Looks like at the end of June or at start of July shtats(TOEs) of PVO battalions(new formed or reformed) was changed to new.
Main change was adding 1 light battery(4 light guns).
New Shat(TOE) :
705 - Men total
12 - 76mm guns
4 - 37mm guns
3 - quad. AAMG
6 - 12,7mm DshK
523 - rifles
1 - light car
48 - trucks
29 - special trucks
15 - tructors
Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
Moderators: Joel Billings, Sabre21, bcgames
-
Dreamslayer
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:37 pm
- Location: St.Petersburg
-
Dreamslayer
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:37 pm
- Location: St.Petersburg
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
PVO units in a rear PVO Zones.
Units that not presents in this list – PVO regiments of 1st(Moscow) and 3rd(Baku) PVO Corps, PVO units that was out of the game map locations like Far East, Southern Caucasus etc.
Transcaucasus PVO Zone:
8th PVO Brigade – Batumi, 466th PVO regiment(60 medium guns TOE) plus Light btn(12 light guns TOE)
415th PVO rgt – Tbilisi, 3-btn composition(36 medium guns TOE)
in the game can be presented by rgt(24 guns TOE)+btn 3/415 or just rgt(24 guns TOE)
365th btn – Poti
388th btn – Khashuri
North Caucasus PVO Zone:
454th PVO rgt – Novorossiysk, 2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE)
485th PVO rgt – Tuapse, 2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE)
734th PVO rgt – Rostov, 2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE)
744th PVO rgt – Grozny, 2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE)
Kharkov PVO Zone:
736th PVO rgt – Kharkov, 2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE)
746th PVO rgt – Balakleya, 2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE), covers ammo depot
56th btn – Kremenchug
57th btn – Nezhin, covers ammo depot of M.D.
Orel PVO Zone:
733th PVO rgt – Karachev, 2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE), covers depot
Moscow PVO Zone:
232th PVO rgt – Kuzhenkino(more closest city on the game map is Bologoe),2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE) also had light btn, covers depot
732th PVO rgt – Tula, 2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE) also had light btn
Units that not presents in this list – PVO regiments of 1st(Moscow) and 3rd(Baku) PVO Corps, PVO units that was out of the game map locations like Far East, Southern Caucasus etc.
Transcaucasus PVO Zone:
8th PVO Brigade – Batumi, 466th PVO regiment(60 medium guns TOE) plus Light btn(12 light guns TOE)
415th PVO rgt – Tbilisi, 3-btn composition(36 medium guns TOE)
in the game can be presented by rgt(24 guns TOE)+btn 3/415 or just rgt(24 guns TOE)
365th btn – Poti
388th btn – Khashuri
North Caucasus PVO Zone:
454th PVO rgt – Novorossiysk, 2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE)
485th PVO rgt – Tuapse, 2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE)
734th PVO rgt – Rostov, 2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE)
744th PVO rgt – Grozny, 2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE)
Kharkov PVO Zone:
736th PVO rgt – Kharkov, 2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE)
746th PVO rgt – Balakleya, 2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE), covers ammo depot
56th btn – Kremenchug
57th btn – Nezhin, covers ammo depot of M.D.
Orel PVO Zone:
733th PVO rgt – Karachev, 2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE), covers depot
Moscow PVO Zone:
232th PVO rgt – Kuzhenkino(more closest city on the game map is Bologoe),2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE) also had light btn, covers depot
732th PVO rgt – Tula, 2-btn composition(24 medium guns TOE) also had light btn
-
malyhin1517
- Posts: 2021
- Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:52 am
- Location: Ukraine Dnepropetrovsk
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
Came across a few more errors in the game. First in Ukraine between Dnepropetrovsk and Verkhovtsevo is the city of Dneprodzerzhinsk with a population of about 150 thousand in 1939. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamianske
Secondly, the IL-2KR there was a machine gun of 12.7 mm in the rear, as the regular Il-2. http://airwar.ru/enc/spyww2/il2kr.html
Secondly, the IL-2KR there was a machine gun of 12.7 mm in the rear, as the regular Il-2. http://airwar.ru/enc/spyww2/il2kr.html
Sorry, i use an online translator 
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
Airbase in Light Urban Hex
On T1 the Soviet 36 IAD PVO airbase is located in Kiev (Light Urban). Whilst this may be historically accurate, according to game rules air missions cannot be flown from Light Urban hexes. Thus it is in a ridiculous position - humbly suggest the airbase be moved one hex East or West.
On T1 the Soviet 36 IAD PVO airbase is located in Kiev (Light Urban). Whilst this may be historically accurate, according to game rules air missions cannot be flown from Light Urban hexes. Thus it is in a ridiculous position - humbly suggest the airbase be moved one hex East or West.
Molotov : This we did not deserve.
Foch : This is not peace. This is a 20 year armistice.
C'est la guerre aérienne
Foch : This is not peace. This is a 20 year armistice.
C'est la guerre aérienne
-
Dreamslayer
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:37 pm
- Location: St.Petersburg
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
Similar story in Sevastopol.ORIGINAL: 56ajax
Airbase in Light Urban Hex
On T1 the Soviet 36 IAD PVO airbase is located in Kiev (Light Urban). Whilst this may be historically accurate, according to game rules air missions cannot be flown from Light Urban hexes. Thus it is in a ridiculous position - humbly suggest the airbase be moved one hex East or West.
-
Dreamslayer
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:37 pm
- Location: St.Petersburg
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
AT Brigade 1941 (Artilleriyskaya brigada PTO)
On 23 April,1941 by the decree starts forming 10 AT artillery RGK brigades.
Structure (Shtats # 04/132-04/136):
- HQ (Upravlenie brigady)
- 2x Artillery regiments (Artilleriyskiy polk) ,each rgt had 1x 107mm gun btn, 2x 85mm gun btn, 2x 76mm gun btn, 1x AA btn(8x 37mm guns) + AAMG company(6x 12,7mm MG)
- HQ battery (Shtabnaya batareya)
- Mine-sapper battalion (Minno-sappyornyy batalion)
- Autotrasport battalion (Avtotransportnyy batalion)
TOE:
Men total – 5322
48 – 76mm M1936 guns(F-22)
48 – 85mm AA guns
24 – 107mm M60 guns
16 – 37mm AA guns
12 – HMG(DShK)
93 – LMG(DP)
584 – trucks
123 – special trucks
11 – light cars
165 – traktors
Mine-sapper btn had 4800 AT-mines and 1000 AP-mines.
Before start of the war all 10 AT brigades was formed but had some shortages. As many others motorized units(these brigades was motorized) had shortage of various trucks/cars. Also before the war the brigades did not received 107mm guns and some units instead of it used additional 85mm guns.
During 1941 all pre-war AT Brigades was disbanded. One AT Brigade(14th) was formed in July 1941 in Leningrad , in the Active Army 12 July,1941-23 June,1942.
So what can be changed in the game.
Status to motorized, corrections for trucks needed with shortage of trucks at start.
Remove AT brigades from creating units list in 1941(anyway I don't think that somebody really forming these units).
Add 14th AT Brigade to reinforcement list in July with arrival to Leningrad area.
Reduce men total in TOE to 5322.
Add some number of sapper squads as presence of Mine-sapper btn.
Corrections for AAMG to 12,currently 72 in TOE. LMG can be presented by MG squads or Rifle squads.
On 23 April,1941 by the decree starts forming 10 AT artillery RGK brigades.
Structure (Shtats # 04/132-04/136):
- HQ (Upravlenie brigady)
- 2x Artillery regiments (Artilleriyskiy polk) ,each rgt had 1x 107mm gun btn, 2x 85mm gun btn, 2x 76mm gun btn, 1x AA btn(8x 37mm guns) + AAMG company(6x 12,7mm MG)
- HQ battery (Shtabnaya batareya)
- Mine-sapper battalion (Minno-sappyornyy batalion)
- Autotrasport battalion (Avtotransportnyy batalion)
TOE:
Men total – 5322
48 – 76mm M1936 guns(F-22)
48 – 85mm AA guns
24 – 107mm M60 guns
16 – 37mm AA guns
12 – HMG(DShK)
93 – LMG(DP)
584 – trucks
123 – special trucks
11 – light cars
165 – traktors
Mine-sapper btn had 4800 AT-mines and 1000 AP-mines.
Before start of the war all 10 AT brigades was formed but had some shortages. As many others motorized units(these brigades was motorized) had shortage of various trucks/cars. Also before the war the brigades did not received 107mm guns and some units instead of it used additional 85mm guns.
During 1941 all pre-war AT Brigades was disbanded. One AT Brigade(14th) was formed in July 1941 in Leningrad , in the Active Army 12 July,1941-23 June,1942.
So what can be changed in the game.
Status to motorized, corrections for trucks needed with shortage of trucks at start.
Remove AT brigades from creating units list in 1941(anyway I don't think that somebody really forming these units).
Add 14th AT Brigade to reinforcement list in July with arrival to Leningrad area.
Reduce men total in TOE to 5322.
Add some number of sapper squads as presence of Mine-sapper btn.
Corrections for AAMG to 12,currently 72 in TOE. LMG can be presented by MG squads or Rifle squads.
-
Dreamslayer
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:37 pm
- Location: St.Petersburg
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
28th Mech Corps (Transcaucasus M.D.)
I think this formation must be removed from the game map.
Actually this Corps was located in Armenian SSR:
28th Mech Corps HQ – Erevan
6th TD – Vagarshapat/Octemberyan
54th TD – Leninakan
236th MD – Ashtarak
All these locations are out of the game map.
24 July 236th MD was reformed to 236th Rifle division.
From August 1941 both TD was used in Soviet-British intervention to Iran.
On 1 September 6th TD was returned to M.D.area.
23 October,1941 6th TD was reformed to 6th Tank brigade(2 May 1942 was renamed to 57th) and assigned to 56th Army.
On basis of 54h TD was formed 54th and 55th Tank brigades.
I think this formation must be removed from the game map.
Actually this Corps was located in Armenian SSR:
28th Mech Corps HQ – Erevan
6th TD – Vagarshapat/Octemberyan
54th TD – Leninakan
236th MD – Ashtarak
All these locations are out of the game map.
24 July 236th MD was reformed to 236th Rifle division.
From August 1941 both TD was used in Soviet-British intervention to Iran.
On 1 September 6th TD was returned to M.D.area.
23 October,1941 6th TD was reformed to 6th Tank brigade(2 May 1942 was renamed to 57th) and assigned to 56th Army.
On basis of 54h TD was formed 54th and 55th Tank brigades.
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
Thanks for the info. But these units are far away from the front and frozen until 1942 so they won't activate + they will downgrade on-map. Soviet player has to pay for them with supplies, ammo and eqipment and gets some stuff in return once they downgrade.
I could modify the unfreeze dates if you have some info about combat activities vs Axis units.
I could modify the unfreeze dates if you have some info about combat activities vs Axis units.
WitE dev team - (aircraft data)
WitE 1.08+ dev team (data/scenario maintainer)
WitW dev team (aircraft data, partial data/scenario maintainer)
WitE2 dev team (aircraft data)
WitE 1.08+ dev team (data/scenario maintainer)
WitW dev team (aircraft data, partial data/scenario maintainer)
WitE2 dev team (aircraft data)
-
Dreamslayer
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:37 pm
- Location: St.Petersburg
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
But what a point to have on the map excess units? Same way we can add Soviet units of various off-map M.D.s(like Far East,Middle-Asian etc).
-
Dreamslayer
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:37 pm
- Location: St.Petersburg
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
First Naval Infantry Brigades of Baltic Fleet.
This post about 1st-7th and Cadet Brigades of KBF.
In the game data missed:
1st Naval Infantry Brigade(1st Osobaya Brigada morskoy pekhoty) – only this brigade(if we talking about units like Naval Infantry)was in VMF at start of the war. At beginning of June the brigade(with the exception of 4th btn and NKO school) was relocated from Koivisto(near Vyborg) to Tallinn(main KBF base). So probably it was most combat-ready unit during defensive operation in Estonia and defence of Tallinn. On 1 Jan,1941 also had 13 T-38 and 23 T-26 tanks. With mobilization has full TOE (even full motorized part – 47 trucks and 11 light cars, 72 T-20 tractors with armored cabin and machinegun). Men total by TOE was 6500, but because one btn and NKO school stayed in Koivisto in Tallinn was around 5k men in the brigade.
Looks like only this brigade-size unit we can count as prepared(at start of the war) for ground combat despite of that pre-war service time in VMF was 5 years.
7st Naval Infantry Brigade (of KBF).
In the game we already have one 7th Naval Infantry Brigade, but it's a brigade of Black See Fleet.
Unit with same name was formed by KBF too. 7th of ChF starts forming on 12 August, 7th of KBF starts forming on 12 September(probably by the same order as 6th). Later in December 1941 7th of KBF was reformed to 72th Rifle division(2nd forming).
Probably in the game both 7th brigades need to have mark like "(KBF)"/"(ChF)" - 7th(KBF)Naval Infantry Brigade/7th(ChF)Naval Infantry Brigade.
Some corrections about forming(date when these units arrives in the game) of 1st-7th and Cadet Brigades of KBF:
unit name – turn in the game(suggestion) – start date of forming – start date in the Active Army
1st – no(T1) – Tallinn – 22 June
2nd – T5(T3) – 5 July – 5 July
3rd – T11(T5) – 18 July – 18 July
4th - T5(T5) – 18 July – 18 July
5th – T8(T10) – 21 August – 21 August
6th – T8(T13) – 12 September – 16 September
7th – no(T13) – 12 September – 18 September
Cadet – T6(T3) – 1 July – 3 July
All these new formed brigades (2nd -7th and Cadet) was formed in Leningrad or around(Kronstadt,Petergof). This remark because 3rd brigade arrives to Olonets in the game.
About morale/exp of these units. Probably 1st brigade must have highest morale/exp( maybe 50/45) and others units 50/40 or something.
This post about 1st-7th and Cadet Brigades of KBF.
In the game data missed:
1st Naval Infantry Brigade(1st Osobaya Brigada morskoy pekhoty) – only this brigade(if we talking about units like Naval Infantry)was in VMF at start of the war. At beginning of June the brigade(with the exception of 4th btn and NKO school) was relocated from Koivisto(near Vyborg) to Tallinn(main KBF base). So probably it was most combat-ready unit during defensive operation in Estonia and defence of Tallinn. On 1 Jan,1941 also had 13 T-38 and 23 T-26 tanks. With mobilization has full TOE (even full motorized part – 47 trucks and 11 light cars, 72 T-20 tractors with armored cabin and machinegun). Men total by TOE was 6500, but because one btn and NKO school stayed in Koivisto in Tallinn was around 5k men in the brigade.
Looks like only this brigade-size unit we can count as prepared(at start of the war) for ground combat despite of that pre-war service time in VMF was 5 years.
7st Naval Infantry Brigade (of KBF).
In the game we already have one 7th Naval Infantry Brigade, but it's a brigade of Black See Fleet.
Unit with same name was formed by KBF too. 7th of ChF starts forming on 12 August, 7th of KBF starts forming on 12 September(probably by the same order as 6th). Later in December 1941 7th of KBF was reformed to 72th Rifle division(2nd forming).
Probably in the game both 7th brigades need to have mark like "(KBF)"/"(ChF)" - 7th(KBF)Naval Infantry Brigade/7th(ChF)Naval Infantry Brigade.
Some corrections about forming(date when these units arrives in the game) of 1st-7th and Cadet Brigades of KBF:
unit name – turn in the game(suggestion) – start date of forming – start date in the Active Army
1st – no(T1) – Tallinn – 22 June
2nd – T5(T3) – 5 July – 5 July
3rd – T11(T5) – 18 July – 18 July
4th - T5(T5) – 18 July – 18 July
5th – T8(T10) – 21 August – 21 August
6th – T8(T13) – 12 September – 16 September
7th – no(T13) – 12 September – 18 September
Cadet – T6(T3) – 1 July – 3 July
All these new formed brigades (2nd -7th and Cadet) was formed in Leningrad or around(Kronstadt,Petergof). This remark because 3rd brigade arrives to Olonets in the game.
About morale/exp of these units. Probably 1st brigade must have highest morale/exp( maybe 50/45) and others units 50/40 or something.
-
Dreamslayer
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:37 pm
- Location: St.Petersburg
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
A few corrections about separate sapper battalions.
22th Rifle Corpse in the game has 22th btn, correct # is 202th
24th Rifle Corpse in the game has 24th btn, correct # is 305th
55th Rifle Corpse in the game has 55th btn, correct # is 254th
Missed battalions :
19th Rifle Corpse - 2nd btn
35th Rifle Corpse - 247th btn
22th Rifle Corpse in the game has 22th btn, correct # is 202th
24th Rifle Corpse in the game has 24th btn, correct # is 305th
55th Rifle Corpse in the game has 55th btn, correct # is 254th
Missed battalions :
19th Rifle Corpse - 2nd btn
35th Rifle Corpse - 247th btn
-
Dreamslayer
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:37 pm
- Location: St.Petersburg
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
Forming of Southern Front, 9th and 18th Armies.
(another one try)
Probably decisions about forming these HQs was in pre-plans for various scenarios.
Looks like the final decisions about forming of 9th Army was accepted 20-21 June, so on evening of 21 June this HQ was among the first HQs(as VMF Command) who started to execute coverage plans and raised troops by combat alarm(this is mainly the merit of the Chief of Staff of 9th Army Zakharov, who took the initiative). 9th Army HQ was deployed on basis of Odessa M.D., commander of Odessa M.D. Cherevichenko became commander of 9th Army.
The final decisions about forming of Southern Front was accepted 22 June and officially confirmed by Stavka's directive on 24 June. Southern Front HQ was deployed on basis of Moscow M.D. , commander of Moscow M.D. Tyulenev became commander of Southern Front.
Similar story about 18th Army. Commander of Kharkov M.D. Smirnov became commander of 18th Army. But this command already presented in the game and has correct leader.
About OOB of Southern Front from Stavka's directive on 24 June(same in Southern Front's Directive #01 ,25 June 9:00 Vinnitsa for Commanders of 9th Army, 18th Army and 9th Corps):
Commander of Moscow M.D. After Tyulenev became Pavel Artemyev.
(another one try)
Probably decisions about forming these HQs was in pre-plans for various scenarios.
Looks like the final decisions about forming of 9th Army was accepted 20-21 June, so on evening of 21 June this HQ was among the first HQs(as VMF Command) who started to execute coverage plans and raised troops by combat alarm(this is mainly the merit of the Chief of Staff of 9th Army Zakharov, who took the initiative). 9th Army HQ was deployed on basis of Odessa M.D., commander of Odessa M.D. Cherevichenko became commander of 9th Army.
The final decisions about forming of Southern Front was accepted 22 June and officially confirmed by Stavka's directive on 24 June. Southern Front HQ was deployed on basis of Moscow M.D. , commander of Moscow M.D. Tyulenev became commander of Southern Front.
Similar story about 18th Army. Commander of Kharkov M.D. Smirnov became commander of 18th Army. But this command already presented in the game and has correct leader.
About OOB of Southern Front from Stavka's directive on 24 June(same in Southern Front's Directive #01 ,25 June 9:00 Vinnitsa for Commanders of 9th Army, 18th Army and 9th Corps):
So, I see no problem if in the game the start setup will be looks like this. This Front in June was almostly "static" and there was mainly only air-combats. Also in the OOB above missed info about 3rd Airborn HQ, I think this HQ was directly subordinated to Southern Front too. Also there is need some revison of air units and ground support units,subordination of small units like NKVD border units and fort units.Southern Front HQ – Vinnitsa
Included in the front from 00:05 25 June :
18th Army HQ(Kamenets-Podolsk) - 17th Rifle Corps(96th,60th,164th divisions); 16th Mech Corps(39th,15th,240th)
9th Army HQ(Tiraspol) - 35th Rifle Corps(30th,95th,176th); 14th Rifle Corps(25th,51th); 48th Rifle Corps(74th,150th); 2nd Mech Corps(11th,16th,15th); 18th Mech Corps(44th,47th,218th); 2nd Cavalry Corps(5th,9th)
9th Rifle Corps HQ(Simferopol) - 106th,156th,32th divisions
55th Rifle Corps HQ(Dunaevtsy) - 130th,169th,189th
7th Rifle Corps HQ – 116th,196th,206th,147th (Kotovsk-Balta area)
Commander of Moscow M.D. After Tyulenev became Pavel Artemyev.
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
How good is this site for soviet corps HQ composition:
http://www.soldat.ru/spravka/korpusa_rkka/table1.html
Does the site have similar info for cavalry/mech corps HQ ?
can you provide me a translation of the headings under composition? I assume 1st row is (Corps?) Artillery units but i can't get google to translate the other 3 (one of them must be sapper)
Soem info given above is in conflict with data on Leo Niehorster's website although he doesnt got down to corps level (stops at Army)
http://niehorster.org/012_ussr/41_oob/__stavka_41.html
http://www.soldat.ru/spravka/korpusa_rkka/table1.html
Does the site have similar info for cavalry/mech corps HQ ?
can you provide me a translation of the headings under composition? I assume 1st row is (Corps?) Artillery units but i can't get google to translate the other 3 (one of them must be sapper)
Soem info given above is in conflict with data on Leo Niehorster's website although he doesnt got down to corps level (stops at Army)
http://niehorster.org/012_ussr/41_oob/__stavka_41.html
WitE dev team - (aircraft data)
WitE 1.08+ dev team (data/scenario maintainer)
WitW dev team (aircraft data, partial data/scenario maintainer)
WitE2 dev team (aircraft data)
WitE 1.08+ dev team (data/scenario maintainer)
WitW dev team (aircraft data, partial data/scenario maintainer)
WitE2 dev team (aircraft data)
-
Dreamslayer
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:37 pm
- Location: St.Petersburg
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
First of all, I think we can't have any 100% correctly info about so giant OOB like RKKA during war. There are always will be some incorrections or wrong/conflict data about it. Even in context of 22 June - on morning one unit can be subordinated to one HQ, but some hours later it can be attached to other.
This site is good enough. Unfortunately I can't to find there something similar about Mech/Cav corps.
Corps # - formed(date) - composition(divisions and brigades-kap(Corps art rgt)-ozadn(sep AA btn)-osapb(sep sapper btn)-obs(sep communication btn)) -
- location and subordination - fate of Corps HQ
About varous tank formations there is site http://tankfront.ru/ussr/ussr.html. I don't know how is it can be usefull for you because it's on Russian. But there are many good info about various tank/mech and some cav formations. Unfortunately there are nothing about Mech corps of start of the war, only about formed in 1942. But there are a lot about brigades,battalions etc, various Shtats(TOEs).
If about cavalry I know this.
This site is good enough. Unfortunately I can't to find there something similar about Mech/Cav corps.
(of 1st table)translation of the headings under composition
Corps # - formed(date) - composition(divisions and brigades-kap(Corps art rgt)-ozadn(sep AA btn)-osapb(sep sapper btn)-obs(sep communication btn)) -
- location and subordination - fate of Corps HQ
About varous tank formations there is site http://tankfront.ru/ussr/ussr.html. I don't know how is it can be usefull for you because it's on Russian. But there are many good info about various tank/mech and some cav formations. Unfortunately there are nothing about Mech corps of start of the war, only about formed in 1942. But there are a lot about brigades,battalions etc, various Shtats(TOEs).
If about cavalry I know this.
-
Dreamslayer
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:37 pm
- Location: St.Petersburg
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
Some examples from http://tankfront.ru/ussr/ussr.html :
Tank brigades - http://tankfront.ru/ussr/tbr.html
Tank regiments - http://tankfront.ru/ussr/tp.html
Shtats(TOEs) - http://tankfront.ru/ussr/staff.html
Tank brigades - http://tankfront.ru/ussr/tbr.html
Tank regiments - http://tankfront.ru/ussr/tp.html
Shtats(TOEs) - http://tankfront.ru/ussr/staff.html
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
Do you have some info regarding the AA Bns assigned to Rifle corps ?
medium or light flak ?
more or less standard 12-gun Bn or different composition ?
medium or light flak ?
more or less standard 12-gun Bn or different composition ?
WitE dev team - (aircraft data)
WitE 1.08+ dev team (data/scenario maintainer)
WitW dev team (aircraft data, partial data/scenario maintainer)
WitE2 dev team (aircraft data)
WitE 1.08+ dev team (data/scenario maintainer)
WitW dev team (aircraft data, partial data/scenario maintainer)
WitE2 dev team (aircraft data)
-
Dreamslayer
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:37 pm
- Location: St.Petersburg
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
Looks like AA battalions of Rifle Corps at start of the war had in their TOE 12 medium guns and AAMG company. But their Shtat(TOE) was not similar in details as Shtat of PVO battalions. Probably there was difference in men total ,transport etc .
It's hard to say about these details, atm I can only say about:
PVO btn - Shtat(TOE) # - 50/41(peace-time) - 050/41(war-time)
AA btn of Rifle Corps - Shtat(TOE) # - 50/21(peace-time) 298 men total - 050/21(war-time)
For example, at start of the war at basis of 27th AA btn(19th RC/23th A) starts deploys 486th AA btn(hard to say what kind of; PVO,RGK or something else). But from report on 8 July this btn had Shtat 673 men total(actually had only 539)and had no any guns.
From report about AA artillery of 23A on 21 September 27th,241th and 485th AA battalions had TOE (12 medium and 0 light guns).
It's hard to say about these details, atm I can only say about:
PVO btn - Shtat(TOE) # - 50/41(peace-time) - 050/41(war-time)
AA btn of Rifle Corps - Shtat(TOE) # - 50/21(peace-time) 298 men total - 050/21(war-time)
For example, at start of the war at basis of 27th AA btn(19th RC/23th A) starts deploys 486th AA btn(hard to say what kind of; PVO,RGK or something else). But from report on 8 July this btn had Shtat 673 men total(actually had only 539)and had no any guns.
From report about AA artillery of 23A on 21 September 27th,241th and 485th AA battalions had TOE (12 medium and 0 light guns).
-
Dreamslayer
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:37 pm
- Location: St.Petersburg
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
The date of reforming Motorized divisions to Rifle divisions.
I don't know when it was changed but now it happens in December. I guess it is too late date.
All Motorized divisions was reformed to Rifle divisions or disbanded during July-September.
There are was also Moto-infantry divisons that had mainly similar fate with the exception of 3 units:
82th Moto-rifle division - (in the Active Army 22.10.41-19.3.42), in October was moved from Siberia to Western Front, in March renamed to 3rd Guard Moto-rifle division
101th Moto-rifle division - (in the Active Army 16.9.41-20.10.41), reformed from 101th Tank division, disbanded
107th Moto-rifle division - (in the Active Army 16.9.41-12.1.42), reformed from 107th Tank division, in January renamed to 2nd Guard Moto-infantry division
There is also story about metamorphosis of 1st Motorized division. 1st MD => 1st TD => 1st Guard Moto-infantry. But it's a bit difficult = )
Motorized and Moto-infantry divisions in the Active Army - http://www.teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/Perec ... 05_03.html
Motorized division - Motorizovannaya diviziya - Моторизованная дивизия
Moto-infantry division - Motostrelkovaya diviziya - Мотострелковая дивизия
I don't know when it was changed but now it happens in December. I guess it is too late date.
All Motorized divisions was reformed to Rifle divisions or disbanded during July-September.
There are was also Moto-infantry divisons that had mainly similar fate with the exception of 3 units:
82th Moto-rifle division - (in the Active Army 22.10.41-19.3.42), in October was moved from Siberia to Western Front, in March renamed to 3rd Guard Moto-rifle division
101th Moto-rifle division - (in the Active Army 16.9.41-20.10.41), reformed from 101th Tank division, disbanded
107th Moto-rifle division - (in the Active Army 16.9.41-12.1.42), reformed from 107th Tank division, in January renamed to 2nd Guard Moto-infantry division
There is also story about metamorphosis of 1st Motorized division. 1st MD => 1st TD => 1st Guard Moto-infantry. But it's a bit difficult = )
Motorized and Moto-infantry divisions in the Active Army - http://www.teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/Perec ... 05_03.html
Motorized division - Motorizovannaya diviziya - Моторизованная дивизия
Moto-infantry division - Motostrelkovaya diviziya - Мотострелковая дивизия
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
I have now split the PVO and Army AA Bns, they have the same equipment but different OBs. Only the Army Bns will be producible.
Regarding 7th Naval inf Bde - are you sure it shouldn't be a naval rifle Bde (AFAIR Inf = navy control, rifle = army control) ?
Mot divs should auto-reform once they are shattered or otherwise destroyed, december is just for the survivors.
Regarding 7th Naval inf Bde - are you sure it shouldn't be a naval rifle Bde (AFAIR Inf = navy control, rifle = army control) ?
Mot divs should auto-reform once they are shattered or otherwise destroyed, december is just for the survivors.
WitE dev team - (aircraft data)
WitE 1.08+ dev team (data/scenario maintainer)
WitW dev team (aircraft data, partial data/scenario maintainer)
WitE2 dev team (aircraft data)
WitE 1.08+ dev team (data/scenario maintainer)
WitW dev team (aircraft data, partial data/scenario maintainer)
WitE2 dev team (aircraft data)
-
Dreamslayer
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:37 pm
- Location: St.Petersburg
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues
And why is players can't to form new PVO units? Why not?I have now split the PVO and Army AA Bns, they have the same equipment but different OBs. Only the Army Bns will be producible.
Ok if it's limitation of some huge AA units like PVO regiments in Leningrad/Moscow(around 100 medium guns each). But why can't to forming standart PVO btn(12 medium guns)?
If about names of Naval brigades. There was various names of these units.Regarding 7th Naval inf Bde - are you sure it shouldn't be a naval rifle Bde (AFAIR Inf = navy control, rifle = army control) ?
On 22 June was only one Naval brigade - 1st Special Naval Infantry brigade(1 Osobaya brigada morskoy pekhoty).
Then starts forming new Naval brigade units - 2nd-7th by Baltic Fleet and 7th-9th by Black See Fleet. All these units first time was named just "Naval brigade/Morskaya brigada", and later they get name "Naval Infantry".
Around autumn and later starts forming Naval rifle brigades/Morskaya strelkovaya brigada, they had higher # in their name.
Yes, probably "Inf" normally was subordinated to "Navy"/VMF, but situation at front was so difficult that these units was mostly used in RKKA. In VMF they was only for some amphibious ops and defence of the naval bases.
Later during war was many various reformings of Naval brigades: from/to normal infantry brigades, mountain brigades.
So, first brigades that better to call "Naval infantry" mainly was used closer to seas/lakes(like Ladoga). And "Naval rifle" was used everywhere(during Moscow,Stalingrad battles etc).
But shattered that was not only reason of reforming MDs to RDs before december, some divisions was reformed when they was in "normal status". Very likely because of lack of trucks,tanks etc.Mot divs should auto-reform once they are shattered or otherwise destroyed, december is just for the survivors.