Major concern: Armor

Command Ops: Battles From The Bulge takes the highly acclaimed Airborne Assault engine back to the West Front for the crucial engagements during the Ardennes Offensive. Test your command skills in the fiery crucible of Airborne Assault’s “pausable continuous time” uber-realistic game engine. It's up to you to develop the strategy, issue the orders, set the pace, and try to win the laurels of victory in the cold, shadowy Ardennes.
Command Ops: Highway to the Reich brings us to the setting of one of the most epic and controversial battles of World War II: Operation Market-Garden, covering every major engagement along Hell’s Highway, from the surprise capture of Joe’s Bridge by the Irish Guards a week before the offensive to the final battles on “The Island” south of Arnhem.

Moderators: Arjuna, Panther Paul

User avatar
Prince of Eckmühl
Posts: 2459
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:37 pm
Location: Texas

RE: Major concern: Armor

Post by Prince of Eckmühl »

ORIGINAL: Swamp_Yankee

Stephen Ambrose's Band of Brothers? If so that scene is in the miniseries and was unbelievable [:)]

ORIGINAL: Swamp_Yankee

Stephen Ambrose's Band of Brothers? If so that scene is in the miniseries and was unbelievable [:)]

Probably not, as the vignette that NewBobolix' recounts for us is significantly different from the skirmish in the HBO production. Among other things, the attack on Easy company that I believe that you are referring to included infantry. It's the Bloody Gulch scene:
After Carentan, orders of Easy are: "to attack towards the east, to a low field, hill number 30, 501st PIR sector". In fact, Easy of the 506th went from the western part of Carentan to the south near the village of Douville whose the lands around were nicknamed "Bloody Gulch" after the fighting.

It is in Douville that the Easy has spent the night from June 12 to 13 and faced a big German resistance, consisting of the 17th SS Panzer Grenadier division and elements of the 6th Parachute regiment. Indeed, the Americans had to protect Carentan against any enemy incursion and received the Order to establish a defense line south of Carentan. Before being able to install, U.S. troops have suffered heavy fire from German soldiers and they retreated behind a large hedge. In the early morning, shortly after five o'clock, the Germans launched a strong counterattack supported by tanks and various armored vehicles. D and F companies have retreated shortly after the starting of the battle, leaving the flanks of Richard D. Winters and his company exposed to the enemy. Some men of D and F companies still have joined the front back. F company has retreated since it had not enough weapons to stop the enemy.

It was not until 02:00 p.m. that the reinforcements of American tanks arrived. This was the 2nd armored infantry regiment followed by the 3rd battalion, 41st armored infantry regiment. Some American soldiers were so happy to see Sherman tanks reinforcements arriving that they wept, others have come to embrace the tanks. The Germans quickly left the front when the Shermans have attacked and when they accelerated towards the German positions, the SS soldiers have finally abandoned the hill 30.

Then again, the movie rendition of what occurred could have been all wrong, artistic license being what it is. The quote above came from here:

http://www.dday-overlord.com/eng/band_o ... sode_3.htm
Government is the opiate of the masses.
GoodGuy
Posts: 1506
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 5:36 pm
Location: Cologne, Germany

RE: Major concern: Armor

Post by GoodGuy »

ORIGINAL: CptWasp

I don't think that an Hollywood movie is a good source in the average, but the socks bomb was really used at Arnhem with some success (surprisingly).



http://www.audiemurphy.com/award1.htm

http://www.audiemurphy.com/holtzwihr4.htm

Actually, Audie Murphy wasn't just an actor (after the war), but he was also an officer in WWII, where he received the Medal of Honor (for almost single-handedly beating off a German counterattack that comprised of 250 enemy troops and 6 tanks.... with a .50cal !).

Btw, he collected "every existing individual medal of valor" during WWII:

http://www.audiemurphy.com/documents/do ... ntLine.pdf

In one of his war movies (1955) he then played himself basically, recreating the key-battles he had experienced ~10 years earlier.
ORIGINAL: CptWasp

Tanks were normally buttoned up in restricted terrain, specially without infantry support. But the field of view and the field of fire were restricted, so it was a terrible situation for tankers.

In an urban environment, yes. If there was heavy small arms or MG fire, yes. If a tank commander's view was obstructed and if he had infantry support or if the tank kept moving on less restrictive terrain ... probably not.

Btw, later versions of the StuG (assault guns) and the Hetzer tanks had an automatic MG on the roof, which could be fired from inside the tank (360°, buttoned up). The downside was, that the roof MG had a relatively small drum mag (with 200 rounds?) only, so a crew member had to open the hatch and change the mag manually. There is some material from a particular Hetzer unit floating around on the net, which indicates that these Hetzer crews used to radio another Hetzer tank, so they could change the mag - while the assisting tank would cover them.
ORIGINAL: Arimus

I don't believe the Americans and the Germans specialized in close assault on tanks they way Russians did. They had better (and safer!) ways of killing tanks and only resorted to special AT devices when pressed.

Actually, the Russians employed quite some makeshift solutions earlier in the war, just like the Germans. I wouldn't say they "specialized" in close AT-combat. The Russians had halfway effective AT-grenades later on (RPG-43, which could penetrate up to 75mm of armor [at 90°], but they had the tendency to bounce off the tanks if unskilled troops were involved), but they had to fall back on MC and bundled grenades, first. The Russians rather relied on their ZIS AT-guns (ie. at Kursk).
In turn, the Germans used their "Geballte Ladung" (bundled grenades), magnetic hollow-charge AT-mines (so they actually had to get right next to the tank - or even on the back of the tank) - where the "Hafthohlladung 3 HL" could pierce through 140mm of armor, and hollow-charge grenades (Panzerwurfmine [PWM] which was rather disliked by the troops ... rather low production numbers, - these grenades are depicted in the game TOW, though) which had a long band of clothes to stabilize the flight path, plus the Germans adopted the Molotow Cocktail and coined it "Brandflasche".
The Germans had the hollow-charge devices since around 1939/40, and they had used them in Russia since around 1941 or 1942. Usage was somewhat restricted at first, as the Germans did not want the Russians to capture this technology. When the Germans came up with the Panzerfaust (after the Faustpatrone proved to be too weak), they could do without the bloody close infantry AT-combat.
"Aw Nuts"
General Anthony McAuliffe
December 22nd, 1944
Bastogne

---
"I've always felt that the AA (Alied Assault engine) had the potential to be [....] big."
Tim Stone
8th of August, 2006
Post Reply

Return to “Command Ops Series”