Forlorn Hopes: The Japanese Respond

[Q-Ball]

If you shut down A6M5c, just leave it off for now. You need a bunch in early '45, but not at the moment. Switching it to something else would burn supply.

Didn't know about the rebuilds. I suppose you have to leave vehicles on for that. You'll get a better idea where you stand once you get 2nd Tank Div. You definitely want that at full strength.

Someone smarter than I can calculate how many DD's you can build vs. how many airplanes. But you may have to start making those types of calculations. If your HI stockpile doesn't start to build with these changes, you definitely will, as your Oil supply is going to start to run dry once he starts bombing it.

EDIT: I got curious, so I actually read the manual! Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but if an HI Factory runs, it produces 1 supply and 1.33 fuel for every 1 Resource and 1 Oil. Additionally, it will burn 1 Resource and 2 Oil for every HI point. The way the manual reads this is IN ADDITION to the supply production. Thus, 100 HI Factory will consume 200 Resources and 300 Oil per turn, and produce 100 Supply, 133 Fuel, and add 100 HI to the Resource Pool. THUS, you will gain 1 HI for every 3 Oil burnt off.

For Naval Construction, 3 HI is used for every Naval Shipyard Point, and 1 Nav point used per day for each point of durability in the ship being built.

The last 3 months of a Momi-class DD will burn 630 HI Points (7 x 90 days x 3 HI points). 630 HI points will also build 35 Fighters, or 17 2E bombers. The last 3 months of an Amagi-class CV will cost the same as 315 Fighters, and that is if you don't Accelerate it. If you Accelerate it, that will cost the same as 1.5 times as much, or 472 Fighters.

The 5670 HI points on the last 3 non-accelerated months of that CV would also produce 1000 Vehicles or Armaments, enough to equip a Reinforcement Infantry Division, or replenish some armored units.

I personally think 315 fighters are going to help you more than that CV if you back is against the wall on HI points.

If you really want those DD's, I would take a look at your Sub Production. Subs burn ALOT of Naval Shipyard, because the Durability is very high. Think about turning off certain boats, and produce in the following priority (sorry, don't have class names up):
1. SEAPLANE BOATS: To me, these are top priority.
2. LONG-RANGE CRUISING BOATS: I-52 and whatnot, no plane but otherwise good boats
3. KDB-CLASS ATTACK BOATS: I-180, etc.; the 14000 endurance attack boats.
4. TRANSPORT BOATS: I like them for evacuating fragments
5. 11000 Endurance RO-Boats: They only have 2 front-tubes, but they might help
6. SHORT-RANGE RO-BOATS: 3500 endurance is a little short for ops.
7. HA-CLASS: Slow, short-legged, 2 front tubes....pretty useless

I forgot the I-400 class, but produce those, they are kind of fun anyway.

If you shave some Sub Production, you can probably shut down some Naval Shipyard, and move that HI to Aircraft and Engines.

I am late war as japan myself, so I love talking strategy at this point.

[n01487477]

EDIT: I got curious, so I actually read the manual! Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but if an HI Factory runs, it produces 1 supply and 1.33 fuel for every 1 Resource and 1 Oil. Additionally, it will burn 1 Resource and 2 Oil for every HI point. The way the manual reads this is IN ADDITION to the supply production. Thus, 100 HI Factory will consume 200 Resources and 300 Oil per turn, and produce 100 Supply, 133 Fuel, and add 100 HI to the Resource Pool. THUS, you will gain 1 HI for every 3 Oil burnt off.

The Manual is incorrect on this point Q-Ball. Apollo's excellent chart gives it a 1:1; so 100HI will consume 100 Res and 100 Oil and produce 100 fuel(port1) and 100 supply.

I agree Q-Ball, I was wrong to suggest turning off HI.

Turning off HI doesn't do anything IMO. It will reduce the RATE at which you burn oil, but you can store the HI points, supplies, and fuel that creates, so there is no benefit to stopping HI, unless you need to "ration" yourself. But if you can conserve the supplies/fuel/HI, then go ahead and burn all the oil you can.

The last 3 months of a Momi-class DD will burn 630 HI Points (7 x 90 days x 3 HI points). 630 HI points will also build 35 Fighters, or 17 2E bombers. The last 3 months of an Amagi-class CV will cost the same as 315 Fighters, and that is if you don't Accelerate it. If you Accelerate it, that will cost the same as 1.5 times as much, or 472 Fighters.

Kasagi
normal= 73 durability(pts) so 219 HI/turn (73*3)
accelerated = 73*3 = 219 (pts) & 657 HI/turn (219*3) so it is not 1.5 times more but 3X.

Think I'm right, but off to dinner, so will check back in later. And I have never played the late game, so I tip my hat to you.

[John 3rd]

Thanks guys.
 
I am getting a laptop tomorrow so I can load WitP onto it and be able to re-start with Dan.  Is it possible to transfer ALL my WitP files through ethernet onto the new laptop?  I REALLY don't want to have to load the basic game, add the various upgrades, and then load Brian's Mod!  PLEASE say I can copy and load onto the new laptop...
 
As to the industrial choices listed by Q-Ball and Damian, I think I will have to give up on my dream of bringing the last of the Japanese CVs into the war.  If I shift them back to normal construction then that SHOULD free up a bunch of HI.  RIGHT?  I have four of them accelerated so what should that free-up for use elsewhere? 
 
Decisions:
1.  Q-Ball I will freeze the A6M5c production and NOT shift it to Frank.
2.  I'll also go through the damned SS and shut off many of them. 
3.  I think I'll shutdown most of my merchant shipyards too...
4.  Jap CVs already mentioned from accelerated to normal.
 
Should be able to see what sort of improvement this makes pretty quickly!
 

[n01487477]

I am getting a laptop tomorrow so I can load WitP onto it and be able to re-start with Dan. Is it possible to transfer ALL my WitP files through ethernet onto the new laptop? I REALLY don't want to have to load the basic game, add the various upgrades, and then load Brian's Mod! PLEASE say I can copy and load onto the new laptop...

As a second install copy yes, should be possible. But you will have to install one copy of WITP, upgrade etc. BUT not the scenario and map files etc.

As to the industrial choices listed by Q-Ball and Damian, I think I will have to give up on my dream of bringing the last of the Japanese CVs into the war. If I shift them back to normal construction then that SHOULD free up a bunch of HI. RIGHT?

Well, as long as you turn of the associated Naval Shipyards, then the HI will go to pool instead of ship build points.

1. Q-Ball I will freeze the A6M5c production and NOT shift it to Frank.

Really ? The stats tell me it is worth it, but I've never played the end game... how many R&D do you have already building for the Frank?

4. Jap CVs already mentioned from accelerated to normal.

Once again adjust the Naval Shipyards.

All of this is only giving you a HI surplus ... now it is onto what you can build with this HI. The "opportunity cost" or alternatives are many, but I agree with Q-Ball that you need planes and many of them... also it will allow you to keep Arm and Veh production going for a little while longer. It is your decision ultimately, but better planes = better kill/loss ratio ... right ? If you have to supplies to upgrade the factories to Franks, then I'd do it ... having said that QBALL might know better than me about the kill ratio's of both.

[Nemo121]

John,
 
Far better to produce 50 planes that actually can do something than 150 planes which just get burned into nothing for no gain.
 
The Frank will kill some Allied fighters. The A6M5c is simply too slow to kill anything close to what the Frank can. Of course in terms of kamikaze planes the A6M5c is good as its ceiling is a little bit higher and so it might fly "over" a few more allied plane types BUT if you are trying to get dogfighting kills then the Frank is far superior.

[Q-Ball]

No doubt the Frank is superior. The only reason to keep the A6M5c lines is because you get a huge number of M5c Hikotai as reinforcements around Jan '45; if you want those units, you will need alot of planes in the pool.

I agree they make terrible fighters; only good for shooting at unescorted bombers. They make great Kamis though; cause good damage, and you can set them to fly over Hellcat CAP. Short legs, though.

If John wanted to convert some factories to FRANK, I would look at those NICK, LILLY, or IRVING lines first before A6M5c. Nick and Irving in particular are close to useless.

It's unfortunate your Tony production is so large. Your 40 TOJO factories will auto-upgrade to Frank, but not the Tony. For this reason I prefer investing in Tojo.

That's all my 2 Yen anyway.

PS: John, shutting down Naval Construction will not help your HI, unless you also turn off Naval Shipyards. THAT will conserve HI. I think you have to do that, and shift to planes. This also applies to Merchies; I would turn off ALL Merchant Shipyards.

[Nemo121]

As re: A6M5c Hikotai. If the largest Hikotai is 48 planes in size then all John needs is 48 planes. As Hikotai come in he can upgrade them to Franks returning their planes to the pool and allowing him to upgrade the next A6M5c unit...
 
Again there's no point producing cheap planes which won't actually do their job. Better to build something which works instead.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

As re: A6M5c Hikotai. If the largest Hikotai is 48 planes in size then all John needs is 48 planes. As Hikotai come in he can upgrade them to Franks returning their planes to the pool and allowing him to upgrade the next A6M5c unit...

Again there's no point producing cheap planes which won't actually do their job. Better to build something which works instead.

what mod is this when you can upgrade Navy Zekes to Army Franks? [&:]

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

As re: A6M5c Hikotai. If the largest Hikotai is 48 planes in size then all John needs is 48 planes. As Hikotai come in he can upgrade them to Franks returning their planes to the pool and allowing him to upgrade the next A6M5c unit...

Again there's no point producing cheap planes which won't actually do their job. Better to build something which works instead.

what mod is this when you can upgrade Navy Zekes to Army Franks? [&:]

Sounds like RHS or one of its derivates. Certainly not Big B mod.

[Q-Ball]

John is playing Big B. In Big B, you get 8 Daitai of A6M5c on Feb 15, 1945, for a total of 202 reinforcement planes. Though the A6M5c is not a superior plane, all I am saying is maybe you want to make at least 202 of them and drop them in the pool for February. John can produce 31 per month, so just that reinforcement is 7 months of production. That is why I would probably not convert A6M5c factories to Frank.

The A6M5c UNITS do not upgrade to anything in Big B. We were talkin' about the factories. My point was, if you're going to upgrade FACTORIES to Frank, look at the night-fighter ones; at least the A6M5c makes a good Kami, Nick an Irving don't even do that.

Hope that clears it up! And that's all just my 2 YEN of course!

[John 3rd]

Nice substantive discussion guys.  THANKS!
 
My wife and I bought me a laptop on Monday.  It is due in on Friday and I have internet being installed tomorrow at where I am living.  Once I have that going then I can get back contributing regularly on the Forum and get back into the fight with Dan. 
 
Damian---Are you willing to help me with my install on the laptop if I have issues?
 
Since I am still unemployed, I am thinking of starting a new Big B Mod Campaign to compltement Dan and I's game.  Is anyone interested in being pummeled as an Allied player?  [8D][:D][8D]
 
As to the above discussion, I think I will take some of the A6M5c production and shift it to Frank.  I can then keep these planes building for 1945 and hope to accelerate Frank a bit more.  I might also shift some Tony back over to Tojo so it autoconverts to Frank in a few months.  Any thoughts to those ideas?
 

[John 3rd]

OK.  I am now back in the world of having the Internet and should be picking up my laptop tomorrow. 

What is the current fastest step-by-step needs for a new Install?  Is it 1.6 then the 1.8s?  It has been so long since I've done this, I will be pretty useless.  Once I get the game installed I will then need to download Brian's 1.4 Mod and Andrew's Map.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

What is the current fastest step-by-step needs for a new Install?  Is it 1.6 then the 1.8s? 

You can go straight to the 1.8s.

[John 3rd]

Thank you Sir!  IF my laptop arrives tomorrow I shall commence the install immediately and give Canoerebel a heart attack by sending a turn to him!  

[n01487477]

And after you install WITP and patch .. you can just copy over the WITP folder from the first machine, rename it and hey presto, no need to redo the maps etc ... Of course copying over may be a problem unless you have a LAN, a cross-over cable or a DVD-RW ...

So maybe you should stick to the downloading and installing, probable take about the same amount of time anyway...

John, can I interest you in installing Tracker ?

[tocaff]

John Tracker is better than good, do it.

[John 3rd]

I will try to do the cut-and-paste from my PC to the Laptop using the DVD-RW first. I TRULY am computer illiterate and hate doing the Mods.

I most definately plan to install Tracker so I can get a good feel for it. Everything that Michael and Damian have done within this AAR using that progrma is magnificent and I hope anyone reading this AAR choose to install and use that program! (Shameless plug for Damian's work) Since I am an idiot with doing installs, Damian/Michael may need to help me get Tracker on board.

This is one of the reasons I want to start a new campaign so I can see the advantages of it from the very beginning of the war. I have a differing idea for Japanese strategy where I can still use my innate aggressiveness without running the risk of the wearing down on my Fleet until later in the war. My work with the Japanese economy is a second area where a new campaign could allow more experimentation.

[John 3rd]

I just had an interesting idea.  Is there any reader within this group who would be interested in joining me for a 2x2 Campaign using Brian's 1.4 Mod?  We could hammer out responsibilities and then see who might be interested as Allied Opponents. 

Any Allied players who read this thread interested?  [8D]

As experienced in my Mandrake 2x2, the games are slower but one heck of a lot more fun in trying to figure strategy with another person.  An AAR would be fun as well. 

Thoughts???

[John 3rd]

Q-Ball has agreed to be my partner for a 2x2.  Anyone interested in playing against us???

[John 3rd]

Cannot blieve that I wrote Brianstorm instead of Brainstorm!