Never Thought I'd Start Another One - tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J)

[PaxMondo]

13 Nov 42

Sub War

At Adak, I see only 1 sub today. In the past, there have been 3 subs there. I can't hit it though.

Have you tried putting a CS into a patrol loop nearby with its Jakes on ASW? Add a few SC's into an ASWTF ... it should work ....

[Mike Solli]

13 Nov 42

Sub War

At Adak, I see only 1 sub today. In the past, there have been 3 subs there. I can't hit it though.

Have you tried putting a CS into a patrol loop nearby with its Jakes on ASW? Add a few SC's into an ASWTF ... it should work ....

I've got more DMS arriving, originally to take care of mines, but now to be an ASW TF. I have Chitose south of the Aleutians on naval search duty, but I can move them north and put half on ASW duty. Great idea!

[Mike Solli]

Some of you may have noticed that I've been silent the past week. Ted was out of the country during that time and arrived back home yesterday. We've been in communication but he was busy. Anyway, he'll get the turn back to me after his jet lag subsides.

During that time, I caught up on the game and spent a lot of time on another crazy idea of mine. Let's start at the beginning...

Back in 1984, a war game company called GDW, came out with a roll playing game called Twilight 2000. At that time, it was set in the year 2000 in the midst of a future WW III. I started collecting the base game and the expansions as they came out but didn't do anything with them other than read the rules. I was in grad school at the time and had no time to put into it. I graduated in 1986 and got a job at Ohio State. In 1988, I joined the Guard and went off to basic training. When I came back, I finally had some time to put into the game and had a workmate and his friend who were interested in trying it out. Soon after, another guy began working with us and joined the group. We played the heck out of the game, but it was a lot of work for me. I had to track everything and had multiple spreadsheets (kind of like WitP ) to do it. Eventually, kids came and the game ended.

When my son was old enough to play (early 2000s) we got another group together and played for a while, but life took the front seat again. I deployed to Kosovo with the Guard in 2004 and the original WitP came out while I was at the mob station and this infernal game took over my free time. Twilight 2000 faded into obscurity. I never looked back.

Then, in 2021, a Swedish company redesigned Twilight 2000 making it much easier to manage, and to make it even easier, created a module for a sight online called Foundry VTT, which basically puts everything online and allows people to play online. The GM manages everything from his computer and can either have the maps and characters online or have a physical game on a table. My (now grown and married) son was really excited and got a group together including my son, his brother-in-law, my son-in-law, my brother-in-law, my nephew and a friend from church (of all places) and I would be the GM. We tried but the instructions for Foundry were dismal, to say the least. I couldn't figure out how to create scenes in the system. We had 2 sessions and I stopped it because it wasn't working on my end. The guys were disappointed but understood.

Forward to about a month ago. I got the itch to try Twilight 2000 again and pulled all the stuff out. I fired up Foundry and scoured the internet for videos on how to use it. Between those and a Facebook page dedicated to the new Twilight 2000, I finally figured it out and am creating scenarios and random events for use in the game. I spent the last week focusing on this game. I hope to get things going in the next month or so. Foundry is really nice because the scenarios can use maps that are provided in the game and have FOW. Each player character can only see what's visible to him, not the entire map. Very cool. Also, the program will roll dice when a character shoots and apply damage to the target as well as track ammunition expenditures and all that detail that I used to have to do manually.

We can play when we all have time and from our own homes. That's nice because most of the guys are 30+ miles away from me and my brother-in-law is 500 miles away.

So, that's what I've been doing the past week. Of course, WitP is my priority. Twilight 2000 is something I've decided to allocate no more that 1 hour a day to work on, plus a two hour session per week (at most).

Have any of you guys heard of Twilight 2000? It's a fun game for those of you who were in the military during the Cold War.

[Anthro03]

Twilight 2000 was one of those games I followed that I could never find players for. Played maybe once or twice. My Gaming group was Star Fleet Battles. An accounting game wrapped in a starship simulator.

[sanch]

Have any of you guys heard of Twilight 2000? It's a fun game for those of you who were in the military during the Cold War.

Totally missed that one. I recognize GDW - and had most of their Europa series

[zebrazwo]

Yes game designers workshop, if I remember right.

Believe they did a role playing game called Gamma World. Good fun.

[Mike Solli]

GDW made a lot of really good games. I, too, owned most of the Europa series. I played the heck out of France 40 and played the Eastern Front game with Scorched Earth and The Urals twice. Since I retired, I realized that I could never play all of the games I owned and never played in my lifetime. I separated them into 3 categories: Played or never played that I will play, those I will never play (again) and those I can't bear to part with. I've been selling off the middle category. Unfortunately, that included the Europa series.

We're back at it. I owe you guys a couple of turns.

[sfatula]

Twilight 2000 was one of those games I followed that I could never find players for. Played maybe once or twice. My Gaming group was Star Fleet Battles. An accounting game wrapped in a starship simulator.

Ooooh, loved Starfleet Battles!

We actually played the massive boardgame War in the Pacific. I think I still have it.

Looks like I didn't miss anything. Got a right reverse shoulder replacement so been out of house a bit.

[Mike Solli]

Twilight 2000 was one of those games I followed that I could never find players for. Played maybe once or twice. My Gaming group was Star Fleet Battles. An accounting game wrapped in a starship simulator.

Ooooh, loved Starfleet Battles!

We actually played the massive boardgame War in the Pacific. I think I still have it.

Looks like I didn't miss anything. Got a right reverse shoulder replacement so been out of house a bit.

Never played (or owned) SFB. Heard good things about it though. I envy you that you got to play that monster SPI game. I owned it for a long time but never had opponents (or space) to set up something that big. I eventually sold it, sadly. This game, I believe, is better and much more playable.

Shoulder replacement. Ouch. Hope you're healing well.

On to catching up, again...

[Mike Solli]

14 Nov 42

Sub War
The midget sub Ha-11 was launched to Rennell Island from an adjacent hex and found an invasion convoy (for Rennell Island). She launched her torpedoes against CLAA Atlanta but unfortunately missed. She easily survived the DC attack. I learned something new. I always had an issue with midget subs on missions like this concerning the home base of the sub. I finally found the solution. The home base doesn't matter. The carrier sub will remain 1 hex away and the sub, if it survives the attack (it's on remain on station orders), will then be given orders to merge with the carrier sub TF. Fuel is no issue in this case. The midget sub has enough fuel to perform the mission and get back to the carrier sub. They merge and the TF returns to base to refuel, rearm and repair (if necessary) the midget sub. Works like a charm.

The I-169 put a torpedo into a fuel laden TK just east of Auckland. There was no word of her sinking but loaded TKs rarely survive. I'll chalk this one up as sunk.

The I-19, on duty keeping tabs on Pearl Harbor, got lucky and found a cargo convoy. She put 2 torpedoes into an xAK sinking her.

Not a bad day for the sub fleet. Too bad Atlanta got away.

On the down side, the Dutch sub O20 sank a Yuen N cargo ship off Samah. I have some naval search out of Samah but I need some surface ASW there as well. I'm moving the two SCs at Hong Kong there and the reinforcing SC (see below) will be stationed at Hong Kong. I need a LOT more of them.

5 Fleet

Two BBs bombarded Adak killing a few squads and adding to the airfield damage. The BBs are starting to take more sys damage. I sent 2 of the 6 (Nagato took 2 Catalina torpedoes and is repairing damage at Attu) back to the Home Islands for repairs.

4 Fleet

Nothing to report.

SE Fleet

Over 100 P-39Ds strafed today. I want to ambush them with 84 Nicks and 31 (or 62) Zeros, all at once. The Zeros are ready but one of the Nick sentai just got replacement aircraft at Truk and is repairing them. I'll wait until the Nicks are ready to go.

Still no enemy 4E bomber activity...

SRA

Three Oscars made it to Dili to LRCAP against the Beaufort VIIIs that came again. The first flight of 4 lost 3 of their number. The second flight of 3 came in unhindered. They're going after the airfield and caused a single runway damage. Not sure why he's bothering. The Ichiki Det. is the garrison. They have plenty of engineers who are repairing the little damage that occurs. The engineers spend the rest of their time working on forts (currently 1.08).

I'm not sure why he's interested in Dili. Its airfield is 1(6) with a port of 1(1). On the west side of the island is Koepang, whose airfield is 4(6) with a port of 3(1). There's a NG at Koepang. I'm moving 65 Bde to Dili and will move Ichiki Det. to reinforce the NG at Koepang.

Burma

Four CAa and 3 CLs bombarded Chittagong today, where a LOT of enemy fighters were stationed. It was pretty successful:

Hurricane IIc Trop: 4 destroyed, 133(!) damaged
P-40K: 3 destroyed, 19 damaged
P-40E: 3 destroyed, 24 damaged
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed, 20 damaged

Chittagong's airfield is showing 52% damaged!

That should cut back on any fighter activity Ted was planning for a little while.

China

The 13 Army main body (5 infantry divisions and 10 artillery units) arrived at Chungking. The artillery units will bombard tomorrow.

Other Stuff

Reinforcements
82 IFC (9 Recon), 51 Air Division, Manchukuo, training
SC Ch-39, ASW, to Hong Kong

[Mike Solli]

15 Nov 42

Sub War

Today, something pretty rare happened: sub on sub action. The Dutch KXVIII put a torpedo into the I-174 in the Solomons. I figured she was done for, but she survived, at least so far. Her damage is 44-67(29)-29(19)-0. She'll attempt to limp to port.

5 Fleet

Two BBs and 2 CLs bombarded Adak killing about a dozen squads, damaging the base further and destroying a little supply.

4 Fleet

Nothing to report.

SE Fleet

The P-39Ds swept again today. Still waiting for the second Nick sentai to repair its replacement aircraft...

SRA

A handful of Oscars met more Beaufort VIIIs over Dili shooting down 3 more. Keep 'em coming!

Burma

The bombardment TF from yesterday was on remain on station orders. That was a mistake, but there was no harm done. I had them bombard again (with little ammo remaining). They managed to kill another plane and damage 19. They're headed home now. By the way, Chittagong's airfield damage is down to 43%. There must be a LOT of engineers there.

China

My tanks hit the former Neikiang garrison, chewing them up some more and pushing them toward Chengtu. My intent is to surround Chengtu from 5 hexes and push the garrison into the mountains.

I bombarded Chungking killing 2 dozen squads. That's not bad, but at that rate the garrison will most likely last the entire war. I bought out 9 artillery units from Manchukuo to send to Chungking. After I did that I discovered 9 Division, which has 80 experience. It's a really good unit. I decided to send it to Adak, but it'll take me 2 weeks to get enough PPs to buy it. I would have had enough had I found it before buying out the artillery. I guess that'll work.

Other Stuff

Reinforcement
18 Field Construction Battalion - 2 Area Army, headed to Burma.

[Mike Solli]

16 Nov 42

Sub War

The I-31 sank, due to a hit by an SBD. I neglected to mention that the US carriers are still floating around to the SW of the Solomons. I can't seem to catch them with my subs and this one paid the price.

5 Fleet

Not much happened today. I combined the 4 BBs and 2 CLs into 1 bombardment TF. Let's see what that does. I have 4 AKEs at Attu so it doesn't take nearly as long to replenish. They were going all the way back to Paramushiro-jima.

4 Fleet

Nothing to report.

SE Fleet

I think the US carriers are covering multiple landings at dot bases to the SW and W of the Solomons to build up airfields. It's inevitable. Rabaul is still impregnable to his Air Force. He wants to have air fields near the bases he plans on invading. That's fine with me. I'll be able to ambush him on occasion. I hope he spends the next year focusing on this AO.

Fifty-seven 4E bombers hit Tulagi today. Well, at least half of his 4E bomber force is still in this AO. That's good to know. I'm keeping tabs on his bombing/strafing missions to look for places to ambush him.

I'm still waiting for the Nick sentai in Truk to repair more aircraft. Right now, 40 of 46 are repaired. Once 42 are repaired, it'll fly south and I'll set up a big ambush somewhere.

SRA

The Beauforts bombing Dili came in at 1k feet. I lowered the LRCAPing Oscars to 3k feet to see if they intercept tomorrow.

Burma

I'm bombarding the frontline just about every day now with my artillery. Interestingly, one of the British divisions defending withdrew up the road. Are they guarding it from me cutting it off? If so, Ted was reading my mind. I have a tank regiment crawling through the jungle to do just that. They'll continue to the jump off hex and then I'll see what the situation is.

China

No bombardment of Chungking today due to a lack of supply. I have supply coming from everywhere to Shanghai and Hong Kong. Over 100k. Chungking will need a lot of supply, but it'll be worth it in the end.

Other Stuff

Reinforcement
DD Wakazuki, Akitsuki class, KB escort

[sfatula]

I envy you that you got to play that monster SPI game. I owned it for a long time but never had opponents (or space) to set up something that big. I eventually sold it, sadly. This game, I believe, is better and much more playable.

Shoulder replacement. Ouch. Hope you're healing well

The trick with the space was to wall mount the maps and use magnets on the pieces, so no floor space.

But no doubt this is so much better. The board game was the best you could do in it's day.

Shoulder replacement (reverse) is one day of cramps and 10/10 pain, and then not really bad. Rotator cuff is many months of a lot of pain. I'll take one horrible day only any time!

[erstad]

The trick with the space was to wall mount the maps and use magnets on the pieces, so no floor space.

Ping pong table overlaid with a couple 4x8 sheets of plywood worked! (Assuming an available basement...) Although we never came close to finishing a campaign.

[Mike Solli]

I still envy you guys. Just seeing it laid out with counters on it would have been glorious!

Sorry for the delay. Something hit me Sunday. Don't know what but I was out of it the entire day. Just laid up on the couch. Back at it today. Glad I didn't try to do a turn. Ted would have won the war in a day.

[Mike Solli]

17 Nov 42

Sub War

The I-169 torpedoed and sank a TK loaded with fuel off Norfolk Island. Double prizes!

5 Fleet

Quiet day here. Ted isn't using her artillery any more. My bombers didn't fly and no BBs arrived today.

4 Fleet

Nothing to report.

SE Fleet

His carriers disappeared to the south.

Sortie report (Skip this part if you have a weak stomach. The numbers are scary.):

Fighters:
P-40K - 25
P-38F - 21
P-38G - 20

FB:
P-39D - 81

2E Bombers:
B-25C - 20 (for a short time)

4E Bombers:
B-17E - 44
B-17F - 33
B-24D - 69

That's a lot of 4E bombers! I was hoping they'd appear so I could ambush them and I got my wish. There were 6 sorties against Rabaul. I wish it had happened a day later. There would have been an additional 42 Nicks present. That's ok. They're there now in case he comes back. Here's the run down by sortie for Rabaul:

Sortie #1:

15 A6M2 Zero (upgrading the other unit to A6M5)
6 A6M2-N Rufe - They've gotten 6 kills and have only 2 losses with a single wounded pilot. They shot down a B-17 (over Buna if I remember correctly).
30 Ki-44-IIa Tojo
42 Ki-45 KAIa Nick

versus

21 P-38F Lightning (No losses)
17 B-25C Mitchell - 10 Killed + 1 Flack kill, I'll bet we don't see this model again.
5 B-24D Liberator - 3 Killed

Sortie #2 (Abbreviated because this would be a mile long. If you want details, let me know and I'll go back to the other version.)

6 Zero
2 Rufe
17 Tojo
32 Nick

versus

5 B-17E Liberator - 1 Killed

Sortie #3

5 Zero
14 Tojo
28 Nick

versus

3 B-25C - 1 Killed
4 B-24D
11 B-17F

Sortie #4

9 Tojo
13 Nick

versus

30 B-24D
8 B-17E

Sortie #5

No Japanese fighters are still airborne.

versus

12 B-24D
8 B-17E

Sortie #6

No Japanese fighters are still airborne.

7 B-24D

Total Allied sorties:

Ftr: 66
2E: 20 (11 shot down + 1 flak kill)
4E: 91 (Not too bad, right? You forgot to add in the 64 B-17/24s that hit Tulagi. )

Here's an interesting observation of the fighters:

There's more info that I can easily put in here. Here's the format:

Sortie Starting # ftrs/Decrease from previous sortie/Friendly shot down/enemy shot down

1 93 / 0 / 3 / 13 -21 enemy fighters escorting 5 bombers
2 57 / 36 / 0 / 1 -6 bombers
3 47 / 10 / 6 / 2 -45 fighters escorting 18 bombers
4 22 / 25 / 0 / 0 -38 bombers
There were no Japanese fighters airborne in the last 2 sorties.

So, the ineffective amount by sortie was 36, 10. 25, 22. Also, keep in mind that each sortie starts (after the first one) many of the planes are damaged, but not enough to send them home. So, the mounting damage accelerates the "decrease from previous sortie" rate. Looking at the sorties, only #2 was a gimme, and only 1 of the 6 B-17Es was shot down. The fighters were:

21 P-38F - Sortie 1, none shot down
25 P-40K - Sortie 2, none shot down
20 P-38G - Sortie 2, none shot down

That was against The Ki-44-IIa, Ki-45 KAIa, A6M2-N and A6M2. The Rufe is basically a poor Zero and the Zero is pre-war.

The Nick is the best of the lot. I think that's because of the armor and high durability of 36. In comparison, the durability of the Tojo is 28 and the Rufe/Zero are 22. Going down a rabbit hole...

Oh yeah, one last thing. The only good thing about Rabaul was that only Sortie 4 caused any damage and it was 1 airbase and 1 runway. With 181 engineers, I was not concerned about lasting damage to the airfield. I was concerned about fist fights among the engineers over who got to repair the damage.

SRA

My Oscars saw his Beaufighter VIIIs but never engaged. They were at 1K and my fighters were at 3k.

Burma

I bombarded the front line today, but they must have targeted jungle, because 5, yes 5 disrupted squads. What a waste of supply.

China

Something new today. Nine SB-IIIs bombed (unsuccessfully) my tanks headed to Chengtu. They were escorted by 4 I-15s and 11 I-16s. Tomorrow, I'll send in the Zeros to gain some more experience.

I just looked at their stats. The I-16 has armor! Didn't expect to see that. There is something interesting though. The max altitude for the I-15 is 17,030 and for the I-16 is 24,620. The Zero is 29,070. I'll have to stock that away for future reference. He bombed at 5k, so I'll come in at 7k or so to tear into them from above.

Other Stuff

The B6N1 Jill R&D factory completed repairing. It was originally the B5N2 Kate (size 15) was shut off for months then upgraded to B6N1 after I let it sit idle for months. I eventually realized that I could convert it to the B6N1 and it would repair 1 every day. When fully repaired, I "upgraded" it to the B6N2 R&D to add to that research. Anyway, that's history now because it's fully repaired. I now have 7 Jill R&D factories. The B6N2 will become operational 1/21/43. I will let 3 factories become operational and the remaining 4 will continue to work on the B6N2a, which will become operational 9/16/43. On that date, I will convert the 4 R&D factories to something else and upgrade the 3 B6N2 factories to B6N2a. Note that this is all subject to change due to the ebbs and flows of the war.

[sfatula]

Wow, his bombing was amazingly ineffective so Rabaul easily lives! So, if I read right, he lost 16 bombers + any ops losses and you lost 9 fighters? Yeah 42 more would have made a big difference but had you had not had those Nicks there, suspect disaster! I bet he had a lot of damaged ones too.So, if they come back a lot less, well, he could always add those Tulagi ones so maybe not! I guess the results are ok. It's gonna take a lot to close it. Though non flyable planes can be killed now, Can you ship transport them out to another base?

[Mike Solli]

Wow, his bombing was amazingly ineffective so Rabaul easily lives! So, if I read right, he lost 16 bombers + any ops losses and you lost 9 fighters? Yeah 42 more would have made a big difference but had you had not had those Nicks there, suspect disaster! I bet he had a lot of damaged ones too.So, if they come back a lot less, well, he could always add those Tulagi ones so maybe not! I guess the results are ok. It's gonna take a lot to close it. Though non flyable planes can be killed now, Can you ship transport them out to another base?

I think (but don't know for sure) that forts may decrease damage to airfields and possibly planes from bombing. If someone knows for sure, please holler. Rabaul's forts are at level 4.

I'm not worried about my fighter planes, just the pilots. I 136 fully trained (70+ Exp/70+ A2A) IJA pilots but only 9 pilots for the IJN that are fully trained. I can pull some that are 68-69 exp and 70+A2A from some training units if I need to, but I like to get them all to 70+/70+. I've got some fighter units that are fully trained but training sweep to increase their defense skill for both the IJA and IJN. I have extra pilots in all my front line units so there's a buffer. Here is some important information on what I have a Rabaul for next turn:

Zero: 23 planes available, 1 pilot was killed.
Tojo: 22 planes available, 3 pilots were wounded.
Rufe: 9 planes available, no pilots lost.
Nick: 62 planes available, 1 pilot killed, 5 pilots wounded, brought in another 42 plane sentai today (so 20 are available from the sentai that was there yesterday).

[BBfanboy]

Forts do mitigate damage from enemy attacks. The calculations approximate things like having a sturdier runway base, revetments for airplanes (so a bomb can only damage one aircraft), camouflage for aircraft, hangars and airfield equipment, etc. I'm sure the Air Support and general Support squads also benefit from better trenches!
You will notice that if you build forts first, AF construction goes more slowly than in a no-fort hex. And if you build the AF first, forts take a long time to build. That's because the fort level must at least match the size of the AF and Port at the base. Forts can be build higher than AF size but I am not sure if they add any additional runway/services protection, they just cover more area with nothing to protect but troops.

[Mike Solli]

Thanks, BB! I appreciate the info. I never realized that fort vs. the rest of the infrastructure increase the time to build depending on what is built first, but that makes sense.

Question for the group: To do the CVS to CVL conversions, which base is used and what is the required naval repair level?

Thanks!