ultradave(WA) vs scout1(Ger), '43-'45 Campaign (Turn 88, Mar 3, '45)

[scout1]

Like Rocky .... "what is holding him up at this point .... ? East Front is a sham

[scout1]

Not much movement by Uncle Joe

[scout1]

Though not much elsewhere either

[scout1]

btw, drawing more panzers away from the East Front .... It apparently doesn't need them that badly ... I'll borrow

[ultradave]

Well I can see I'm going nowhere in a hurry on any front.

[Seminole]

Well I can see I'm going nowhere in a hurry on any front.

I really want to see how this scores out. EF box seems busted considering the situation and lack of Russian advance taking advantage of it.
I haven't played a GC as the WA, but I can understand not wanting to with the EF box available unless Zhukov and Co. go wild over the next few months and provide the WA a lot of bonus points for early ending.

[Q-Ball]

It's not just pulling units from the EF Box, but clearly all the replacements are going WEST as well. That's the real killer.

Thanks for pushing it to the limit, but it's ridiculous that the EF hasn't fallen apart with that list of Infantry divisions. I am in almost exactly the same spot, but my front is in much better shape. No difference in progress.

I would advise everyone, for various reasons, to play EF Box off for awhile.....

[carlkay58]

As a note - the East Front movement is only done on the first turn of a month - so it does not move during the turns in between. I am not sure if you can 'game' that or not (as in take out on the first turn after the calculation, use the units as needed, and then send unit back on the last turn of the month so they are there for the next calculation).

[ultradave]

We've started a new game with the same sides - me as Allies and Scott as Germany, with the EF box turned off, to compare. Right now I'm having a hard time seeing a way forward for the Allies. We are ashore with enough to not get kicked out, (south of France remains to be seen) but with no way to advance against all those Germans. Without the EF box for Scott to draw from the new game should be a different experience (for both of us).

[sven6345789]

That will be interesting. Will you do another AAR (time permitting of course)?

[Seminole]

As a note - the East Front movement is only done on the first turn of a month - so it does not move during the turns in between. I am not sure if you can 'game' that or not (as in take out on the first turn after the calculation, use the units as needed, and then send unit back on the last turn of the month so they are there for the next calculation).

Because it costs AP to move each way, and the time to position, I don't think that is much of a concern. It's just interesting to see what looks like no difference to this point on the East Front line when he's taken something like 60 divisions from there relative to its OoB at the start in '43.

By way of comparison, at D-Day the WA have something like 19 Arm Div, 4 Mot Div, and 44 Inf Div on the entire map...

[smokindave34]

One thing that may be factoring into the slow Soviet advance is that Scout1 has a LOT of extra corps and army HQ's at the East Front. IIRC a surplus of HQ's give's the axis a bonus to the East Front calculations. In my 2 games as axis I've kept the HQ's at or below the "required" number and the Soviets seem to be advancing within 1 hex of historical so far (I'm at Mar/April '44 in both my games).

[LiquidSky]

I am wondering if the whole thing will fall apart over the winter of '44. I thought I read somewhere you get vp's for a faster Russian advance as well.

[ultradave]

Yes, I'll set up an AAR for the no-EF game. I thought I had already but I don't see it. Right now as Allies, I'm 3 turns into Husky, pushing north. This part of the game would be pretty much the same. I'll post next turn (tomorrow most likely).

[ultradave]

Here's a wide shot overview of the situation in Europe - my invasions, and the Russian advance. Close ups are depressing My big problem at the moment is I can't get even one free hex to move more units ashore in the south of France. They are getting seasick spending weeks on transports. There is one small unit on the coast that I can't dislodge (on the west side where the blue French units are). If I could move him I could bring another Corps+ ashore immediately. Maddening.

[ultradave]

And here's an East Front picture.

[Joel Billings]

Having looked at the latest save for this game we were able to draw some conclusions and make a few tweaks for the East Front box. We don't think the impact of pulling units out of the east was big enough. These changes will be in the next public beta that I hope will be ready sometime next week (it's in test now). We have a few more tweaks in mind that we couldn't get in yet, but those only account for a few potential gamey strategies that I doubt anyone has figured out yet. We were actually interested in seeing how this played out in the east, but it was clear from the results of the summer that the EF needed some tweaking. Thanks for the info.

[ultradave]

Joel,

Cool. That's great news and fast work. Thanks.
It didn't occur to me that you could just grab a save from the server (I'm assuming). That sure makes it easier to look at things.

We started a new game without the EF box, but if you'd like we'd be happy (I'm speaking for my opponent Scott) to play through again with the next rev/beta instead to see how it changes. (we do about 2 turns a day though so you won't get immediate feedback).

Dave

[scout1]

Being an engineer ... I'm always happy to test the limits ..... [;)]

[scout1]

just at a guess, perhaps some movement from Uncle Joe on the Southern front .... I have started robbing Army HQ's ... need them with all the units I sent to the west