WitE 2

[Aurelian]

I wouldn't. Russia was *not* going to surrender. Surrender meant extermination, and they knew it.

And a coup wasn't going to happen either. A regime that lost territory equal to the United States up to and past the Mississippi by 1942, to say nothing of the millions lost, wasn't going to have a coup.

The army wasn't in any shape to launch one. They didn't do it during the purges, certainly not going to do it during a war. The NKVD wasn't about to either.

[Naughteous Maximus]

I do not know if its already been mentioned, but I would like to see the Balkans included in WitE 2. It can start of as partisans popping up until the Soviets get close then become regular military units. The Balkan's eventually became part of the eastern front historically and to totally avoid it in the game would make the game less authentic. I would also like to see a trigger that would bring the Bulgarians into the game as a Soviet ally.

[RedLancer]

The Balkans are included as a Theatre Box.

As to Bulgarians I agree with the sentiment but I'm not sure whether their involvement will be included at release. To be honest too little impact for too much effort. The basic setup of counters and consideration in the data is there. Perhaps a good what if for a scenario expansion.

[Grotius]

WITE2 sounds very exciting. I really enjoyed WITW, and my impression from this thread is that many of the features of WITW will be weaved into WITE2.

Will the air-war features of WITW be adopted by WITE2? (I'm sorry if this question is already answered in this thread; I read back a few months and couldn't find a discussion of it, and I can't figure out how to search the thread.)

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

WITE2 sounds very exciting. I really enjoyed WITW, and my impression from this thread is that many of the features of WITW will be weaved into WITE2.

Will the air-war features of WITW be adopted by WITE2? (I'm sorry if this question is already answered in this thread; I read back a few months and couldn't find a discussion of it, and I can't figure out how to search the thread.)

yes, the process of setting up air directives and them being run before the land phase is part of the WitE2 design.

[Grotius]

Glad to hear it! I really enjoyed the air war in WITW. Thanks for replying.

[Naughteous Maximus]

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

The Balkans are included as a Theatre Box.

As to Bulgarians I agree with the sentiment but I'm not sure whether their involvement will be included at release. To be honest too little impact for too much effort. The basic setup of counters and consideration in the data is there. Perhaps a good what if for a scenario expansion.

If you guys cannot include the Balkans other than in a Theatre Box, at least, make the Balkan map area accessible in the editor for those people who want to create mods or new scenarios. I already have a complete Bulgarian OOB with artwork. How big will the map be compared to WitE?

[821Bobo]

How big will the map be compared to WitE?

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer
It's the same map as WitW but we are working on some necessary improvements. Double rail lines and how we show variable road quality (which can now be set by individual hex and not just country) are currently quite important.

It is bigger than in WitE.

[Stelteck]

I'am not sûre WITE need "more ground", more theater more detail, more air war, bigger etc.....

Do not forget it is first a game.

The things to play with are already enormous.
As i count on my soviet game end 1941 :
47 army HQ, 40 cavalry divisions, 359 rifle divisions, 100 rifle brigages, 93 tank brigades, 55 Air bases.

If work have to be done, it is to reduce the workload of having to manage so much things each turn.

I know that :
- Air bases system is reworked for easier use (good).
- Tank brigades converted to support unit (good).
- Rifle brigade i do not know.

For support units, i think the game may concentrate on fewer, big, meaningfull support units instead of having tons of small support units.
Same thing for air squadrons.

For common units like division, i think it could be a good idea to increase the bonus of static units (for example decrease in low level attrition, bonus to fortification, defensive bonus), to encourage people to set part of the front to sleep when there is not so much action there and help reducing the workload of a turn.

Turn processing time is also very important for many people.

[821Bobo]

Rifle brigades, AT, etc. can be converted to support units as well.

[Stelteck]

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

Rifle brigades, AT, etc. can be converted to support units as well.

Good news !!

[RedLancer]

Once again I feel the need to highlight that we are still deep in alpha and much can still change.

Stelteck's comment are spot on. Complexity and processing power are key considerations on why some elements are placed in Theatre Boxes even though we have the area on the map. We do have the ability to set in the editor those regions that are assigned to which theatre box. For Bulgaria the key element is whether we hook up the code to allow the Bulgarian counters to be in play. Personally I would like this to be the case for what if wargaming. However it is a nice to have rather than an essential element of delivering the game.

[BletchleyGeek]

Just to share a few thoughts following up my posts a couple pages back, after having played a bit more of the latest versions of WitW:

* The logistics and combat engine are now speaking to each other more clearly, and you get quite a fair bit of feedback. The Torch to Tunisia campaign is a very good testbed for that. Certainly, Lybia is much more bare than Russia west of the Urals, but having limited communications and a much bigger density of forces (like 10 times more) *should* put quite a brake on the tempo of offensive operations, unless significant planning is done and preparation is conducted. I also liked a lot having to make choices of who was getting priority with supplies - there was a real sense of scarcity!

* With the above in place, then certainly, having shorter turns matters less. WitE was a quite deep game, and WitW (and by extension WitE2) will be an even deeper game.

* The distribution of combat results is way, way less extreme. Or perhaps that's because the experience/morale levels are more even?

* Routing seems to be less extreme as well.

* I think that ground combat assumes that the defending player wants to defend very badly any terrain their units are sitting on. Perhaps having a setting that allows the player to set the behaviour of his units in such a way that these would attempt to break contact when facing crazy odds would be a good thing. The losses tolerance threshold of TOAW is perhaps a model for such a thing. This would go a long way to dispel concerns about the ability of the defending player to setup an elastic defense. Of course, there needs to be a chance that by trying to retreat things get "worse" for the defender - that's why elastic defense requires well trained and organised forces.

Just that for now. I am quite impressed by the current state of WitW, even if there's still stuff I don't really understand regarding air operations.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

...

* The distribution of combat results is way, way less extreme. Or perhaps that's because the experience/morale levels are more even?

...

I think its also a product of a fairly accurate pre-attack indicator of the likely actual odds. In a way WiTW is a bit like WiTE when played with the alt-cv rules. Apart from reserve reaction there is much less variability between indicated cv ratio and actual.

The few times it seems to be out is due to the estimate not really capturing low supply/ammo so that is something you still need to guess around or the effect (good and bad) of certain unit types in certain terrain.

Its far less a product of rough heuristics than estimating likely final odds is in WiTE?

I'd agree that the Torch scenarios are good training grounds for supply in the more marginal areas of the map.

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: loki100
I think its also a product of a fairly accurate pre-attack indicator of the likely actual odds. In a way WiTW is a bit like WiTE when played with the alt-cv rules. Apart from reserve reaction there is much less variability between indicated cv ratio and actual.

Thanks for sharing that insight, Loki.

ORIGINAL: loki100
The few times it seems to be out is due to the estimate not really capturing low supply/ammo so that is something you still need to guess around or the effect (good and bad) of certain unit types in certain terrain.

Indeed, that always has been important.

ORIGINAL: loki100
Its far less a product of rough heuristics than estimating likely final odds is in WiTE?

That's for sure

[LiquidSky]

Final odds is also determined by the intermediate combat sequence. For example, a dug in Mountain Regiment...in a mountain hex, will show a very high CV for defence.

If you attack him with 6 infantry divisions...you may start with a 1 - 4 odds ratio...but end up winning the combat with a final odds of like 10-1 or more.

That's because the artillery..etc of the 6 divisions will do a lot more damage to the smaller unit then the small unit can do back in return..

[Naughteous Maximus]

Will you be able to attach support units to the Axis allies at a divisional level as you can to the German divisions?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Naughteous Maximus

Will you be able to attach support units to the Axis allies at a divisional level as you can to the German divisions?

yes, and to Soviet divisions.

whether its the best use of such resources is a different question

[LiquidSky]

Ahh..I remember in good 'ol War in Russia I would attach all the axis minors divisions to the panzer corps for them to be dragged all over Russia....by the end of the year, they would all have decent experience from all the battles the panzer corps won.

The game has come a long way from the early 90's

[Manstein63]

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky


Ahh..I remember in good 'ol War in Russia I would attach all the axis minors divisions to the panzer corps for them to be dragged all over Russia....by the end of the year, they would all have decent experience from all the battles the panzer corps won.

The game has come a long way from the early 90's

It was the first computer wargame that I bought, endless hours of fun interspersed with frenetic turns of Elite, Happy days indeded.

Anyway to get back on topic, is there any chance that fortification units will be country specific so you can build Axis minor country forts in Russia as you are able to do with German forts

Manstein63