell hits 24, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Hatsukaze
BB Mutsu, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Turusima Maru, Shell hits 6, on fire
xAK Yamafuku Maru



180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Nanko Maru at 9,000 yards
BB Mutsu fires to suppress enemy guns at 9,000 yards
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Nanko Maru at 9,000 yards
DD Hatsukaze fires to suppress enemy guns at 9,000 yards
152mm P-1892 CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Nanko Maru at 9,000 yards
BB Mutsu fires to suppress enemy guns at 9,000 yards
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Turusima Maru at 9,000 yards
BB Mutsu fires to suppress enemy guns at 9,000 yards
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Nanko Maru at 9,000 yards
BB Mutsu fires to suppress enemy guns at 9,000 yards
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Nanko Maru at 9,000 yards
BB Mutsu fires to suppress enemy guns at 9,000 yards
180mm B-1-K CD Gun Coastal Battery engaging xAKL Nanko Maru at 9,000 yards
DD Hatsukaze fires to suppress enemy guns at 9,000 yards


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COMBAT EVENTS FOR 04/20/42
SHIP CREWS PERFORM DAMAGE CONTROL
BB Mutsu sinks....
CA Takao sinks....
CA Tone sinks....
DD Natsushio sinks....
DD Hayashio sinks....
DD Shiranui sinks....
DD Amatsukaze sinks....
PB Busho Maru sinks....
PB Edo Maru sinks....
PB Kure Maru #5 sinks....
PB Myoken Maru sinks....
PB Taiko Maru sinks....
xAKL Kofuku Maru sinks....
xAKL Kurama Maru sinks....
DIVIDE CRIPPLED TFs


Followed by the loss of another battleship the next turn as I tried to pull out:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Apr 21, 42
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Sub attack near Sovetskaya Gavan at 124,44

Japanese Ships
xAK Macassar Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Yamafuku Maru
xAK Shozan Maru
xAK Sakido Maru
xAK Kiyoshima Maru
xAK Anzan Maru #2
xAK Mansyu Maru
xAK Siraha Maru
xAK Hague Maru
xAK Nanrei Maru
xAK London Maru
xAK Terukawa Maru
xAK Yasukawa Maru
xAK Kanko Maru
xAK Tenryu Maru
xAK Hitati Maru
xAK Kumagawa Maru
xAKL Tainichi Maru
DD Hatsukaze

Allied Ships
SS ShCh-109, hits 1



SS ShCh-109 launches 4 torpedoes at xAK Macassar Maru
DD Hatsukaze attacking submerged sub ....
DD Hatsukaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Hatsukaze attacking submerged sub ....
DD Hatsukaze attacking submerged sub ....
DD Hatsukaze is out of ASW ammo
DD Hatsukaze is out of ASW ammo
DD Hatsukaze is out of ASW ammo
DD Hatsukaze is out of ASW ammo
DD Hatsukaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub
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Submarine attack near Sovetskaya Gavan at 124,43

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS ShCh-127



BB Mutsu is sighted by SS ShCh-127
SS ShCh-127 launches 4 torpedoes at BB Mutsu


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COMBAT EVENTS FOR 04/21/42
NAVAL MOVEMENT PHASE
ADJUST SHIP FUEL
xAK Macassar Maru sinks....
NIGHT AIR OPERATIONS PHASE
AIRCRAFT LANDING
SHIP CREWS PERFORM DAMAGE CONTROL
BB Kongo sinks....
SURFACE COMBAT CHECK


It was actually Nagato that sank on day 1 after fighting the shore batteries and Mutsu that escaped the shore batteries with 90 sys, 90 fire, 7 flt, 1 eng only to be hit by 1 sub torpedo and lost the next day. BB Kongo was safely in port at Kure and was not part of the mission or I am certain that she would have been lost also. Hard to imagine those old Soviet guns being able to hit at 10K and doing enough damage to sink Japan's two best battleships.

[Swenslim]

Horrinle result......... why you didnt loaded to  allied side to get information about base CD defence ?
 
By the way, can you share airplane art mod you are using ?

[seydlitz_slith]

Well, to be honest, the battleships were there to handle the CD guns in the forts. There should have been no way that the older, smaller caliber guns without modern fire control should have done anything to the capital ships. The battleships and cruisers should have stayed outside the forts' engagement range and shelled them into oblivion. There is some type of flaw in the game mechanic that allowed this to occur.

[FatR]

I think, that including battleships in the amphibious TF was a mistake. They should have been in a separate bombardment TF. Just one turn back in my PBEM Japanese battleships levelled Port Moresby without taking a scratch (some escorts rammed defensive mines, if the intelligence is to be believed, but CD units were heavily disrupted and failed to score a single hit), despite 2 mobile CD units there. "Landing" and "bombardment" combat mechanics seem to provide diametrally opposed results.

[bklooste]

The CD results are craxy ... The interestign things is the BBs and CAs stood of the coast at 10K and the PBs closed  which is realistic.
 
However there are 2 issues
1) Lots of small guns doinf small damage but with LOTS of shots resulting in high damage.
2) The inability to surpress the defenders guns.
 
Im going to post this .

[CaptBeefheart]

Holy super shore batteries, Batman! That sure does seem extremely unrealistic.

[Ketza]

If you had it to do over again would you attack Russia again?

[seydlitz_slith]

ORIGINAL: Ketza

If you had it to do over again would you attack Russia again?

Uh, No....

I am enjoying the fight but the Russian forces are so strong that it is killing my ability to close the deal on other fronts. I have the Philippines, but I am still fighting for Singapore and the southwestern half of Borneo. I do not have the forces to land in Sumatra or Java as yet nor do I have any forces going after Rangoon or even north of Bangkok other than the pitiful Thai forces. With the committment that I am having to make on the Russian front, I have already started preparing my pacific defense lines on the assumption that I will not advance past Tulagi in the Solomons and may not get Java until late 1942 if at all.

The soviet cities and ports are all protected by forts and they seem to have crazy results when you engage. I purposely put battleships in the invasion TF to keep the guns supressed and keep the fire off the transports. Earlier, I had used them in bombardment TF separate from the invasion TF and the invasion TF at the other landings had taken poundings from not having heavy ships with them to supress the guns.

[seydlitz_slith]

The game has continued.
It is now turn 154, May 10, 1942.

My opponent claims that his Soviet forces are pretty much done for. I have fought two major Soviet Armies in the Voroshilov area over the past two months. I pushed his main army back into Vladivostok about a month ago, then moved to fight his second major army at Suchan a week ago, breaking his attempt to break the seige. Meanwhile I have bombed his ground forces every day without respite.

His Vladivostok force has advanced back into Voroshilov and is trying to conduct a breakthrough back to his own lines. His AV is down to about 1400 for 39 units. My forces are well supplied and even though they have been ground down by the long campaign, my main force is still over 4500 in the Voroshilov hex.

My air units pretty much have control of the sky. He still occaisionally tries to do surprise intercepts, but I lose more to operational losses than to air combat. As a result, I am starting to pull out some of my better fighter units. They are refitting in Japan and will soon head south to fight the AVG over Thailand.

My Betty and Nell units are for the most part based in the home islands flyingASW patrol. For most of the campaign they were flying bombing missions over Russia and as a result have excellent ground bombing skills now. However, with 20+ soviet and allied subs active around the home islands, I have all the units on ASW patrol. There is no faster way to gain experience in ASW than to have your crews sight live subs every turn, and in this target rich environment they are very quickly becoming the proficient sub hunters that I will need later in the war.

[seydlitz_slith]

In Mongolia, he had advanced as far south as Kalgan. I have now pushed him back and have recovered all lost ground.

[seydlitz_slith]

In China,
I am continuing my advance on Sian and have soundly beaten the Chinese army on each hex of the road to Sian.

[seydlitz_slith]

My war in Russia has been a major drain on my forces and as a result, the usual Japanese advance is well behind what you normally see. In fact, in Thailand I am actually on the defensive.

[seydlitz_slith]

In Sumatra, I initiated the invasion using my paratroopers. I now control an airfield and will begin flying in additional units. If I am lucky I will be able to take Palembang without a seaborne invasion.

Singapore still hasn't fallen but it is about ready to do so. I have the fort level down to 2 and his troops are about out of supply. It has been a long seige conducted only with the forces that started the war on the Malay Peninsula.

[seydlitz_slith]

I still have the southern half of Borneo to capture but I will get these in time over the summer months as I shift forces southwards. The same applies for Celebes, but I do have all of the Phillippines under my control and cleaned up.

[seydlitz_slith]

He is not the only one with an active sub force. I have a strong picket line off of California. About a week ago I got shots off at the Saratoga but missed.

I also have subs off Melbourne and Brisbane. Both have sunk a few ships including at least one loaded AP off Brisbane.

[seydlitz_slith]

The war has been hard on my surface combatants.
The borked CD gun routine cost me 4 battleships, two heavy cruisers, and 6 destroyers at Sovetska Gavan. Very frustrating but war is war....sometimes the results are not to your liking but you must continue.

[seydlitz_slith]

Quite a few destroyers lost also.

[LoBaron]

seydlitz, great to see you back! Looking forward to progress on the SU frontlines. [:)]
 
 
I hope your life is back to normal, or at least as normal as can possibly get.

[crsutton]

Yes, welcome back. This has been in interesting AAR. Very fun to follow. The most amazing thing to me is how passive your opponent has been in the other theaters. By May of 1942, if left alone, the Allies should be growing very strong with- plenty of aircraft stockpiled, pilots trained, old BBs repaired, carriers upgraded. The Australian and Indian armies should be in top shape with many powerful armor units. He should be slamming you hard somewhere else if for anything else just to prevent you getting any sort of rest and to prevent you from building up your reserves. After watching this AAR, I think as the Allies I would welcome an active front with the Russians. I think if I were him, I would fully commit to a fight in the DEI but really he should just start hitting you anywhere he perceives a gap.
 
 
How has not holding the DEI affected your economy. Are you short of gas?

[seydlitz_slith]

Well, in our previous WITP game I was pretty good as Japan at playing possum and then smacking him hard as soon as he showed where his forces are. He has learned that lesson well and has played a very patient game while he builds up.

That said, he has started a major offensive in Thailand and is knocking on the door at Bangkok. Also, ABDAFLOT is still out there and has turned up four or five times to spank Japanese invasion forces. If he knows with certainty that my carriers are elsewhere then he quickly becomes active wherever they are not. Accordingly, I make sure that my carriers do not give their location away for any length of time, then I have them disappear into the mist again. My subs are also active in many places.

Believe it or not, but fuel has not been a problem, nor have resources. I have good supplies of both in the home islands. I have avoided the tendency to sail the whole fleet all over the map and that has saved a bunch of fuel. After I take the russians' oil pipeline I won't be entirely dependent on Sumatra or Java although I still plan to take both places.

One thing that I have avoided is throwing units out on the perimeter as fast as I can advance. Instead, Tulagi is my southernmost point of advance. I am busy building my defensive perimeter earlier and plan to be in a better position to defend this perimeter than in games where I am scattered. I am building bases along the north coast of New Guinea, I have built Manus into a huge secret base that will serve the role that Truk normally serves in addition to Truk and Rabaul. I am already fortifying Guam, Saipan, Tinian, and Chichi Jima. When he comes, he will stumble into an interlocking defense line that is maxxed out and that offers good interior lines for the Japanese forces. I am also preparing the Phillippines so that I will be able to defend there later in the war.