Killing Casey Kasem-Marianas style (CB v. Cap'n Mandrake)
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
- Chickenboy
- Posts: 24642
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:30 pm
- Location: San Antonio, TX
Combined update
Allies June 20-21 update:
Guam: The Allied forces pull away from Guam on June 20-temporarily. No enemy surface fleet threat materializes. On the 21st, unloading resumes on Guam-base forces and support personnel mostly. A deliberate Allied attack on 6/20 comes off at 1:1, reduces the forts from 4 to 3 and claims not quite 3x as many Japanese as American casualties. Deliberate attacks scheduled for 6/22, since these have gone well.
There's sufficient supplies ashore now to support existing forces for some time. Remaining Amphibious ships are withdrawn from Guam. The Halsey-led SCTF (4 old BBs) will grace Guam with a final goodbye by bombarding tomorrow on the way out of town. The CVE TF will "close the door" behind itself and follow out the slow BBs.
The majority of the now unloaded amphibious ships will set sail for Pearl Harbor and load up Tinian, Yap and other miscellaneous support and assault troops.
The seas: Allied ASW TFs dispatch another 4-5 minisubs and another fleet SS near Guam. Mines at Guam damage an American DD. An LST is damaged during unloading procedures. These wounded ships will head to Eniwetok for emergency patchup.
SigInt places a "Soryu class CV" the hex NE of Iwo Jima-at the upper map edge. He's staying the heck away for now. SigInt also places radio communications a couple hexes distant from the last spotting of the Mushashi.. I suspect she's hanging out there, pending orders.
I've ordered the fleet CVs to 'explore' the area where Mushashi was sighted last. If he moves these ships south, I want to get a crack at them now. After the bulk of the amphibious forces withdraw, I'll send the CVTFs up to Iwo Jima.
Rota: Rota has progressed building its airfield. It's currently at 45% of the way to size 1. In the meantime, since there is 24 AV support on the island, I order in a PBY-5 and a Coronado unit to the island (24 aircraft in total). These are set to naval patrol-normal range. I've now got an improved picture of the opposition in the area.
IJN update June 22-23:
Saipan: Saipan seems to have a couple regular DD ASW TFs that are sitting in the hex beating up my minisubs. I've lost 8 in the last two turns. A fleet I-boat is also sunk and another RO-class boat badly damaged in the waters NE of Saipan. In return, another Allied DD hits a Mk. 4 mine at Saipan and sinks.
Some USN port and airfield attacks are greeted with heavy flak. Something on the order of 10 Allied planes are OPs losses on 6/22 as a result. Captain Mandrake asks when the "SA-2s were installed".
Pagan: More Allied ships are at anchor in Pagan. Yesterday's count was 40 disbanded ships in port. There's at least two more identified TFs at Pagan too. I've resurrected the idea of the bombardment forces going in. Out of Babeldoap, I order a TF consisting of 4 CAs, a couple CLs and several DDs to the NNE to assume a position to strike on June 24-25.
At sea: In the meantime, the balance of the combined fleet moves out of Babeldoap to the SE. I would like to skirt North of Truk, get past the Marianas and into open sea if I can.
If I can slip by, then I'll be in a position to interdict two detected TFs returning to the Marianas from Pearl Harbor. Almost assuredly, these contain the bulk of the forces for the long-awaited Saipan invasion. If I can get a strike into them whilest they're at sea, that will make a world of difference. It's worth a shot anyways.
If he moves his carriers South to threaten my movement, I'll withdraw the CVs away from the Marianas, opening up the door to the CA TF to move into Pagan.
IMO, he's got sufficient power to split his CVTFs and still spank me in detail, but the possibility of an even carrier exchange with the Japanese would be a major setback to the Allied effort. He'll probably keep them concentrated to maintain his surfeit of naval airpower in the area.
Guam: The Allied forces pull away from Guam on June 20-temporarily. No enemy surface fleet threat materializes. On the 21st, unloading resumes on Guam-base forces and support personnel mostly. A deliberate Allied attack on 6/20 comes off at 1:1, reduces the forts from 4 to 3 and claims not quite 3x as many Japanese as American casualties. Deliberate attacks scheduled for 6/22, since these have gone well.
There's sufficient supplies ashore now to support existing forces for some time. Remaining Amphibious ships are withdrawn from Guam. The Halsey-led SCTF (4 old BBs) will grace Guam with a final goodbye by bombarding tomorrow on the way out of town. The CVE TF will "close the door" behind itself and follow out the slow BBs.
The majority of the now unloaded amphibious ships will set sail for Pearl Harbor and load up Tinian, Yap and other miscellaneous support and assault troops.
The seas: Allied ASW TFs dispatch another 4-5 minisubs and another fleet SS near Guam. Mines at Guam damage an American DD. An LST is damaged during unloading procedures. These wounded ships will head to Eniwetok for emergency patchup.
SigInt places a "Soryu class CV" the hex NE of Iwo Jima-at the upper map edge. He's staying the heck away for now. SigInt also places radio communications a couple hexes distant from the last spotting of the Mushashi.. I suspect she's hanging out there, pending orders.
I've ordered the fleet CVs to 'explore' the area where Mushashi was sighted last. If he moves these ships south, I want to get a crack at them now. After the bulk of the amphibious forces withdraw, I'll send the CVTFs up to Iwo Jima.
Rota: Rota has progressed building its airfield. It's currently at 45% of the way to size 1. In the meantime, since there is 24 AV support on the island, I order in a PBY-5 and a Coronado unit to the island (24 aircraft in total). These are set to naval patrol-normal range. I've now got an improved picture of the opposition in the area.
IJN update June 22-23:
Saipan: Saipan seems to have a couple regular DD ASW TFs that are sitting in the hex beating up my minisubs. I've lost 8 in the last two turns. A fleet I-boat is also sunk and another RO-class boat badly damaged in the waters NE of Saipan. In return, another Allied DD hits a Mk. 4 mine at Saipan and sinks.
Some USN port and airfield attacks are greeted with heavy flak. Something on the order of 10 Allied planes are OPs losses on 6/22 as a result. Captain Mandrake asks when the "SA-2s were installed".
Pagan: More Allied ships are at anchor in Pagan. Yesterday's count was 40 disbanded ships in port. There's at least two more identified TFs at Pagan too. I've resurrected the idea of the bombardment forces going in. Out of Babeldoap, I order a TF consisting of 4 CAs, a couple CLs and several DDs to the NNE to assume a position to strike on June 24-25.
At sea: In the meantime, the balance of the combined fleet moves out of Babeldoap to the SE. I would like to skirt North of Truk, get past the Marianas and into open sea if I can.
If I can slip by, then I'll be in a position to interdict two detected TFs returning to the Marianas from Pearl Harbor. Almost assuredly, these contain the bulk of the forces for the long-awaited Saipan invasion. If I can get a strike into them whilest they're at sea, that will make a world of difference. It's worth a shot anyways.
If he moves his carriers South to threaten my movement, I'll withdraw the CVs away from the Marianas, opening up the door to the CA TF to move into Pagan.
IMO, he's got sufficient power to split his CVTFs and still spank me in detail, but the possibility of an even carrier exchange with the Japanese would be a major setback to the Allied effort. He'll probably keep them concentrated to maintain his surfeit of naval airpower in the area.

RE: Combined update
What about the latest engagement of the night of June 21-22 (with you as Allies)?
(yes, Mandrake has mentioned a bizarre surface action...)

- Chickenboy
- Posts: 24642
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:30 pm
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RE: Combined update
Troublemaker. Now I won't be able to digest my dinner. [:-] [;)]ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
What about the latest engagement of the night of June 21-22 (with you as Allies)?(yes, Mandrake has mentioned a bizarre surface action...)
As player 2, I haven't yet received this turn yet. I'll update when I get it-assuming that it's not some borkulated FOW or sync issue.

RE: Combined update
Troublemaker. Now I won't be able to digest my dinner.
If that result Mandrake posted is accurate, your dinner may look like this:

- Chickenboy
- Posts: 24642
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:30 pm
- Location: San Antonio, TX
RE: Combined update
In midst of swapping out desktop computers. This'll take a couple days. Plus, I'm licking my wounds. [:D]

RE: Combined update
CB, If he is still alive, what is the Naval skill of your Taffy commander? Perhaps that is why your escorts performed so poorly.
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.
Sigismund of Luxemburg
Sigismund of Luxemburg
- Chickenboy
- Posts: 24642
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:30 pm
- Location: San Antonio, TX
RE: Combined update
You mean if I'm still alive or the TF commander? [;)]
I'll look into this later today / tonight. I'm busy porting over all files from my old PC to a shiny new i7 now.
I'll look into this later today / tonight. I'm busy porting over all files from my old PC to a shiny new i7 now.

- Chickenboy
- Posts: 24642
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:30 pm
- Location: San Antonio, TX
Allies June 22 update
Allies June 22 update:
WTF? In a night encounter that could only be described as ludicrously modelled, three IJN DDs slip into the waters around Guam and pulverize a well-escorted CVE TF. The CVE TF was ordered to follow a bombardment TF, so this was probably the wrong order for them this turn. Without this order, they would have not been in the Guam hex. That was a mistake. But nothing explains this:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 21, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 106,95, Range 1,000 Yards
Allied aircraft
no flights
Allied aircraft losses
No Allied losses
Japanese Ships
DD Hamakaze
DD Nowaki, Shell hits 6, on fire
DD Hibiki, Shell hits 1
Allied Ships
CVE Sangamon
CVE Chenango, Shell hits 6, on fire
CVE Santee
CVE Anzio, Shell hits 32, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Kalinin Bay, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Gambier Bay, Shell hits 23, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD McKee
DD McNair
DD Melvin
DD Mertz
DD Miller
CA Canberra
Low visibility due to Thunderstorms with 0% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 0% moonlight: 2,000 yards
Range closes to 25,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 25,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
Range closes to 15,000 yards...
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards...
Range closes to 3,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
DD Hibiki engages CVE Gambier Bay at 1,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Gambier Bay at 1,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Anzio at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages CVE Anzio at 2,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Kalinin Bay at 2,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Anzio at 2,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Sangamon at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Kalinin Bay at 3,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Anzio at 3,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD McKee at 3,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages CVE Gambier Bay at 2,000 yards
CVE Gambier Bay sunk by DD Nowaki at 2,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Anzio at 2,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Chenango at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages CVE Kalinin Bay at 3,000 yards
Allied Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...
So, for those of you looking to learn from Chickenboy's mistake(s): here's what happened wrong.
1. 0% moonlight. Dead of night. The raiders were able to sneak in close before loosing torpedoes and wreaking havoc.
2. The CO of Canberra is a sot. Inspiration of 35. I must have missed him going through good commanders. The TF commander is decent (>51 for both major categories, can't tell about naval v. air skill right now)
3. Follow orders led the CVE TF through a surface combat zone. I brought a gun to a knife fight in the dark.
4. The Bombardment TF was the only heavy cover in the region-they were set for bombardment and not in a position to make an intercept after firing their mission.
I get all this. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
Here's what's borked: Nearly all these engagements took place at <3,000 yards. That's nothing. Yet, in spite of this near ramming range, no other Allied DDs were at all concerned about their CVE charges being suddenly wreathed in flames? Shell after shell exploding on the CVEs, yet no return fire from any escorts? No attempt(s) to shield the CVEs by interposing themselves between the carriers and the enemy? I call Bravo Sierra on that one. Especially since the enemy was detected by Allied radar at 10,000 yards. [8|]
If a CA or CL had been with the Japanese force, it surely would have destroyed my entire TF. Thank goodness for small mercies.
As it stands, two of the CVEs are sunk by daylight. A third is limping towards Eniwetok at 2 knots. It probably won't make it. The remaining 3 CVEs track SE away from the fight towards Eniwetok. Just as painfully, I lose some 45 planes "on field"-I'll likely lose another 30+ tomorrow.
Fighting on Guam: Goes well. In addition to this below, the heavy BB-led bombardment killed or disrupted some 390 defenders. Ground shock attack ordered for tomorrow.
Ground combat at Guam (106,95)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 29930 troops, 607 guns, 795 vehicles, Assault Value = 1095
Defending force 16280 troops, 217 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 480
Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2
Allied adjusted assault: 871
Japanese adjusted defense: 715
Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 2)
Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:
Japanese ground losses:
1960 casualties reported
Squads: 31 destroyed, 105 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 83 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Allied ground losses:
384 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 13 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 63 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Assaulting units:
706th Tank Battalion
708th Amphib Tank Battalion
4th Marine Regiment
2nd USMC Tank Battalion
22nd Marine Regiment
773rd Amphib Tractr Battalion
5th Amphib Tractor Battalion
305th Regimental Combat Team
2nd Marine Division
III US Amphib Corps
9th Marine Defense Battalion
Fleet Air Wing 2
112th USA Base Force
225th Artillery Grp
V US Amphib Corps
98th Coast AA Regiment
806th Engineer Aviation Battalion
318th Fighter Group
39th Aviation Base Force
Defending units:
29th Division
54th Naval Guard Unit
10th Infantry Brigaded
48th Ind.Mixed Brigade
52nd/B Div /2
61st Air Flotilla
60th Field AA Battalion
25th JAAF AF Bn
Vengeance is whose? Another SigInt radio intercept identifies the Taiyo just NW of Iwo Jima-it must have joined the previously identified CV located right about there. Subs are plotting an intercept course N of Iwo Jima.
The Allied CVs will move to a position 5 hexes S. of Iwo Jima. Weather calls for overcast, so we'll see what happens. Hopefully my CAP will fly at least. [8|]. There should be no way to escape a carrier fight tomorrow. We'll see who comes out ahead on this one...
WTF? In a night encounter that could only be described as ludicrously modelled, three IJN DDs slip into the waters around Guam and pulverize a well-escorted CVE TF. The CVE TF was ordered to follow a bombardment TF, so this was probably the wrong order for them this turn. Without this order, they would have not been in the Guam hex. That was a mistake. But nothing explains this:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 21, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 106,95, Range 1,000 Yards
Allied aircraft
no flights
Allied aircraft losses
No Allied losses
Japanese Ships
DD Hamakaze
DD Nowaki, Shell hits 6, on fire
DD Hibiki, Shell hits 1
Allied Ships
CVE Sangamon
CVE Chenango, Shell hits 6, on fire
CVE Santee
CVE Anzio, Shell hits 32, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVE Kalinin Bay, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Gambier Bay, Shell hits 23, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD McKee
DD McNair
DD Melvin
DD Mertz
DD Miller
CA Canberra
Low visibility due to Thunderstorms with 0% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 0% moonlight: 2,000 yards
Range closes to 25,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 25,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
Range closes to 15,000 yards...
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards...
Range closes to 3,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
DD Hibiki engages CVE Gambier Bay at 1,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Gambier Bay at 1,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Anzio at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages CVE Anzio at 2,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Kalinin Bay at 2,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Anzio at 2,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Sangamon at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Kalinin Bay at 3,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Anzio at 3,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD McKee at 3,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages CVE Gambier Bay at 2,000 yards
CVE Gambier Bay sunk by DD Nowaki at 2,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Anzio at 2,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CVE Chenango at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages CVE Kalinin Bay at 3,000 yards
Allied Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...
So, for those of you looking to learn from Chickenboy's mistake(s): here's what happened wrong.
1. 0% moonlight. Dead of night. The raiders were able to sneak in close before loosing torpedoes and wreaking havoc.
2. The CO of Canberra is a sot. Inspiration of 35. I must have missed him going through good commanders. The TF commander is decent (>51 for both major categories, can't tell about naval v. air skill right now)
3. Follow orders led the CVE TF through a surface combat zone. I brought a gun to a knife fight in the dark.
4. The Bombardment TF was the only heavy cover in the region-they were set for bombardment and not in a position to make an intercept after firing their mission.
I get all this. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
Here's what's borked: Nearly all these engagements took place at <3,000 yards. That's nothing. Yet, in spite of this near ramming range, no other Allied DDs were at all concerned about their CVE charges being suddenly wreathed in flames? Shell after shell exploding on the CVEs, yet no return fire from any escorts? No attempt(s) to shield the CVEs by interposing themselves between the carriers and the enemy? I call Bravo Sierra on that one. Especially since the enemy was detected by Allied radar at 10,000 yards. [8|]
If a CA or CL had been with the Japanese force, it surely would have destroyed my entire TF. Thank goodness for small mercies.
As it stands, two of the CVEs are sunk by daylight. A third is limping towards Eniwetok at 2 knots. It probably won't make it. The remaining 3 CVEs track SE away from the fight towards Eniwetok. Just as painfully, I lose some 45 planes "on field"-I'll likely lose another 30+ tomorrow.
Fighting on Guam: Goes well. In addition to this below, the heavy BB-led bombardment killed or disrupted some 390 defenders. Ground shock attack ordered for tomorrow.
Ground combat at Guam (106,95)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 29930 troops, 607 guns, 795 vehicles, Assault Value = 1095
Defending force 16280 troops, 217 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 480
Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2
Allied adjusted assault: 871
Japanese adjusted defense: 715
Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 2)
Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:
Japanese ground losses:
1960 casualties reported
Squads: 31 destroyed, 105 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 83 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Allied ground losses:
384 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 13 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 63 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Assaulting units:
706th Tank Battalion
708th Amphib Tank Battalion
4th Marine Regiment
2nd USMC Tank Battalion
22nd Marine Regiment
773rd Amphib Tractr Battalion
5th Amphib Tractor Battalion
305th Regimental Combat Team
2nd Marine Division
III US Amphib Corps
9th Marine Defense Battalion
Fleet Air Wing 2
112th USA Base Force
225th Artillery Grp
V US Amphib Corps
98th Coast AA Regiment
806th Engineer Aviation Battalion
318th Fighter Group
39th Aviation Base Force
Defending units:
29th Division
54th Naval Guard Unit
10th Infantry Brigaded
48th Ind.Mixed Brigade
52nd/B Div /2
61st Air Flotilla
60th Field AA Battalion
25th JAAF AF Bn
Vengeance is whose? Another SigInt radio intercept identifies the Taiyo just NW of Iwo Jima-it must have joined the previously identified CV located right about there. Subs are plotting an intercept course N of Iwo Jima.
The Allied CVs will move to a position 5 hexes S. of Iwo Jima. Weather calls for overcast, so we'll see what happens. Hopefully my CAP will fly at least. [8|]. There should be no way to escape a carrier fight tomorrow. We'll see who comes out ahead on this one...

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- Chickenboy
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RE: Allies June 22 update
Another try for the image in the post...


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- Bradley7735
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- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:51 pm
RE: Allies June 22 update
I've never been a fan of how gimped the US is in surface fights. I get that the US came out a bit worse than the IJN in 42. But, they didn't get the crap knocked out of them every single fight. And, they owned the night and day after mid 43.
I think surface fights are heavily weighted on ship commanders and ship experience. You can only do so much to increase exp on ships. after that, it's have them fight. And, you usually lose ships when they are not high experience. I wish the model didn't make the US surface units to be such idiots late in the game. I wonder if the ships in the scenario have the default 42 experience points. They should all be in the 70's range. I wonder if they're in the 35 range?
I think surface fights are heavily weighted on ship commanders and ship experience. You can only do so much to increase exp on ships. after that, it's have them fight. And, you usually lose ships when they are not high experience. I wish the model didn't make the US surface units to be such idiots late in the game. I wonder if the ships in the scenario have the default 42 experience points. They should all be in the 70's range. I wonder if they're in the 35 range?
The older I get, the better I was.
- Chickenboy
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RE: Allies June 22 update
I can understand the besotten CA Canberra skipper not contributing much to the fight, but the other DD Captains were not so grossly incompetent in this case.

- Bradley7735
- Posts: 2073
- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:51 pm
RE: Allies June 22 update
The more I think of this example, the more I think it's more of an issue with SCTF vs any other task force instead of the same whine about USN vs IJN surface fights. Escorts are too gimped in these fights, regardless of side.
I remember the AI sent Aoba and 2 DD's vs my early war CV task force with Lex and Sara. I won the fight, not because the 3 CA or 6 DD escorts helped. I won because Lex and Sara had 8" guns and performed better than any other ship, including the IJN.
There must be a severe penalty applied to surface ships when not in a bombard or surface task force. IMO, it's probably too high of a penalty.
I remember the AI sent Aoba and 2 DD's vs my early war CV task force with Lex and Sara. I won the fight, not because the 3 CA or 6 DD escorts helped. I won because Lex and Sara had 8" guns and performed better than any other ship, including the IJN.
There must be a severe penalty applied to surface ships when not in a bombard or surface task force. IMO, it's probably too high of a penalty.
The older I get, the better I was.
RE: Allies June 22 update
It seems to happen a lot but this sort of result should at least be possible on a rare occasion. Radar or not, even a decent DD escort commander could just be in the wrong place or make the wrong decision. So perhaps you were just the victim of your own mistakes combined with a terrible series of nasty die rolls. A "perfect storm" of buffoonery. [:D]
I recall in UV and perhaps in WITP that the escorts would usually sacrifice themselves for the carriers and the carriers almost always escaped if they had enough escort. Don't know why it was changed so. However, any carriers caught by surface forces on a dark night in restricted waters should be raped...or have that potential.
As for the Allied surface fleet. I find that now that I have Fletcher class DDs and working torpedoes that it is getting very dangerous for Japanese capital ships to risk night action. For two years of my campaign, I feared Japanese BB and CA runs at my bases. Now, if there is half a dozen of my DDs there I hope to see big Japanese ships and actively look for them.
I recall in UV and perhaps in WITP that the escorts would usually sacrifice themselves for the carriers and the carriers almost always escaped if they had enough escort. Don't know why it was changed so. However, any carriers caught by surface forces on a dark night in restricted waters should be raped...or have that potential.
As for the Allied surface fleet. I find that now that I have Fletcher class DDs and working torpedoes that it is getting very dangerous for Japanese capital ships to risk night action. For two years of my campaign, I feared Japanese BB and CA runs at my bases. Now, if there is half a dozen of my DDs there I hope to see big Japanese ships and actively look for them.
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.
Sigismund of Luxemburg
Sigismund of Luxemburg
- Chickenboy
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- Location: San Antonio, TX
IJN June 24 update
IJN June 24 update:
Sub central: The usual destruction of the Japanese minisubs occurs overnight. Two more are sunk by Allied ASW units in the Saipan hex. An RO-boat is badly bludgeoned to the NE of Saipan-it's survival is questionable.
Near Babeldoap, the SS Gunard is damaged by 9 hits from Japanese ASW.
Bombardment and consequences: During the night, a sizeable Allied bombardment TF beats on Saipan. 4 Allied BBs, including the Alabama, New Mexico,Idaho and California unload on Saipan. The naval defenses fire back. Interestingly, a stalemate emerges. Only 52 Japanese casualties are registered-1 non-combat squad destroyed and 5 others disrupted. Comparatively ineffective, I would venture.
In the day phase, the Allied BBs are found at Pagan. This must be the source of their ammunition and their 'gun run'.
I order in a heavy surface combat force stationed to the West of Pagan-11 hexes out. They'll make a full speed run in. The hope is that the surface forces catch the Allies either low on ammunition (it will take some time to reload) or that the Allied forces use up their movement allotment reloading their main gun ammunition.
When combined with the fact that there's only 14% moonlight, a night time run ought to be sufficient to get into knife fighting range. Many of the CAs and escorting DDs in this TF are packing Type 63 Long Lance type torpedoes-getting a chance to loose these into the sides of old pre-war Allied BBs at close range is enough to make me salivate.
Who knows? With any luck, there may be a replenishment TF or a CVTF stopping in to Pagan for a top off. We'll see. In any case, it's time to take a roll of the dice on terms modestly in my favor.
Other support: Iwo fighters are set to LRCAP the SCTF as it pulls off of Pagan. There should be 75 fighters on hand for this. Who knows how many will show or how effective they'll be.
Down South: KB moves to the Southeast-heading for a spot due South of the Marianas. They're following an ASW TF to help navigate these sub-choked waters. If the Allies are making the N. Marianas their bastion and their launching point, perhaps there's an opening to hang out in the waters South of the Marianas, awaiting *the* incoming assault troops (see map).
If I can get into a position to launch an CV airstrike on the incoming assault troops, I'll do it. I can't think of anything more worthwhile right now than to liquidate his oversized invasion armada at sea-particularly if they're lacking for substantive CAP.
Saipan: Vengeance in small doses-I hope. I order a Judy DB unit and A6M2 escort to Saipan. The Judys will be ordered to naval attack with a range of 1. The hope is that they beat on any neighboring Allied ASW TFs without engaging the uberCAP of the Allied CVTF.
Saipan makes a curious platform for this due to the fact that its airfield is in the best shape of the remaining Marianas islands in my possession. Currently, there is no airfield or port damage, in spite of daily naval and aerial bombardment.
If this holds, it will be a useful springboard for offense against the incoming Allied landing forces.

Sub central: The usual destruction of the Japanese minisubs occurs overnight. Two more are sunk by Allied ASW units in the Saipan hex. An RO-boat is badly bludgeoned to the NE of Saipan-it's survival is questionable.
Near Babeldoap, the SS Gunard is damaged by 9 hits from Japanese ASW.
Bombardment and consequences: During the night, a sizeable Allied bombardment TF beats on Saipan. 4 Allied BBs, including the Alabama, New Mexico,Idaho and California unload on Saipan. The naval defenses fire back. Interestingly, a stalemate emerges. Only 52 Japanese casualties are registered-1 non-combat squad destroyed and 5 others disrupted. Comparatively ineffective, I would venture.
In the day phase, the Allied BBs are found at Pagan. This must be the source of their ammunition and their 'gun run'.
I order in a heavy surface combat force stationed to the West of Pagan-11 hexes out. They'll make a full speed run in. The hope is that the surface forces catch the Allies either low on ammunition (it will take some time to reload) or that the Allied forces use up their movement allotment reloading their main gun ammunition.
When combined with the fact that there's only 14% moonlight, a night time run ought to be sufficient to get into knife fighting range. Many of the CAs and escorting DDs in this TF are packing Type 63 Long Lance type torpedoes-getting a chance to loose these into the sides of old pre-war Allied BBs at close range is enough to make me salivate.
Who knows? With any luck, there may be a replenishment TF or a CVTF stopping in to Pagan for a top off. We'll see. In any case, it's time to take a roll of the dice on terms modestly in my favor.
Other support: Iwo fighters are set to LRCAP the SCTF as it pulls off of Pagan. There should be 75 fighters on hand for this. Who knows how many will show or how effective they'll be.
Down South: KB moves to the Southeast-heading for a spot due South of the Marianas. They're following an ASW TF to help navigate these sub-choked waters. If the Allies are making the N. Marianas their bastion and their launching point, perhaps there's an opening to hang out in the waters South of the Marianas, awaiting *the* incoming assault troops (see map).
If I can get into a position to launch an CV airstrike on the incoming assault troops, I'll do it. I can't think of anything more worthwhile right now than to liquidate his oversized invasion armada at sea-particularly if they're lacking for substantive CAP.
Saipan: Vengeance in small doses-I hope. I order a Judy DB unit and A6M2 escort to Saipan. The Judys will be ordered to naval attack with a range of 1. The hope is that they beat on any neighboring Allied ASW TFs without engaging the uberCAP of the Allied CVTF.
Saipan makes a curious platform for this due to the fact that its airfield is in the best shape of the remaining Marianas islands in my possession. Currently, there is no airfield or port damage, in spite of daily naval and aerial bombardment.
If this holds, it will be a useful springboard for offense against the incoming Allied landing forces.

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- Chickenboy
- Posts: 24642
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:30 pm
- Location: San Antonio, TX
IJN June 25 Update
IJN June 25 Update:
Last update on this game for at least a week...heading to a conference in St. Louis this afternoon.
Sub Central:
Good news:
Sub attack near Pagan at 108,89
Japanese Ships
DD Nowaki
CA Haguro
DD Okinami
DD Asashimo
Allied Ships
SS Albacore, hits 8, heavy damage
SS Albacore launches 2 torpedoes at DD Nowaki
DD Nowaki fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Asashimo attacking submerged sub ....
DD Nowaki fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Asashimo fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Asashimo fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Asashimo fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Asashimo attacking submerged sub ....
Sounds of submarine breaking up detected!
Escort abandons search for sub
Bad news:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Pagan at 114,93
Japanese Ships
SS RO-68, hits 10, and is sunk
Allied Ships
DD Haraden
DD Melvin
SS RO-68 is located by DD Haraden
RO-68 diving deep ....
DD Melvin attacking submerged sub ....
SS RO-68 forced to surface!
DD Melvin firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Haraden firing on surfaced sub ....
Sub slips beneath the waves
Bad news redux:
Submarine attack near Pagan at 111,90
Japanese Ships
SS RO-117, hits 28, and is sunk
Allied Ships
DD Crosby
DD Monssen II
DD Crane
DD Kennison
SS RO-117 launches 2 torpedoes at DD Crosby
RO-117 diving deep ....
DD Monssen II attacking submerged sub ....
SS RO-117 forced to surface!
DD Monssen II firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Crane firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Kennison firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Monssen II firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Crane firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Kennison firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Monssen II firing on surfaced sub ....
Sub slips beneath the waves
Saipan naval CD duking it out with Allied bombardment TFs: As follow up, I check on the CD emplacements they're somewhat disrupted with approximately 1/3 of their heavier guns unavailable-likely due to the effects of the bombardment(s). They'll need a few days of respite to heal up, but I doubt they'll get it.
Plenty of shell hits on the offending Allied BBs-none penetrating as far as I could tell (the largest CD gun is 20cm). Here's hoping that it's causing lots of superficial damage to topside AA and smaller caliber weaponry. In scenarios, points are allocated for damage to enemy shipping-anyone remember the formula?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Saipan at 108,93 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
235 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
BB Iowa, Shell hits 4
BB Indiana, Shell hits 3
BB South Dakota, Shell hits 6
BB North Carolina, Shell hits 13
Japanese ground losses:
60 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
BB Iowa firing at Saipan Naval Fortress
Saipan Naval Fortress firing at BB Iowa
BB Indiana firing at Saipan Naval Fortress
Saipan Naval Fortress firing at BB Indiana
OS2U-3 Kingfisher acting as spotter for BB South Dakota
BB South Dakota firing at Saipan Naval Fortress
Saipan Naval Fortress firing at BB South Dakota
Saipan Naval Fortress firing at BB North Carolina
BB North Carolina firing at Saipan Naval Fortress
And the piece de resistance-the slipshod naval battle:
I don't usually include the entire text from the combat report, but I will in this case for illustrative purposes. For those of you looking for the expurgated version here it is:
1. Incoming CA TF trips over SS Albacore en route to Pagan. See "good news" above. This action, although deleterious to the submarine may have slowed the TF down just enough to result in daylight engagement.
2. IJN TF enters Pagan hex in the first daylight movement phase.
3. The Allied BB TF is rearmed and, apparently, the only surface TF in the hex. So much for catching an AE or AO replenishment TF at Pagan.
4. The Allies are able to begin engaging the IJN TF at ranges of 24,000 yards. Only after some time are the Japanese able to close the range. No Japanese torpedoes find their mark. One allied torpedo finds its mark.
5. The Japanese are shot to pieces by the heavy caliber Allied BB guns. Although many hits are scored by the Japanese 20cm main CA armament on the BBs, none penetrate. Mild fires are started aboard three of the Allied BBs, but these are felt to be minimal and largely inconsequential.
6. Remnants of the IJN TF leave the hex and are dispatched in the afternoon air phase by Dauntless DBs in the area. I believe these DBs came from an a/c carrier in the region versus from Pagan proper. I have excluded several abortive engagements with remnant IJN forces and inconsequential aerial actions from the text below.
7. What I may have done wrong: Not much. I'm much less upset by these losses than by the CVE losses in the Allied turn above. The Japanese knew they were outgunned entering the fracas. My only hope was that they could make the trip and catch the Allies unawares during the night phase. That didn't happen for one reason-maybe two-see below. In any case, I'd rather have these fine fighting ships go down swinging in a surface battle than bombed or torpedoed to oblivion from Allied CVTF air assault. At least they had a shot-that's all I can ask for.
Reason 1: I believe that the ASW engagement slowed the TF down just enough to negate any chance of making Pagan by daylight.
Reason 2: I don't know about the 11 hexes in this case. Might that have been two hexes too far? Speed on the CA TF is listed at 9/9 at full speed, but we all know that the first impulse of that is an inexact science. Am I reading this right? Some feedback from the readers is requested.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Pagan at 110,89, Range 24,000 Yards
Japanese aircraft
no flights
Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses
Japanese Ships
CA Maya, Shell hits 18, and is sunk
CA Haguro, Shell hits 12, and is sunk
CA Mogami, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
CA Kumano, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
CL Noshiro, Shell hits 2
DD Okinami, Shell hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Asashimo, Shell hits 17, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Nowaki, Shell hits 22, and is sunk
Allied Ships
BB California, Shell hits 5
BB Idaho, Shell hits 9
BB New Mexico, Shell hits 6
BB Alabama, Shell hits 13
DD Albert Grant, Shell hits 2
DD Haggard, Shell hits 1
DD McNair
DD Mertz
DD Remey, Shell hits 2
DD Robinson
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 30,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 24,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Mogami at 24,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Maya at 24,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CL Noshiro at 24,000 yards
BB Idaho engages DD Nowaki at 24,000 yards
BB Idaho engages DD Asashimo at 24,000 yards
Range closes to 19,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Mogami at 19,000 yards
CA Kumano engages BB New Mexico at 19,000 yards
CA Mogami engages BB California at 19,000 yards
BB New Mexico engages CL Noshiro at 19,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Haggard at 19,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Albert Grant at 19,000 yards
Range closes to 15,000 yards
BB New Mexico engages CL Noshiro at 15,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Haguro at 15,000 yards
CA Maya engages DD Remey at 15,000 yards
DD Remey engages DD Asashimo at 15,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Mertz at 15,000 yards
DD Haggard engages DD Okinami at 15,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Haggard at 15,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Albert Grant at 15,000 yards
Range closes to 12,000 yards
CA Kumano engages DD Remey at 12,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Mogami at 12,000 yards
CA Haguro engages BB Alabama at 12,000 yards
CA Maya engages DD McNair at 12,000 yards
CL Noshiro engages BB New Mexico at 12,000 yards
DD Albert Grant engages DD Nowaki at 12,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Albert Grant at 12,000 yards
DD McNair engages DD Okinami at 12,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Haggard at 12,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Albert Grant at 12,000 yards
Nishimura, Teiji orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range closes to 9,000 yards
CA Kumano engages DD McNair at 9,000 yards
BB New Mexico engages CA Mogami at 9,000 yards
CA Haguro engages DD Haggard at 9,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Maya at 9,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Robinson at 9,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD McNair at 9,000 yards
DD Haggard engages DD Asashimo at 9,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Haggard at 9,000 yards
DD Haggard engages DD Asashimo at 9,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Albert Grant at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Maya at 10,000 yards
CA Mogami engages BB New Mexico at 10,000 yards
CA Mogami engages BB Idaho at 10,000 yards
BB California engages CA Haguro at 10,000 yards
CL Noshiro engages DD Albert Grant at 10,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD McNair at 10,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Mertz at 10,000 yards
DD McNair engages DD Asashimo at 10,000 yards
DD Haggard engages DD Nowaki at 10,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Albert Grant at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Kumano at 11,000 yards
CA Mogami engages BB New Mexico at 11,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Haguro at 11,000 yards
BB New Mexico engages CA Maya at 11,000 yards
CL Noshiro engages DD Haggard at 11,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Remey at 11,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Mertz at 11,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Remey at 11,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Haggard at 11,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Albert Grant at 11,000 yards
Nishimura, Teiji orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range increases to 12,000 yards
CA Kumano sunk by BB New Mexico at 12,000 yards
CA Mogami engages BB New Mexico at 12,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Maya at 12,000 yards
CA Maya engages DD Remey at 12,000 yards
CL Noshiro engages DD McNair at 12,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Remey at 12,000 yards
DD McNair engages DD Asashimo at 12,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Remey at 12,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Haggard at 12,000 yards
Range increases to 13,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Maya at 13,000 yards
CA Haguro engages BB California at 13,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Maya at 13,000 yards
BB California engages CL Noshiro at 13,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Mertz at 13,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Remey at 13,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Mertz at 13,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD McNair at 13,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Haggard at 13,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Albert Grant at 13,000 yards
Nishimura, Teiji orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range closes to 11,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Maya at 11,000 yards
CA Haguro engages BB New Mexico at 11,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Maya at 11,000 yards
BB California engages CL Noshiro at 11,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Mertz at 11,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Mertz at 11,000 yards
DD McNair engages DD Okinami at 11,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD McNair at 11,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Haggard at 11,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Albert Grant at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CL Noshiro at 8,000 yards
CA Haguro engages BB New Mexico at 8,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Maya at 8,000 yards
BB California engages CA Maya at 8,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Robinson at 8,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Remey at 8,000 yards
DD Mertz engages DD Okinami at 8,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD McNair at 8,000 yards
DD Albert Grant engages DD Asashimo at 8,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards
CA Mogami sunk by BB New Mexico at 5,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CL Noshiro at 5,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Mertz at 5,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Remey at 5,000 yards
DD Robinson engages DD Okinami at 5,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD McNair at 5,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Haggard at 5,000 yards
DD Albert Grant engages DD Asashimo at 5,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Haguro at 5,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Maya at 5,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Haguro at 5,000 yards
CA Haguro sunk by BB California at 5,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Albert Grant at 5,000 yards
DD Asashimo sunk by DD Remey at 5,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Mertz at 5,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD McNair at 5,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Haggard at 5,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Albert Grant at 5,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Maya at 5,000 yards
CA Maya sunk by BB New Mexico at 5,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Robinson at 5,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Remey at 5,000 yards
DD Mertz engages DD Nowaki at 5,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD McNair at 5,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Haggard at 5,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Albert Grant at 5,000 yards
Nishimura, Teiji orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range increases to 6,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CL Noshiro at 6,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Albert Grant at 6,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CL Noshiro at 6,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Robinson at 6,000 yards
DD Remey engages DD Okinami at 6,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Haggard at 6,000 yards
DD Albert Grant engages DD Okinami at 6,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CL Noshiro at 6,000 yards
DD Nowaki sunk by BB Alabama at 6,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Remey at 6,000 yards
BB California engages CL Noshiro at 6,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Robinson at 6,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD McNair at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CL Noshiro at 10,000 yards
DD Robinson engages DD Okinami at 10,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CL Noshiro at 10,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Remey at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 18,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CL Noshiro at 18,000 yards
DD Remey engages DD Okinami at 18,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Robinson at 18,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Remey at 18,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD McNair at 18,000 yards
CL Noshiro engages DD Haggard at 18,000 yards
Nishimura, Teiji orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range increases to 25,000 yards
Task forces break off...
Last update on this game for at least a week...heading to a conference in St. Louis this afternoon.
Sub Central:
Good news:
Sub attack near Pagan at 108,89
Japanese Ships
DD Nowaki
CA Haguro
DD Okinami
DD Asashimo
Allied Ships
SS Albacore, hits 8, heavy damage
SS Albacore launches 2 torpedoes at DD Nowaki
DD Nowaki fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Asashimo attacking submerged sub ....
DD Nowaki fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Asashimo fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Asashimo fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Asashimo fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Asashimo attacking submerged sub ....
Sounds of submarine breaking up detected!
Escort abandons search for sub
Bad news:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Pagan at 114,93
Japanese Ships
SS RO-68, hits 10, and is sunk
Allied Ships
DD Haraden
DD Melvin
SS RO-68 is located by DD Haraden
RO-68 diving deep ....
DD Melvin attacking submerged sub ....
SS RO-68 forced to surface!
DD Melvin firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Haraden firing on surfaced sub ....
Sub slips beneath the waves
Bad news redux:
Submarine attack near Pagan at 111,90
Japanese Ships
SS RO-117, hits 28, and is sunk
Allied Ships
DD Crosby
DD Monssen II
DD Crane
DD Kennison
SS RO-117 launches 2 torpedoes at DD Crosby
RO-117 diving deep ....
DD Monssen II attacking submerged sub ....
SS RO-117 forced to surface!
DD Monssen II firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Crane firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Kennison firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Monssen II firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Crane firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Kennison firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Monssen II firing on surfaced sub ....
Sub slips beneath the waves
Saipan naval CD duking it out with Allied bombardment TFs: As follow up, I check on the CD emplacements they're somewhat disrupted with approximately 1/3 of their heavier guns unavailable-likely due to the effects of the bombardment(s). They'll need a few days of respite to heal up, but I doubt they'll get it.
Plenty of shell hits on the offending Allied BBs-none penetrating as far as I could tell (the largest CD gun is 20cm). Here's hoping that it's causing lots of superficial damage to topside AA and smaller caliber weaponry. In scenarios, points are allocated for damage to enemy shipping-anyone remember the formula?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Saipan at 108,93 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
235 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
BB Iowa, Shell hits 4
BB Indiana, Shell hits 3
BB South Dakota, Shell hits 6
BB North Carolina, Shell hits 13
Japanese ground losses:
60 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
BB Iowa firing at Saipan Naval Fortress
Saipan Naval Fortress firing at BB Iowa
BB Indiana firing at Saipan Naval Fortress
Saipan Naval Fortress firing at BB Indiana
OS2U-3 Kingfisher acting as spotter for BB South Dakota
BB South Dakota firing at Saipan Naval Fortress
Saipan Naval Fortress firing at BB South Dakota
Saipan Naval Fortress firing at BB North Carolina
BB North Carolina firing at Saipan Naval Fortress
And the piece de resistance-the slipshod naval battle:
I don't usually include the entire text from the combat report, but I will in this case for illustrative purposes. For those of you looking for the expurgated version here it is:
1. Incoming CA TF trips over SS Albacore en route to Pagan. See "good news" above. This action, although deleterious to the submarine may have slowed the TF down just enough to result in daylight engagement.
2. IJN TF enters Pagan hex in the first daylight movement phase.
3. The Allied BB TF is rearmed and, apparently, the only surface TF in the hex. So much for catching an AE or AO replenishment TF at Pagan.
4. The Allies are able to begin engaging the IJN TF at ranges of 24,000 yards. Only after some time are the Japanese able to close the range. No Japanese torpedoes find their mark. One allied torpedo finds its mark.
5. The Japanese are shot to pieces by the heavy caliber Allied BB guns. Although many hits are scored by the Japanese 20cm main CA armament on the BBs, none penetrate. Mild fires are started aboard three of the Allied BBs, but these are felt to be minimal and largely inconsequential.
6. Remnants of the IJN TF leave the hex and are dispatched in the afternoon air phase by Dauntless DBs in the area. I believe these DBs came from an a/c carrier in the region versus from Pagan proper. I have excluded several abortive engagements with remnant IJN forces and inconsequential aerial actions from the text below.
7. What I may have done wrong: Not much. I'm much less upset by these losses than by the CVE losses in the Allied turn above. The Japanese knew they were outgunned entering the fracas. My only hope was that they could make the trip and catch the Allies unawares during the night phase. That didn't happen for one reason-maybe two-see below. In any case, I'd rather have these fine fighting ships go down swinging in a surface battle than bombed or torpedoed to oblivion from Allied CVTF air assault. At least they had a shot-that's all I can ask for.
Reason 1: I believe that the ASW engagement slowed the TF down just enough to negate any chance of making Pagan by daylight.
Reason 2: I don't know about the 11 hexes in this case. Might that have been two hexes too far? Speed on the CA TF is listed at 9/9 at full speed, but we all know that the first impulse of that is an inexact science. Am I reading this right? Some feedback from the readers is requested.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Pagan at 110,89, Range 24,000 Yards
Japanese aircraft
no flights
Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses
Japanese Ships
CA Maya, Shell hits 18, and is sunk
CA Haguro, Shell hits 12, and is sunk
CA Mogami, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
CA Kumano, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
CL Noshiro, Shell hits 2
DD Okinami, Shell hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Asashimo, Shell hits 17, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Nowaki, Shell hits 22, and is sunk
Allied Ships
BB California, Shell hits 5
BB Idaho, Shell hits 9
BB New Mexico, Shell hits 6
BB Alabama, Shell hits 13
DD Albert Grant, Shell hits 2
DD Haggard, Shell hits 1
DD McNair
DD Mertz
DD Remey, Shell hits 2
DD Robinson
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 30,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 24,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Mogami at 24,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Maya at 24,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CL Noshiro at 24,000 yards
BB Idaho engages DD Nowaki at 24,000 yards
BB Idaho engages DD Asashimo at 24,000 yards
Range closes to 19,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Mogami at 19,000 yards
CA Kumano engages BB New Mexico at 19,000 yards
CA Mogami engages BB California at 19,000 yards
BB New Mexico engages CL Noshiro at 19,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Haggard at 19,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Albert Grant at 19,000 yards
Range closes to 15,000 yards
BB New Mexico engages CL Noshiro at 15,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Haguro at 15,000 yards
CA Maya engages DD Remey at 15,000 yards
DD Remey engages DD Asashimo at 15,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Mertz at 15,000 yards
DD Haggard engages DD Okinami at 15,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Haggard at 15,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Albert Grant at 15,000 yards
Range closes to 12,000 yards
CA Kumano engages DD Remey at 12,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Mogami at 12,000 yards
CA Haguro engages BB Alabama at 12,000 yards
CA Maya engages DD McNair at 12,000 yards
CL Noshiro engages BB New Mexico at 12,000 yards
DD Albert Grant engages DD Nowaki at 12,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Albert Grant at 12,000 yards
DD McNair engages DD Okinami at 12,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Haggard at 12,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Albert Grant at 12,000 yards
Nishimura, Teiji orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range closes to 9,000 yards
CA Kumano engages DD McNair at 9,000 yards
BB New Mexico engages CA Mogami at 9,000 yards
CA Haguro engages DD Haggard at 9,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Maya at 9,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Robinson at 9,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD McNair at 9,000 yards
DD Haggard engages DD Asashimo at 9,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Haggard at 9,000 yards
DD Haggard engages DD Asashimo at 9,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Albert Grant at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Maya at 10,000 yards
CA Mogami engages BB New Mexico at 10,000 yards
CA Mogami engages BB Idaho at 10,000 yards
BB California engages CA Haguro at 10,000 yards
CL Noshiro engages DD Albert Grant at 10,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD McNair at 10,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Mertz at 10,000 yards
DD McNair engages DD Asashimo at 10,000 yards
DD Haggard engages DD Nowaki at 10,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Albert Grant at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Kumano at 11,000 yards
CA Mogami engages BB New Mexico at 11,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Haguro at 11,000 yards
BB New Mexico engages CA Maya at 11,000 yards
CL Noshiro engages DD Haggard at 11,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Remey at 11,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Mertz at 11,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Remey at 11,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Haggard at 11,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Albert Grant at 11,000 yards
Nishimura, Teiji orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range increases to 12,000 yards
CA Kumano sunk by BB New Mexico at 12,000 yards
CA Mogami engages BB New Mexico at 12,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Maya at 12,000 yards
CA Maya engages DD Remey at 12,000 yards
CL Noshiro engages DD McNair at 12,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Remey at 12,000 yards
DD McNair engages DD Asashimo at 12,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Remey at 12,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Haggard at 12,000 yards
Range increases to 13,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Maya at 13,000 yards
CA Haguro engages BB California at 13,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Maya at 13,000 yards
BB California engages CL Noshiro at 13,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Mertz at 13,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Remey at 13,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Mertz at 13,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD McNair at 13,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Haggard at 13,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Albert Grant at 13,000 yards
Nishimura, Teiji orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range closes to 11,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Maya at 11,000 yards
CA Haguro engages BB New Mexico at 11,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Maya at 11,000 yards
BB California engages CL Noshiro at 11,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Mertz at 11,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Mertz at 11,000 yards
DD McNair engages DD Okinami at 11,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD McNair at 11,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Haggard at 11,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Albert Grant at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CL Noshiro at 8,000 yards
CA Haguro engages BB New Mexico at 8,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Maya at 8,000 yards
BB California engages CA Maya at 8,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Robinson at 8,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Remey at 8,000 yards
DD Mertz engages DD Okinami at 8,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD McNair at 8,000 yards
DD Albert Grant engages DD Asashimo at 8,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards
CA Mogami sunk by BB New Mexico at 5,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CL Noshiro at 5,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Mertz at 5,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Remey at 5,000 yards
DD Robinson engages DD Okinami at 5,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD McNair at 5,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Haggard at 5,000 yards
DD Albert Grant engages DD Asashimo at 5,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Haguro at 5,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Maya at 5,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CA Haguro at 5,000 yards
CA Haguro sunk by BB California at 5,000 yards
DD Asashimo engages DD Albert Grant at 5,000 yards
DD Asashimo sunk by DD Remey at 5,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Mertz at 5,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD McNair at 5,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Haggard at 5,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Albert Grant at 5,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CA Maya at 5,000 yards
CA Maya sunk by BB New Mexico at 5,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Robinson at 5,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Remey at 5,000 yards
DD Mertz engages DD Nowaki at 5,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD McNair at 5,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Haggard at 5,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Albert Grant at 5,000 yards
Nishimura, Teiji orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range increases to 6,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CL Noshiro at 6,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Albert Grant at 6,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CL Noshiro at 6,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Robinson at 6,000 yards
DD Remey engages DD Okinami at 6,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Haggard at 6,000 yards
DD Albert Grant engages DD Okinami at 6,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CL Noshiro at 6,000 yards
DD Nowaki sunk by BB Alabama at 6,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Remey at 6,000 yards
BB California engages CL Noshiro at 6,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Robinson at 6,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD McNair at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CL Noshiro at 10,000 yards
DD Robinson engages DD Okinami at 10,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CL Noshiro at 10,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Remey at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 18,000 yards
BB Alabama engages CL Noshiro at 18,000 yards
DD Remey engages DD Okinami at 18,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Robinson at 18,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD Remey at 18,000 yards
DD Okinami engages DD McNair at 18,000 yards
CL Noshiro engages DD Haggard at 18,000 yards
Nishimura, Teiji orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range increases to 25,000 yards
Task forces break off...

- Chickenboy
- Posts: 24642
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:30 pm
- Location: San Antonio, TX
Allies June 23 update
Allies June 23 update:
I just received the turn a few moments ago from the Cap'n. Nothing too much going on here, except:
1. The combined fleet was destroyed near Iwo Jima
2. Guam fell to the Allies.
Sure wish I had time to update this AAR before my weeklong trip, but it'll have to wait. So solly, rtrapasso. [:'(][:D]
I just received the turn a few moments ago from the Cap'n. Nothing too much going on here, except:
1. The combined fleet was destroyed near Iwo Jima
2. Guam fell to the Allies.
Sure wish I had time to update this AAR before my weeklong trip, but it'll have to wait. So solly, rtrapasso. [:'(][:D]

RE: Allies June 23 update
I'm not catching what you mean by the '11 hex' thing. Do you mean that the TF was 11 hexes out and you told it to move in at full speed, figuring it would get there, fight, and then move out before the daylight turn? If so, then it was way too far. The 9 hexes shown at max speed would be the farthest out the TF should be when you send it in. If it was 11 hexes away then it sounds like it moved 9 hexes at night, then the remaining 2 hexes in daylight and sailed into the USN Fleet Gunnery Range. [X(]
Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home
RE: Allies June 23 update
[8|] [:@] [;)]ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Allies June 23 update:
I just received the turn a few moments ago from the Cap'n. Nothing too much going on here, except:
1. The combined fleet was destroyed near Iwo Jima
2. Guam fell to the Allies.
Sure wish I had time to update this AAR before my weeklong trip, but it'll have to wait. So solly, rtrapasso. [:'(][:D]