MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR)

[composer99]

Given Tehran is no longer in mountains the land units present should be satisfactory.

To wrap things up easily USSR should have 4-5 bombers, 2-3 to ground strike and the rest to ground support (given you can't reach Tehran on the surprise impulse).

Ideally you should get the best possible odds (or close to) on your attack (I don't recall what these are on 1d10 crt as I've never used it).

IMO losing anything more than the cav div on this attack is a travesty (unless bad weather hits)

[Orm]

As things stand I would DOW Perisa ASAP. If Japan decides to DOW USSR then so be it. Less presure on China and USSR can build up a attack force during the winter to have a Japanese campaign during the 1940 summer. That, at least, provides some fun for the Soviet player.

Edit: I find that many say that they will go to war with USSR as Japan in order to get the Persian oil. However, when it is actually time to declare war many do back down. Japan has many things to consider before going to war with USSR and it is in the end not always the Persian oil that has the highest priority.

[paulderynck]

I think it's interesting how using the European map scale world-wide is going to change some of the accepted strategies from the board game. In WiFFE, you are extremely unlikely to see Zhukov going into Persia (although he may stay close by for re-organization purposes). In the board game, moving him into the first mountain hex and flipping him is a complete waste. Here in MWIF he can be giving a +2.5 for an attack on Tehran in third Allied impulse. Of course Tehran is now a clear hex so it will be much easier to get guaranteed odds.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

I think it's interesting how using the European map scale world-wide is going to change some of the accepted strategies from the board game. In WiFFE, you are extremely unlikely to see Zhukov going into Persia (although he may stay close by for re-organization purposes). In the board game, moving him into the first mountain hex and flipping him is a complete waste. Here in MWIF he can be giving a +2.5 for an attack on Tehran in third Allied impulse. Of course Tehran is now a clear hex so it will be much easier to get guaranteed odds.

So I take it you are now in favor of a 2nd Allied impulse DOW on Persia?

[paulderynck]

No. Personally I'd call it off, given the US Entry situation. A lot of Russian players like to take Persia but only one third of the oil is accessible by rail. So 2 oil per turn can be used for re-org which is a surfeit for Russia until they are active, but not good for much else but building tank farms. It will take longer to store a maximum of 4 and Bushehr is even more vulnerable to attack in MWiF versus WiFFE. One of the oil can only be transported by sea (it has no port or RR). You can't lend it to the CW and they can't transport it for you until you are active, and if you conquer Persia, you deny the one per turn the CW gets.

Two thirds of the oil is useless until you are at war. You have maybe a 58% chance of three clear impulses in SepOct (although bad weather is not as deadly as with the WiFFE map scale as you can still move your 4-moving INF). Hopefully you have a CP in the Caspian to keep your units in supply.

The extra oil has no use until you are at war. Personally I'd wait for MayJun or JulAug 40 and then only do it if the Japanese appear unable to react.

[Centuur]

If I'm looking at that map now, I don't like attacking Persia at all in the first turn as the USSR. I really agree with Paul that things have changed a lot here, with the unified map.

You're getting one oil and free reorganisation of the small number of oil dependent units you will use while not active. The Japanese is likely to get the Marines and Yamamoto on Bandar Shapur and Bushehr in the return to base phase at turns end. It is only one hex from the third oil field, while the USSR still have to move through the mountains to get there. Only a rail move by Zhukov might give you the third oil field, if you're going first in next turn. A huge gamble.

Personally, I would at least wait until 1940. The benefits are in doubt, until Yamamoto and his marines are in action somewhere on the map, and not on there transports. Than, comrades, it's time to assist our comrades in Teheran by removing the Shah, who is in the pay of those capitalist monsters in London, Paris and Washington...
The Japanese don't want to go to war with the Russian bear if there isn't any oil to benefit from...

[Orm]

With so aggressive Axis play I think it would be nice with some aggression from the Allies. Since CW is in no position to do so I suggest USSR show some aggression. Besides, I dislike having Zhukov sitting in a swamp doing nothing for about 5 turns or so. Sometimes you can be to passive and I feel this might be one of those times. Forward Ho!

[brian brian]

A lesson you learn playing World in Flames is that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should do something.


I was pretty grateful to have WiF and Cyberboard around once while I had to recuperate from an ear infection through a week of pure solitude a few years ago. I would sleep, take anti-biotics, play WiF, and go back to sleep.

[Klydon]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

A lesson you learn playing World in Flames is that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should do something.

I agree with this approach not only for this game, but as a basic strategy point. You can often accomplish far more with the threat to be able to do something than the actual act itself.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

ORIGINAL: brian brian

A lesson you learn playing World in Flames is that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should do something.

I agree with this approach not only for this game, but as a basic strategy point. You can often accomplish far more with the threat to be able to do something than the actual act itself.

Warspite1

+1 The German fleet being a perfect example. All the while they haven't moved the Royal Navy can't relax. So many times I felt the need to be doing something with my precious German naval units and ended up losing ships rashly; immediately making life easier for my grateful opponent.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

ORIGINAL: brian brian

A lesson you learn playing World in Flames is that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should do something.

I agree with this approach not only for this game, but as a basic strategy point. You can often accomplish far more with the threat to be able to do something than the actual act itself.

I agree with this. But at the moment I feel it is that there is no argument that the Axis are very aggressive but at the same time there are alot of objections if the Allies should show some aggression. Even worse is that so few argue that let Japan play his declaration of war and send his army to Persia instead of China. I would call his bluff. And if it was no bluff I would relish to the fact that I get Japan to DOW USSR during 1939. I do not get why USSR should fear this. I really do not get it.

I do get that it can be hard to dislodge the units Japan may have in Persia but so what? USSR subs force Japan to escort their convoys and hence use up more oil. Maybe even some strategic bombing. I say that this makes for a fun game for USSR.

Allies who just play passive and wait for US to save them can at times be wise but often makes boring games for the Allies.

[Red Prince]

I'm just going to re-introduce to this discussion that I fully intend to let Italy align Iraq as early as can be done. If the USSR waits too long, Persia might become Italian, too.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I'm just going to re-introduce to this discussion that I fully intend to let Italy align Iraq as early as can be done. If the USSR waits too long, Persia might become Italian, too.

I agree, however, when are the Italians able to align Iraq? Not in 1939, I believe. So you can wait until 1940 with you're DOW against Persia.
And everyone who says that the USSR should DOW Persia in first turn of the game hasn't seen the effect of no gearing limits in place at production. I did once as the USSR and I'm never going to do so again. I got into a war with the Japanese and wasn't exactly happy with the number of land units he did build in the first turn. I got in a real attrittion warfare in Siberia losing units and a 1941 Barbarossa finished me off.
I simply was to greedy in the first turn, and that isn't going to happen to me ever again.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I'm just going to re-introduce to this discussion that I fully intend to let Italy align Iraq as early as can be done. If the USSR waits too long, Persia might become Italian, too.

I agree, however, when are the Italians able to align Iraq? Not in 1939, I believe. So you can wait until 1940 with you're DOW against Persia.
And everyone who says that the USSR should DOW Persia in first turn of the game hasn't seen the effect of no gearing limits in place at production. I did once as the USSR and I'm never going to do so again. I got into a war with the Japanese and wasn't exactly happy with the number of land units he did build in the first turn. I got in a real attrittion warfare in Siberia losing units and a 1941 Barbarossa finished me off.
I simply was to greedy in the first turn, and that isn't going to happen to me ever again.

Not sure I understand what you mean by this. Remember also that because of the Compulsory Peace thing, I'm not going to DOW the USSR with Japan . . . . but you may be right about Italy not getting there until '40 . . . wish I had my old notes so I could figure out exactly when they did it.

[Red Prince]

Found it in the other thread:

J/F '40
Impulse 3:
Germany denies the claims by Hungary and Bulgaria
Germany DOW Hungary (France); USE-8 (no chit)
Germany aligns Finland; USE-6 (no chit)

Impulse 7:
Rumania aligns with Germany as a Full Ally; USE-3 (+1 chit, 194) - 1 (1, 2, 3, 4, 4)
Japan occupies Nanning; USE-2 (+1 chit, 355) - 4 (1, 1, 4, 4, 4)

Impulse 12:
Italy aligns Iraq; USE-10 (no chit)

So, you are right, it wasn't until the beginning of 1940.

[Red Prince]

I've decided to go ahead and do it, for one perfectly good/pointless reason:

The CW has no CP in the Persian Gulf, and can't spare any to get there to take advantage of the Persian Oil it is allowed in a Trade Agreement. Therefore, the USSR is not hurting its ally by "stealing" its Oil, but rather has the opportunity to make use of that Oil, when nobody else can. I suppose the CW could rail it to Egypt, but that is not strongly defended territory at the moment, so may be unsafe.

Besides, my (possibly unreliable) spies in the Communist Chinese military have informed me that Japan has no interest in the Persian Oil at this time.
-----
Reading between the lines: I guess I'm doing this because I want to do it. The Japanese aren't yet in a position to really threaten Communist China, so the land moves can be used here, now, and might not be available later.
-----

Sorry to disregard your advice, which is perfectly legitimate, fellows, but chalk it up to stupidity (unless it works out brilliantly).

-Aaron

[Centuur]

Gearing limits are limits on what you units you can produce. For example: if you've build one infantry type of unit this turn, you can build a max. of two next turn.
Now, at start of the game, this limits aren't there. So the everyone can build whatever number of units he likes in the first production phase.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Gearing limits are limits on what you units you can produce. For example: if you've build one infantry type of unit this turn, you can build a max. of two next turn.
Now, at start of the game, this limits aren't there. So the everyone can build whatever number of units he likes in the first production phase.

I understand this, I just don't understand who the USSR should be fearing. I assume you mean Japan being able to build out an army to conquer Siberia?

[Extraneous]

Red Prince Post #: 41
 
I’m trying to follow your CW convoy lines.
 
Factories
1x Melbourne, Australia
1x Canberra, Australia
1x Montreal, Canada
1x Toronto, Canada
1x Calcutta, India
1x Bombay, India
1x Deli, India
1x Belfast, UK
2x Birmingham, UK
1x Coventry, UK
2x Glasgow, UK
1x Hull, UK
1x Leeds, UK
1x Liverpool, UK
3x London, UK
2x Manchester, UK
1x Newcastle, UK
1x Sheffield, UK
1x Southampton, UK
 
Oil
2x Oil from NEI trade agreement
3x Oil from Venezuela trade agreement
1x Persia
1x Burma
1x Canada
1x Port of Spain, Trinidad
 
Resources
1x Newcastle, Australia
2x Australia
5x Canada
1x Georgetown, British Guyana
1x Cyprus
4x India
2x Malaya
1x N'dola, North Rhodesia
2x South Africa
1x Cardiff, Great Britain
1x Coventry, Great Britain
 
 
Convoy Lines?
Australia - Rail to port - Coral Sea - New Zealand Coast - Polynesia - Clarion - West Coast – Victoria, Canada - Rail to Factory
 
Australia - Rail to port - Coral Sea - New Zealand Coast - South Pacific - Austral - Capricorn - Gulf of Panama - Caribbean - East Coast - East Coast - North Atlantic - Bay of Biscay – English Port - Rail to Factory (For Food in Flames)
 
3x Oil from Venezuela trade agreement - Caribbean - ?
4x Resources from Canada - ?
 
 
 

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Red Prince Post #: 41

I’m trying to follow your CW convoy lines.

Factories
1x Melbourne, Australia
1x Canberra, Australia
1x Montreal, Canada
1x Toronto, Canada
1x Calcutta, India
1x Bombay, India
1x Deli, India
1x Belfast, UK
2x Birmingham, UK
1x Coventry, UK
2x Glasgow, UK
1x Hull, UK
1x Leeds, UK
1x Liverpool, UK
3x London, UK
2x Manchester, UK
1x Newcastle, UK
1x Sheffield, UK
1x Southampton, UK

Oil
2x Oil from NEI trade agreement
3x Oil from Venezuela trade agreement
1x Persia
1x Burma
1x Canada
1x Port of Spain, Trinidad

Resources
1x Newcastle, Australia
2x Australia
5x Canada
1x Georgetown, British Guyana
1x Cyprus
4x India
2x Malaya
1x N'dola, North Rhodesia
2x South Africa
1x Cardiff, Great Britain
1x Coventry, Great Britain

 
Convoy Lines?
Australia - Rail to port - Coral Sea - New Zealand Coast - Polynesia - Clarion - West Coast – Victoria, Canada - Rail to Factory

Australia - Rail to port - Coral Sea - New Zealand Coast - South Pacific - Austral - Capricorn - Gulf of Panama - Caribbean - East Coast - East Coast - North Atlantic - Bay of Biscay – English Port - Rail to Factory (For Food in Flames)

3x Oil from Venezuela trade agreement - Caribbean - ?
4x Resources from Canada - ?

Please see Post #48 for the answer to all of these questions. I'm still too sick to try to follow this right now, and I think I answered this all in that post. If I missed something, I'll try to explain it later. Or, maybe I just missed something . . . I make mistakes now and then.