EDBTR Database Project

[Creeper]

ORIGINAL: Turner

The endurance figures ingame are calculated with the droptank, correct?

if the aircraft is equiped with droptanks then yes.

Anyone know the particulars of how range, endurance and fuel consumption are calculated???

The formula to calculate the combat range seems to be like:

i.e. a Bf 109G-2 is flying at 10000 feet altitude (cruise value: 320 climb value: 3116)

(100*(cruiseSpeed-30)/60*altitude/climb/200)+(100*(cruiseSpeed-30)/60)*(endurance-(altitude/climb))/100)*0.95)

now with values:
(100*(320-30)/60*10000/3116/200)+(100*(320-30)/60)*(105-(10000/3116))/100)*0.95)

so combat range is 474.757 miles
combat radius is 237.378 miles

The formula for the real range is same as above but without the subtraction of 30 from cruiseSpeed.
real range: 523.870 miles
real radius: 261.934 miles

P.S.: all infos given by me are without guarantee [8D]

[Denniss]

For the 300L DT value I'd look at the other most common drop tanks and check their fuel/effect relation so fixing one does not affect the balance too much. If you calculate from the 75 usgal DT the 300L should get a new value of 42. Note there may be different variations of the 300L DT in the device list (one maybe as 66 impgal), the 900L/198 impgal and a 100L DT.

[warshipbuilder]

@ Turner, here is another change for you:

438, 439 and 440 never flew the Hurricane IV operationally. They commenced operations March 18, 1944 with the Typhoon from Hurn attached to 83 Group. I didn't check to see if the game got the commanders right, but they were S/L FG Grant, S/L HH Norsworthy and S/L WH Pentland respectively.

[BigDuke66]

Really great to see this game rolling again!

[JeffroK]

I am amazed that the original cam out with ANY errors in OOB, did they concentrate on pilot names rather than Squadron details??

My plan too start into a mod last weekend got derailed by weather, too nice to sit inside.

Great info warshipbuilder.

[BigDuke66]

As things for BoB 41 are posted what about BoB40? Here what I stumble over as I was looking thru the OOB that was released by HardSarge after the last patch(tm.asp?m=2408065):

1. Ju 88 A-5 has MG 17 instead MG 15, I think early ones had one MG 17 as a fixed forward gun fired by pilot/co-pilot but the A-5 should have just a single MG 15 firing forward and all MGs should be type 15 not 17.
2. Ju 88 C-2 I'm unsure about the armament some sources mention 2 MG FF/M, some say 1 and some say 2 additional to the 1 already installed, also type MG FF/M and normal MG FF are mixed, in any case it looks like the C-Stand(the BR) MG was removed in case of more canons on board.
3. The MG 81 on the Ju 88 D-1 looks strange as no other planes uses this MG, it was introduced in 1940 but I'm not sure if it made it into the BoB. Besides that the values of this MG should maybe be better as it had a higher rate of fire and was belt feed instead of drums compared to MG 15 so maybe more effect would be good.
4. Values of the MG 17 also look strange as it has less range and less effect than MG 15 but in reality it had a longer barrel, high muzzle velocity and higher rate of fire compared to MG 15.
5. The Do-17Z-2 in night bombings looks also strange, they use only 20x BSK ICB Cluster, that is neither the normal nor the reduced load from the weapons database so could this be an error? Can't image this kind of loadout was used as without bombs the "firestarters" won't have the same effect as the Ju88 or H111 can achive with their bomb/fire bomb loadouts.

[Denniss]

1) the forward gun was always a moveable gun, all other MG 15 as well.
2) standard fwd guns were 1x MG FF/M and 3x MG 17, the standard bottom gondola could hold another fwd gun + rear gun or they used a smaller streamlined weapon gondola with two additional MG FF/M and without rear gunner.
3) early ones used MG 15, later ones MG 81, they just followed what was available at the A-4. But during 1940 there should be no D-1 available, just the D-2 (based on A-5)
4) indeed that doesn't seem correct
5) Don't know what they used in reality, should probably use a mix of 50kg bombs + ICB clusters.

[Turner]

Sometimes the historical events that took place isn't what was intended. This is often the case in the German arms industry during the closing stages of WW2. The engine intended for the Ta152C was the DB603L which had integrated intercooling during normal operation. The DB603LA was a emergency solution to get the aircraft operational and had no intercooling system instead the emergency power boost system functioned also as a intercooler but had limited running time.

So... if you want to be entirely correct the engine requirement for the Ta152C should be the DB603L. This frees up one slot for a new type of engine which I will enter as the BMW801F-1 (2,400 hp) intended for the FW190A-9 => 437.5 mph level flight. The A-9 was instead fielded in September '44 with the BMW801S (2000 hp), because of a similar situation the 152C was in, which still gave the Anton impressive performance yet the old 190A design had long since been eclipsed by the Ta152.

Also, I strongly suspect that the Me410B-2 types didn't really fly with the DB603L. I'll look into that later...

[Denniss]

The Me 410 never used anything else than the standard DB 603A. Only the He 219 was upgraded to 603AA (late A-0 and A-2) and later 603E (A-7).

[BigDuke66]

Regarding the forward gun, some sources list them as semi flexible I guess because of the small room you had to aim the weapon:


Yea Ju 88 D-1 should be D-2.

[warshipbuilder]

Is it possible to add squadrons to the db? Or delete them for that matter?

The reason for my questions is the following: 400, 414 and 430 were all army co-op squadrons i.e. they mostly did tactical recon, yet 430 is in the game well the other two are not. So should 400 and 414 be added in, or should 430 be deleted? None of the above?

I am working on a OOB for the RCAF as of August 17, 1943 similar to my post of yesterday.

[Turner]

Yes squadrons can be added but you will also need a full roster for them.

[K 19]

Thanks guys for the feedback. Of course, I'm all for historical accuracy. I'll paste Turner's most recent (and more accurate) database version in the first post instead of my version...

[JeffroK]

Can I suggest a standard when posting OOB info, for example BOB40, BOB41, BTR43 & BTR 44 so that you know where 400 & 414 RCAF Sqns are to be added?

[warshipbuilder]

Good idea JeffK. For the record 400 and 414 have no place in BoB, but should be in BTR. I will post the necessary info asap.

[warshipbuilder]

Face red with embarrassment. I have amended my original post of October 17th. For the record, 401 should read Hurricane IIB not IIA. That's what happens when you don't cross reference.

[rob89]

Anyone know the meaning and the use of the data in the 'Device Sheet' (load, range, effect, penetration, etc.), regarding factory types

@Creeper

Is the little box in the 'Location Sheet' with the data of fuel/oil stocks working or not. If yes, how ?

Thank you in advance

[warshipbuilder]

I knew that June 30th 1941 date for 410 was not right. I have changed my original post to August 29, 1941. For the record. A flight was ready August 5th and B flight August 29th, making the whole squadron operational.

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: warshipbuilder

I knew that June 30th 1941 date for 410 was not right. I have changed my original post to August 29, 1941. For the record. A flight was ready August 5th and B flight August 29th, making the whole squadron operational.

Bring it in on Aug 5 but only at half strength,

[Misconduct]

Interesting, I just got the Editor to work, and glancing over things