The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

[Ranger33]

Grr, typed out a big post and it got lost in translation or something. Short version: +1 to what Stormwaltz said. Put some of those games that I'm mildly interested in on sale and I will be much, much more likely to take a chance on them. Leave them at current prices and it's unlikely I will ever justify the expense to myself. My example was putting Conquest of the Aegean on sale, which is part of a series that I think I might really like, but am unsure about spending $40-60+ on. Maybe I pick up Aegean for cheap (~$20-25), find that I really love it, and come back for Command Ops. Or maybe just put Command Ops on sale [:D]

Anyway, excited to see you guys heeding the shifting winds, hope things go well! I'm very much prepared to put my money where my mouth is. Also excited for many of the upcoming titles, several of which I already know I will happily buy for full price.

[RockKahn]

This thread is living proof that all you marketing 'whiz kids' [&o] need to get together and start your own game company. You exude confidence in your strategies. Now I'm a believer! (I have to give The Monkees credit here. I didn't come up with that myself. [;)])

So, pool your money, and start small with just one game developer. No where to grow, but up. (I believe that's original, but I'm not sure.)

You'll be able to put your first high quality war strategy games on Steam and Gamers Gate at dirt cheap prices. If a customer still thinks the price is too high, you can lower it. Other companies have had success in doing this, so, you know it works. Well, most of their games wouldn't be considered as high a quality as Matrix games, but that doesn't matter. Right? It'll still work. Right? With high quality games, I mean. Right?

You can sit at home typing on your keyboard from now until the cows come home [>:], telling Matrix they're wrong, but that's not getting me cheap, Matrix quality war games. I'll be your first customer.

There's only one reason for not moving on this, and that reason is, "you don't want to be rich"! [X(]

Well, what are you waiting for??!! Power to the people!! What? Oh, by all means, finish your last post telling Matrix they're wrong, first. Then act!!


You know, sometimes I think I should be a motivational speaker. I have that quality. [8D]

[rodney727]

Motivational speaker? Yes you remind me of Matt folly...do you also live in a van down by the river?? I'm guessing yes. It's guys like this who come in after the fact with commits like this that really make me chuckle !

ORIGINAL: RockKahn

This thread is living proof that all you marketing 'whiz kids' [&o] need to get together and start your own game company. You exude confidence in your strategies. Now I'm a believer! (I have to give The Monkees credit here. I didn't come up with that myself. [;)])

So, pool your money, and start small with just one game developer. No where to grow, but up. (I believe that's original, but I'm not sure.)

You'll be able to put your first high quality war strategy games on Steam and Gamers Gate at dirt cheap prices. If a customer still thinks the price is too high, you can lower it. Other companies have had success in doing this, so, you know it works. Well, most of their games wouldn't be considered as high a quality as Matrix games, but that doesn't matter. Right? It'll still work. Right? With high quality games, I mean. Right?

You can sit at home typing on your keyboard from now until the cows come home [>:], telling Matrix they're wrong, but that's not getting me cheap, Matrix quality war games. I'll be your first customer.

There's only one reason for not moving on this, and that reason is, "you don't want to be rich"! [X(]

Well, what are you waiting for??!! Power to the people!! What? Oh, by all means, finish your last post telling Matrix they're wrong, first. Then act!!


You know, sometimes I think I should be a motivational speaker. I have that quality. [8D]

[Aurelian]

RockKahn has a point.

You don't like the way the company runs it's business, start your own and show them how it's done.

You could even use Kickstarter.

It's easier to criticize from the stands than to get down on the field and get dirty.

[rodney727]

I think both sides have valid points... But it's people like you who can't see outside the box and have tunnel vision . There are some things slitherine does really well and some things not so well...a company cannot grow with only "yes" men.

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

RockKahn has a point.

You don't like the way the company runs it's business, start your own and show them how it's done.

You could even use Kickstarter.

It's easier to criticize from the stands than to get down on the field and get dirty.

[dutchman55555]

ORIGINAL: Stormwaltz

There are some topics I will immediately pull out my credit card for. The Pacific War is a focus of mine, and I love the Distant Worlds and Advanced Tactics series. There are other topics I'm not heavily invested in, but still curious about. WWII in Europe. Ancient Battles. Napoleonics. I look over these subjects in the catalog from time to time, and because I love wargames in general, I debate whether or not I should give them a shot. But ultimately, I don't buy them, because I judge the cost too high relative to my level of interest.

Well put. The "value" you put on them, being (in some cases) 4, 5, 6 or more years old, does not equal the price Matrix has put, and maintains, on them. I wouldn't expect to pay full price for a 2007 Dodge Ram, so why would I be happy with a 2013 price on a 2007 wargame?

ORIGINAL: Stormwaltz

If you decide to run sales, I guarantee that you will not lose any of the revenue you would have gotten from me anyway. But by never or rarely having sales on titles at the fringes of my interest, you're leaving more of my money that you *could* have behind on the table.

100% agreement. I don't need to have a 50% discount on a 6 month old game...but about twice a year I get 20-35% off on an extremely limited (in relation to the whole catalogue) number of games. And I bide my time, and I still have to hem and haw over whether a 5 year old game is worth purchasing at $45 over its usual $60 price. Matrix could have much freer access to my wallet, but apparently this would "cheapen the value" people hold for their games, and is thus verboten.

I remain hopeful about Tim Stone's bundle suggestion (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/04 ... -proposal/), but I guarantee the price point Matrix thinks will be adequate won't be anywhere near where it really needs to be.

[dutchman55555]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

RockKahn has a point.

You don't like the way the company runs it's business, start your own and show them how it's done.

You could even use Kickstarter.

It's easier to criticize from the stands than to get down on the field and get dirty.

Some would say it's also much easier to pretend there's no problem than it is to step forward and admit there's one, and suggest alternatives. Some people love the hobby so much they recognize it needs, so much more than Yes Men, some What The Heck Is Going On Men.

[grogmaster]

ORIGINAL: RockKahn

This thread is living proof that all you marketing 'whiz kids' [&o] need to get together and start your own game company. You exude confidence in your strategies. Now I'm a believer! (I have to give The Monkees credit here. I didn't come up with that myself. [;)])

So, pool your money, and start small with just one game developer. No where to grow, but up. (I believe that's original, but I'm not sure.)

You'll be able to put your first high quality war strategy games on Steam and Gamers Gate at dirt cheap prices. If a customer still thinks the price is too high, you can lower it. Other companies have had success in doing this, so, you know it works. Well, most of their games wouldn't be considered as high a quality as Matrix games, but that doesn't matter. Right? It'll still work. Right? With high quality games, I mean. Right?

You can sit at home typing on your keyboard from now until the cows come home [>:], telling Matrix they're wrong, but that's not getting me cheap, Matrix quality war games. I'll be your first customer.

There's only one reason for not moving on this, and that reason is, "you don't want to be rich"! [X(]

Well, what are you waiting for??!! Power to the people!! What? Oh, by all means, finish your last post telling Matrix they're wrong, first. Then act!!


You know, sometimes I think I should be a motivational speaker. I have that quality. [8D]

This is a terrible response. I wouldn't be surprised if you were a Slitherine employee in disguise.

[rodney727]

Sure sounds like it.

ORIGINAL: grogmaster

ORIGINAL: RockKahn

This thread is living proof that all you marketing 'whiz kids' [&o] need to get together and start your own game company. You exude confidence in your strategies. Now I'm a believer! (I have to give The Monkees credit here. I didn't come up with that myself. [;)])

So, pool your money, and start small with just one game developer. No where to grow, but up. (I believe that's original, but I'm not sure.)

You'll be able to put your first high quality war strategy games on Steam and Gamers Gate at dirt cheap prices. If a customer still thinks the price is too high, you can lower it. Other companies have had success in doing this, so, you know it works. Well, most of their games wouldn't be considered as high a quality as Matrix games, but that doesn't matter. Right? It'll still work. Right? With high quality games, I mean. Right?

You can sit at home typing on your keyboard from now until the cows come home [>:], telling Matrix they're wrong, but that's not getting me cheap, Matrix quality war games. I'll be your first customer.

There's only one reason for not moving on this, and that reason is, "you don't want to be rich"! [X(]

Well, what are you waiting for??!! Power to the people!! What? Oh, by all means, finish your last post telling Matrix they're wrong, first. Then act!!


You know, sometimes I think I should be a motivational speaker. I have that quality. [8D]

This is a terrible response. I wouldn't be surprised if you were a Slitherine employee in disguise.

[dutchman55555]

ORIGINAL: sulla05

Di! Ecce hora! Uxor mea me necabit!

I took a few seconds and googled this. Thanks for the laugh.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

RockKahn has a point.

You don't like the way the company runs it's business, start your own and show them how it's done.

You could even use Kickstarter.

It's easier to criticize from the stands than to get down on the field and get dirty.

Some would say it's also much easier to pretend there's no problem than it is to step forward and admit there's one, and suggest alternatives. Some people love the hobby so much they recognize it needs, so much more than Yes Men, some What The Heck Is Going On Men.

Yeah, some would. But none of them want to put what they only *think* is wrong to the test on their own.

Put up the money and time and prove you're right.

[dutchman55555]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

RockKahn has a point.

You don't like the way the company runs it's business, start your own and show them how it's done.

You could even use Kickstarter.

It's easier to criticize from the stands than to get down on the field and get dirty.

Some would say it's also much easier to pretend there's no problem than it is to step forward and admit there's one, and suggest alternatives. Some people love the hobby so much they recognize it needs, so much more than Yes Men, some What The Heck Is Going On Men.

Yeah, some would. But none of them want to put what they only *think* is wrong to the test on their own.

Put up the money and time and prove you're right.

So President Obama is doing a fantastic job, and anyone who dares to think otherwise and has competing ideas about what is best for America can run for President. In the meantime they can STFU because it's obvious none of them really want to put their ideas to the test.

Triple Awesome Grape(tm) truly makes a refreshing beverage, eh?

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555




Some would say it's also much easier to pretend there's no problem than it is to step forward and admit there's one, and suggest alternatives. Some people love the hobby so much they recognize it needs, so much more than Yes Men, some What The Heck Is Going On Men.

Yeah, some would. But none of them want to put what they only *think* is wrong to the test on their own.

Put up the money and time and prove you're right.

So President Obama is doing a fantastic job, and anyone who dares to think otherwise and has competing ideas about what is best for America can run for President. In the meantime they can STFU because it's obvious none of them really want to put their ideas to the test.

Triple Awesome Grape(tm) truly makes a refreshing beverage, eh?

Oh goodie, politics rears its ugly head.

[dutchman55555]

Wargame: Airland Battle, the sequel to Wargame: European Escalation, is coming out in a few weeks. Both are quirky little RTS games where NATO/WP combat in 80s Europe takes place. Not really my cup of tea as W: EE (which I did buy on deep discount) strikes me as more of a Command & Conquer where you have replaced the skins. Unit formations and tactics are almost ahistorical. But...

This $40 game is currently being offered for pre-order on Steam for $30 for those who own Wargame: European Escalation. Ubisoft is rewarding faithful fans of the concept with a financial gift.

When did Matrix last do this, offer a price reduction in exchange for a pre-purchase commitment? When did they last say "Thanks, fans of the ABC series for your loyalty, here's a pre-purchase financial break"? And no, the recent "Hey, if you already bought Panzer Corps modules we won't charge you twice for them" doesn't count.

[dutchman55555]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Oh goodie, politics rears its ugly head.

Not at all. But forums are about the free exchange and discussion of ideas. As is politics.

And by declaring someone's opinion null and void because they don't run a games company, you've basically limited any discourse on this to Matrix and any other industry people who should care to voice an opinion. The rest of us get a "STFU until you are also running a games company". And while this will quickly quiet any opposition, it leaves the problems as they are, except for the Triple Awesome Grape(tm) drinkers who are here to gush their adulation and not much more. "America, love it or leave it" as it were.

Early on in this discussion someone said "Glad to see Iain is willing (as always) to talk. I disagree with a number of statements/assumptions he makes in his initial post here, but I am not running a games company, I'm on the outside looking in." Do you recall who wrote that?

I'm still on the outside looking in, but it's obvious to me PC wargaming is a dying hobby, and the Matrix solution seems to be "We're happy it's exclusive, and our prices will insure that it remains exclusive."

There's a large problem with that sort of exclusivity, though. Opera, for example, has shared a similar exclusivity since the 80s. As a result many, many smaller market opera companies have folded, gone bankrupt, disappeared. Because their exclusive fan base has aged, and (literally) died. I don't see the PC wargaming hobby showing much of a different future, especially since one of the major companies behind it is eating up the competition (NorbSoftDev and AGEOD being two of the more recent acquisitions), declaring that too many sales "cheapens the value" of their product, and have chosen to focus their recent grand marketing and development strategies on iPad games.

I have nothing against iPads, but that's not where I think it best for the hobby to go. Perhaps you disagree? Of course if you support the iPad trend, and I refuse to start up an iPad app development company I suppose my objections to that, too, must be silenced.

[Kineas]

Iain,

thanks for the post and for sharing this information with us. I believe you are on the right path so just keep marching. Social support is a nice thing, but I'd rather have the numbers on my side

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Oh goodie, politics rears its ugly head.

Not at all. But forums are about the free exchange and discussion of ideas. As is politics.

Forums have rules. No politics here is one of them. Does Obama run a wargame company? If not, then he has nothing what so ever to do with the subject.

But that's about what can be expected from a poster who thinks this company is a monopoly, yet can't prove it.

[Ranger33]

You missed his point entirely. He wasn't making any sort of political statement, it was just an analogy.

I'll go ahead and spell it out for you: Telling someone they can't make suggestions regarding running a wargame company, unless they actually run one; is the same as saying you can't make suggestions about what the POTUS should/shouldn't be doing until you are POTUS yourself.

[htuna]

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555

Wargame: Airland Battle, the sequel to Wargame: European Escalation, is coming out in a few weeks. Both are quirky little RTS games where NATO/WP combat in 80s Europe takes place. Not really my cup of tea as W: EE (which I did buy on deep discount) strikes me as more of a Command & Conquer where you have replaced the skins. Unit formations and tactics are almost ahistorical. But...

This $40 game is currently being offered for pre-order on Steam for $30 for those who own Wargame: European Escalation. Ubisoft is rewarding faithful fans of the concept with a financial gift.

When did Matrix last do this, offer a price reduction in exchange for a pre-purchase commitment? When did they last say "Thanks, fans of the ABC series for your loyalty, here's a pre-purchase financial break"? And no, the recent "Hey, if you already bought Panzer Corps modules we won't charge you twice for them" doesn't count.

Panzer Command Ostfront was given for free to owners of Panzer Command Kharkoff!

I think there was also some kind of discount going from Advanced Tactics to Advanced Tactics Gold.. I think the deals depend on the 'developer'..

[dutchman55555]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Oh goodie, politics rears its ugly head.

Not at all. But forums are about the free exchange and discussion of ideas. As is politics.

Forums have rules. No politics here is one of them. Does Obama run a wargame company? If not, then he has nothing what so ever to do with the subject.

Funny, others seem able to understand the concept of analogy. Ah well.

Still, another useful dodge of the 16 points I brought up in my last response. That's worth something to you, I suppose.