How to ruin the game?

[AlvaroSousa]

I have fixed the French fleet raspberry run-bys.
I have a solution for the throw away fleet.
I have a solution for France 1940.

Basically I see France as falling between June and August depending on a variety of factors.

Good player with the "Big BEF" defense vs good player August but at a sacrifice of BoA.

But September or worse is not good for the game.

[sillyflower]

Sensible objectives, but I shall miss the raspberry. Every true Englishman should fight to the last french sailor [8D]

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

I have fixed the French fleet raspberry run-bys.
I have a solution for the throw away fleet.
I have a solution for France 1940.

Please also check this Naval Bombardment usage:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4991825

[ncc1701e]

Could you please also check the following?

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4991900
and
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4991914

Thanks

[kennonlightfoot]

Here are the results from my hot seat test. My strategy for the Germans was to use the armor to kill the front Allied line then pull it back when it got down to its last two movement points and replace it with infantry which could then soften the line for the next armor drive. Then repeat. This required the German's to produce a lot of trucks to keep the armor useable.

With the German forces I was able to produce I was able to take all the border countries in one turn.

For the Allies I found they just didn't have the quality of units to waste on counter attacks when only infantry was available as targets. Their air power did very well though and was probably the main cause of future production point loss when the Germans rebuild it.

German: Land: 207 Air: 91 Navy: 17
UK: Land: 154 Air: 47 Navy: 0

The Germans suffered no Shattered units.
The UK suffered the loss of 1 Armor, 1 Mech, and 1 Small Inf Corps.

The break through to Paris was sufficiently rapid when it did occur (7/19 turn) that the British couldn't shift any of their units to the Mediterranean area. They had to go by way of Gibraltar with Navy escort.

The UK problem isn't England since their Fleet can protect it and the Units in France can easily reach it's ports in time. Their problem is Egypt. I didn't really seriously test this but I built 2 It marine units and 4 Landing ships. But there one Armor and Mech units with some infantry easily broke through the UK line. The UK problem being if all there full strength (large) Infantry Corps and Armor are in France then there is nothing in the Egyptian desert to stop the Italians. I was also able to take Syria with the Italians although the Italian fleet took a serious beating. I am relatively sure that if the Germans had also prepared to support the Italians and the Italians had built more invasion forces they could take Egypt before the UK could shift enough Troops there.

What I don't know is if the Germans have enough force and building potential to take on Russia in 41.

I also don't know what the UK losing the Middle East would do to the UK economy. I suspect it would cause considerable problems but I don't know how much it effects there production.

Oddly, the Germans did poorly in my game in the BoA. They sank 26 UK merchants and 1 Escort but at the cost of 17 factors in Subs. I don't know whether that was just bad luck or if v10 of the game has made some changes to the BoA balance.

[AlvaroSousa]

I tested the situation last night and came up with very similar results to you. I did exactly, and have always done, what you posted above.

As for the BoA exchange....
You sank 260 PP of MM + 40 PP if ES = 300 PP of convoys stuff
You lost 102 PP of submarines.

132PP 1940 sub / 5 strength = 26 PP per strength
26 X .25 repair cost = 102

remember it rounds down.
So even though you did crappy you did well.

There are some issues that I did fix. Like now air units won't intercept navies UNLESS they are in naval mission mode, just like supply attacks.
If a fleet is in port it won't be able to do off shore support.

Originally I set the UK up as completely historical. But it was too easy to invade them and conquer Egypt. So I beefed them up a some.

As for the aircraft ratio loss yea it's off. I might make some adjustments somewhere.

[ComadrejaKorp]

German: Land: 207 Air: 91 Navy: 17
UK: Land: 154 Air: 47 Navy: 0

The Germans suffered no Shattered units.
The UK suffered the loss of 1 Armor, 1 Mech, and 1 Small Inf Corps.

If I suffered only these losses I would not complain, these losses are the correct ones to continue a balanced game.
I may be doing something wrong, in the AARs in progress we will see it.

[AlvaroSousa]

What I am doing

Fixing the French Fleet support from port issue. They shouldnt be able to

Air units now will only intercept naval when set to naval mission, but still support land. It will be just like supply interdiction.

I reduced the starting UK forces back to historical now that the game has been flushed out. I had to add to their forces to prevent an easy German invasion. But since we improved invasion rules and added naval rules I can put them back to historical. They will lose about 100 starting strength but all of these are repairs not raw builds. So this should put even more pressure on the decision to go all out in France or not. I don't want players quitting in August 1940 because it is too hard. Not fair to anyone. Like every game I make your decisions are a balance of give and take with a zero sum outcome if your opponent plays optimally. In this case how fast do you want France to fall? The range should be June to August.

Disposable French Fleet - I am considering how to implement a morale adjustment for lost ships for countries you can negotiate a surrender with. This basically would translate into a smaller Vichy, earlier surrender, or possible capture of naval groups for the Axis. Still deciding.

[sillyflower]

I'm not sure that screwing over the UK starting land forces is going to keep the balance for those of us who don't use the all-in tactic.

[stjeand]

I would be happy to play someone that tries the rolling armor. I have tried that there is just does not seem to be enough hexes to do that in the front.
Maybe I am not playing well.


I guess we would need to test it. Maybe we just do not need a fix for it...Just play better.
I don't really use most of the UK starting units. I might use 1...but mostly just builds.

In the one I am playtesting I have...

UK 2 Armor / 2 Mech / 5 Inf
France 1 Armor and not sure...a lot of Inf.


Any screen shots? I want to see what you had set up...
How many trucks did you use? Honestly I stopped using them completely. Cost appears to be above the gain, at least for me but then maybe I am wrong as I went through 100 points in 3 turns. The return is just 2 more attacks per unit. Maybe that is good and what need to occur.

Not sure how you did not get the UK units to Africa though. As soon as a unit is worn...hit the rail lines to the south and transport out to Africa.

I will have to retest.

[ComadrejaKorp]

Don't go crazy, I use supply trucks and I get results similar to yours, they are not the solution.

[stjeand]

I would appreciate your thoughts on the attached...

So this is my defense in France.

[stjeand]

Now the attack was pretty aggressive...maybe this is not what you would have done but would like to know what you might change in how it looks

Here is France after the first round.

I am the defender here...the question is...

What would you do?

[ComadrejaKorp]

It seems to me a very big problem to go through it!

[ncc1701e]

Here is my idea:
1. Switch the 3-2 French army by your UK armored corps
2. Put everything on air to soften the 10-5 German infantry corps and do your best attack
3. If the German infantry corps retreats in the designated hex
4. You have a nice pocket to clear.

[ncc1701e]

But perhaps put everything in your AARs.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

What I am doing

Fixing the French Fleet support from port issue. They shouldnt be able to

Air units now will only intercept naval when set to naval mission, but still support land. It will be just like supply interdiction.

I reduced the starting UK forces back to historical now that the game has been flushed out. I had to add to their forces to prevent an easy German invasion. But since we improved invasion rules and added naval rules I can put them back to historical. They will lose about 100 starting strength but all of these are repairs not raw builds. So this should put even more pressure on the decision to go all out in France or not. I don't want players quitting in August 1940 because it is too hard. Not fair to anyone. Like every game I make your decisions are a balance of give and take with a zero sum outcome if your opponent plays optimally. In this case how fast do you want France to fall? The range should be June to August.

Disposable French Fleet - I am considering how to implement a morale adjustment for lost ships for countries you can negotiate a surrender with. This basically would translate into a smaller Vichy, earlier surrender, or possible capture of naval groups for the Axis. Still deciding.

Thanks Alvaro. Would you please also consider this?

ORIGINAL: Ancient One

France begins with several corps that have 50% experience (mostly on the Maginot Line). I suggest this be reduced to 40% like the others.

This would avoid the micro management the French player is always doing game after game.

[stjeand]

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Here is my idea:
1. Switch the 3-2 French army by your UK armored corps
2. Put everything on air to soften the 10-5 German infantry corps and do your best attack
3. If the German infantry corps retreats in the designated hex
4. You have a nice pocket to clear.

the

OH I did...shattered the 2 Inf corps
Pocketed them...had 2 fresh units on the line with Germany.

BUT FORGOT TO TAKE PICS...

So talked with Comadreja and decided to do the turn again...just waiting to see what other think and the thoughts they have for the Germans.

[stjeand]

This is what the turn looked like after the French counter attack.
Perhaps the Germans overstretched...they did cripple 2 French 50% experience units. They will be back in a few turns I hope. And the French armor is worn but...

[MorningDew]

I repeat - historically the UK could never have fielded that kind of army - I believe what is shown exceeds the UK army at home, in France and in Africa in 1940.