Directive 21 ( mod of FITE )

[larryfulkerson]

I got another early turn ending so there was only 1 round of combat in turn 5 but I did clean out Riga, and I'm sneaking up on Minsk and have surrounded most of the Stalin line and have moved east to the last river between me and Odessa.  Turn 5's AAR can be found here:

http://www.filedropper.com/d2122dec2009turn5

[larryfulkerson]

I captured Minsk, sterilized part of the Stalin Line, burst out from Riga headed north and east, and generally destroyed some more Soviet stuff.  Turn 6's AAR can be found here:

http://www.filedropper.com/d2122dec2009turn6

Here's the minimap moves movie from turns 2 thru 6:

[larryfulkerson]

The mop up at Minsk is finished and the Stalin Line is gone and I'm on the move in the north.  Turn 7's AAR can be found here:

http://www.filedropper.com/d2122dec2009turn7

[larryfulkerson]

Axis turn 8 was a small dissappointment....I only got one round of combat before an early turn ending.  But some progress was made and the advance is on schedule.  Turn 8's AAR can be found here:

http://www.filedropper.com/d2122dec2009turn8

[Silvanski]

A question for Larry:
How do do you go about handling the German divisions. D21 is unique in having many tiny Werhmacht formations consisting of a HQ (with supporting arty) and the proper combat division.
Do you send HQ's to other divisions to assist, i.e. does it happen that let's say a particular HQ ends up many hexes away from it's infantry unit? Or do you prefer to keep 'em together?

[larryfulkerson]

So um....I prefer to keep the HQ unit with it's associated infantry unit but let's face it, HQ units have arty and arty is arty.  If I need some more arty somewhere really quickly I'm not beyond moving more HQ units in there reguardless of who belongs to it.  I've had opponents who had a large gang of HQ units acting as arty whenever and wherever he needed a breakthrough.  I guess you can play it either way.  It just seems more realistic to keep the associated units together.  This from the same guy who uses OKH as if it was just another HQ unit in his games instead of leaving it in Berlin for the duration of the game. LOL.

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson...This from the same guy who uses OKH as if it was just another HQ unit in his games instead of leaving it in Berlin for the duration of the game. LOL.

In that case we need an event whereby destruction of OKH constitutes an immediate defeat [:D]

[larryfulkerson]

Dave hasn't sent me his moves yet.....Randy sent me the wrong file....so I have a few minutes to work on D21.  I decided to switch to the style of AAR that I'm using for the FITE game Dave and I are playing.  Anybody object?  Here's a sample ( the turn 9 AAR, unfinished yet ) :

http://www.mediafire.com/?eg20lmdzwk2

[Abnormalmind]

Looks good Larry. Nice format!

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

So um....I prefer to keep the HQ unit with it's associated infantry unit but let's face it, HQ units have arty and arty is arty.  If I need some more arty somewhere really quickly I'm not beyond moving more HQ units in there reguardless of who belongs to it.  I've had opponents who had a large gang of HQ units acting as arty whenever and wherever he needed a breakthrough.  I guess you can play it either way.  It just seems more realistic to keep the associated units together.  This from the same guy who uses OKH as if it was just another HQ unit in his games instead of leaving it in Berlin for the duration of the game. LOL.

It's not your fault the artillery happens to be in the HQ unit. [;)]

[Randy Collins]

I agree with Panama's comments. The arty should be spread out into the units that would have the support. The HQ unit should serve purely an HQ function. I do it also, but it just does not seem right.

[larryfulkerson]

I'm not sure why but I seem to prefer to have the Arty units in a dedicated arty unit 'counter'. That gives me more flexibility to move just the arty to where it needs to go rather than having to move an HQ unit that happens to have arty in it. Or a ground fighting unit that has organic arty. Sometimes it's really cool to establish an artillery park so you can support all the units within range in a circle around the park. Like in 'Nam. They were called Firebases and there were a lot of them. They had a small ground unit dedicated to the defense of the firebase but sometimes they got overrun. It was a hairy existance for those who lived there...sometimes for days ( weeks ? ) at a time. I'm not sure how long they loitered because I wasn't there so I donno.

[sPzAbt653]

prefer to have the Arty units in a dedicated arty unit 'counter'

I agree with this, but do we really want three counters for each division in this scenario? I don't see where it would solve any issues that people have, and it would reduce playability. A divisions equipment can't all be fit into one counter, there has to be at least two. No matter how you look at it, I don't see any way to prevent a player loading up a bunch of artillery in one location (in any scenario for that matter).

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

prefer to have the Arty units in a dedicated arty unit 'counter'

I agree with this, but do we really want three counters for each division in this scenario? I don't see where it would solve any issues that people have, and it would reduce playability. A divisions equipment can't all be fit into one counter, there has to be at least two. No matter how you look at it, I don't see any way to prevent a player loading up a bunch of artillery in one location (in any scenario for that matter).

It's not uncommon for divisional/corp/army assets, especially artillery, to be pulled together for awhile. But in this game they get put together from all over the map. I'm as guilty of that as anyone else. But when the artillery is with the HQ then that get's mashed together too. That is as wrong as it gets. Blaming it on a scenario or the game is like saying it was the gun's fault it was used in a robbery. If the artillery is separate at least it would keep HQ where it belongs...maybe. [:D]

[Da_Huge_D]

ORIGINAL: Panama

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

prefer to have the Arty units in a dedicated arty unit 'counter'

I agree with this, but do we really want three counters for each division in this scenario? I don't see where it would solve any issues that people have, and it would reduce playability. A divisions equipment can't all be fit into one counter, there has to be at least two. No matter how you look at it, I don't see any way to prevent a player loading up a bunch of artillery in one location (in any scenario for that matter).

It's not uncommon for divisional/corp/army assets, especially artillery, to be pulled together for awhile. But in this game they get put together from all over the map. I'm as guilty of that as anyone else. But when the artillery is with the HQ then that get's mashed together too. That is as wrong as it gets. Blaming it on a scenario or the game is like saying it was the gun's fault it was used in a robbery. If the artillery is separate at least it would keep HQ where it belongs...maybe. [:D]

That's why i would like to see HQ hierarchy system like HOI 3 in TOAW. Would be asskick! [8D]

Edit: That would solve all those problems etc. + Its more realistic (while i am fan of realism. LOL)

[SMK-at-work]

Doesn't D21 have the 105's in the div units, and the 150's in the Korps HQ?  Or am I thinking of a suggestion someone made?

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work
Doesn't D21 have the 105's in the div units, and the 150's in the Korps HQ?  Or am I thinking of a suggestion someone made?

You may be thinking of a suggestion somebody made since the Korps HQ units, or at least the one I picked as an example, doesn't have any howitzers. But the HQ units have both kinds. The infantry unit has some light guns.

[sPzAbt653]

Yes, it was a suggestion, to put the corps artillery with ranges of 3 and 4 into the corps HQ units, in order to give the corps HQ's a purpose. I like the idea, but it is a lot of work for what seems little effect. Another reason it was suggested was to keep the player from massing artillery in one area, but it doesn't matter whether the artillery is in the HQ or separate, the same massing can still be done.

MechFo has provided info that the stats for the 105how in the database are inaccurate, and the 105gun is more appropriate. We plan to switch the How with the Gun, if I can ever get the 3.4 working. [:(]

[larryfulkerson]

Well, I finished the Axis turn 9 last night so I thought I'd publish the AAR for it.  You can find it here:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/nqjnmrzmw ... turn 9.zip

[larryfulkerson]

It looks like a coastal battery but it has the equipment and name of an infantry division. ???