Sailing in harms way: InHarmsWay (J) vs Andav (A) Scen2

[InHarmsWay]

Back from Vacation!

Q-Ball, Thanks for the interest in the thread! I am sure I will miss a few units, but you are generally correct in your prediction of my PP spend. The last unit I bought out was the 20th Inf Div. I have left it in pieces to give me more flexibility for the moment. It was high exp so a good choice. So far, I have focused on the heavy Art units in Manchuria, those have gone to the PI campaign initially, and are now on their way to Calcutta. All of the Tank unit in Manchuria / Korea have also been bought out and are spearheading the China invasion. I did buy the Guards Mixed Bgde that went to Rabaul. It seems Chinese squads are deathly allergic to any AFV... , especially in the open ground. I have bought out a few air units from single engine to twin engine bombers as Anne/Sonja/Ida don't quite cut the mustard and just get my precious pilots killed.

One thing I did do on turn one was to replace all the less than stellar ship captains on any ship sized CA or larger. This included upgrading to high Naval ratings for CV captains as I believe??? that helps with dodging torps and bombs that they attract. I do upgrade my LCU (division sized and Tank Rgmts) with good leaders as well, but that is my extent of leader shuffling, unless I see a particularly atrocious leader. I believe Adm Wa does quite a bit more in this regards.

Yes, agree that I will need more that 2 rgmts in Ceylon, additional units are enroute!

[InHarmsWay]

OK, got a question on game engine mechanics... I am wanting to isolate Calcutta by controlling the hex edges. Currently I am feeling exposed by "owning" only the SW hex edge of Calcutta. My plan is to have the Imperial Gds div and the 113th Inf Rgmt assault across the river into Calcutta at the same time I launch a deliberate assault with the three divisions in Calcutta, and the soon to arrive 6th Gds Division. Also I will drop paras on the hex that turn and hopefully get a assault bonus with the 21st Army HQ, which will be within 18 (will be 12 hexes away) hexes of the Southern Army Command HQ. I seem to remember that a command HQ can help a Army HQ if it is within twice its command range....

March 06 1942 Calcutta attack plan.jpg (313.17 KiB) Viewed 799 times

My question is will the deliberate attack within the hex help mitigate the damage the two river crossing units will take? Are the units within the hex assaulting at full strength as well, or do they also get penalized by the river crossing?. I assume they go in at full strength, but I never have good luck on river assaults!!! I am hoping the river crossing units will be sufficient to then control those hex sides, which will allow me to more easily move units through Calcutta, and maybe then have a better chance of pocketing them as well. Yes, grand plans and all....

[RangerJoe]

Only the units crossing the river will shock attack unless you give orders for the other units to shock attack. If you give the units not crossing the river deliberate attack orders, then that is what they will do. However, it will still show up as a shock attack if at least one unit has a shock attack.

[RangerJoe]

Once you have the units, you may want to make a complete line with units so you will completely stop any supplies going into Bengal as well as oil/fuel flowing the other direction.

[PaxMondo]

...

One thing I did do on turn one was to replace all the less than stellar ship captains on any ship sized CA or larger. This included upgrading to high Naval ratings for CV captains as I believe??? that helps with dodging torps and bombs that they attract. ...

You may also find that higher NAV leaders will help with damage control. I'm not saying a lot of help, but with the IJN you need every little bit ....

[PaxMondo]

Plane Research
Initial plans have the following research paths: I counted 106 Factories…
• 10 factories covering the zero line (3 A6M2, and 7 on A6M3) – some will move to A7M3-J in late ’42 early 43 once I have enough built out
• 7 factories covering the Sam (A7M2)
• 4 factories on Jills, and 4 on Judy lines
• 2 factories on Shinden… may move but holding for now
• 2 factories on Oscars
• 6 factories on Tojos
• 6 factories on Ki-83s
• 12 factories on Franks – Ki-84a (plan on skipping Ki-84b)
• 12 factories on Nik1–J George (plan on skipping NiK2 and go to NiK5)
• 4 factories on Helen 49- Ia
• 3 on P1Y1 Frances
• Lots of planes with 1-2 planes each
All of the research factories will be built out to 30. Gambling I will not need a lot of the first generation Vals, Kates, oscars, Nells and Bettys, so will only have 1-2 factories for each…. Hoping to run lean initially here. Last game I over produced a bunch of the first gen planes…

Engines: I count 30 factories:
1 * Aichi Ha-60 -0 Initial target build out of 80/mon
1 * Mits Ha-31 - Initial target build out of 45/mon
3 * Mits Ha-32 - Initial target build out of 110/mon
4 * Mits Ha-33 - Initial target build out of 120/mon
4 * Mits Ha-43 - Initial target build out of 120/mon
2 * Nakaj Ha-34 - Initial target build out of 20/mon
7 * Nakaj Ha-35 - Initial target build out of 250/mon
2 * Nakaj Ha-44 - Initial target build out of 60/mon
6 * Nakaj Ha-45 - Initial target build out of 180/mon

I may need more Nak Ha-35s as I want the 500 engine research bonus. One of my key strategies is to get the later war fighters quickly to minimize experienced pilot losses and keep the attrition levels favorable. I am also going to build the late war kamikaze planes this time around, seem to remember reading a post recently by Lowpe or Obvert? that talked about the Ki-115a/b as being underappreciated. In game 1, I used old zeros and other early war planes... my Kami's were not that successful!

Initial build out of the factories will be gradual, depending on supplies, HI and just making sure I do not crash the economy.

Thoughts / comments are welcome. The Japanese economy and plane/engine build is really an art form!

I'm coming into your AAR late, sorry, but better late than never. You may still be able to use some of my thoughts here in this game, or consider them for the future.

Historically, the IJ bungled their aircraft pretty badly. From the allied perspective, it would have been hard to manage it any better. So, as a player, we need to learn from their mistakes.
1. Your overall RnD capacity is no where near the allies. So, focus as best you can on each mission type. Get your mission types well defined. Use your hindsight to plan for the optimal mission mix for each stage of the war. Meaning early war, you are on the offensive (NOT defensive). You need range, coordination, and bombs. Mid-war it is stalemate: you are converting from offensive to defensive. So, still need some early war, but you are moving to late war. Late war is defensive and counter-attacks. You need good reaction (climb), numbers, torpedoes (anti-Nav) and some bombs (night bombing will be your friend, don't need escorts). Now pick out the models in each era that meet the mission criteria. You should only choose ONE (1) model for each mission in each era. Focus on that model.

EX: Naval Fighter A6M2 -> N1K1->A7M2. If you push the N1K1 hard (at least 12 RnD), you can get it early '43. Sure, the A6M3 is a little better than the A6M2, but IJ flew the A6M2 almost the entire war because until you get to the A6M5c the differences are pretty small. The N1K1 represents a BIG upgrade. The A7M2 is also a BIG upgrade which if you really force the RnD (again, at least 12 factories) you can see it in early-mid '44. CV Airgroups are stuck with A6M2 until A7M2 arrives, but they should only have to potentially face F6F for 6 months or less (and you can choose NOT to commit the KB during this time, right? You do have LBA forces ...). Naval ground based air groups are A6M2 until N1K1 arrives, well before the F6F and P47 and in greater numbers. Then they move to the A7M2 which is as good as they will ever get, and it is a good fighter. You can swap the J2M2 for the N1K1 if you think you will be more defensive in early '43.

Now, go through the rest of the Naval missions (DB, TB, etc). Use a jaundiced eye, is Jill that much better than Kate? Val is useless, but Judy range is a REAL problem. Do you really want to fight your CV's knowing that the allies can hit you 3 or more hexes further than you? Grace is heaven sent, and half the cost of the Francis (except no armor), but does that really matter? These are all questions that your answers to will dictate your strategy and tactics during the war. There isn't a single answer here, but each answer if followed through carries the seeds of victory for the IJ.

Now do the same for the IJA aircraft. Similar conflicts and trade-offs are there. Like the Ki-84a: with focus, you can get it in early '43; before the P47 arrives and in far greater numbers ...

hopefully these ramblings make some sense ...

[PaxMondo]

...
I am also going to build the late war kamikaze planes this time around, seem to remember reading a post recently by Lowpe or Obvert? that talked about the Ki-115a/b as being underappreciated. In game 1, I used old zeros and other early war planes... my Kami's were not that successful!
...

One thing to keep in mind, and a lot of IJ players miss it is: There is a max total number of aircraft that the IJ can build in the game. Seriously. You can calculate it based upon the amount of HI you will build. It is a finite number.

So, do you want to build them in the early game, mid-game or late game? You have the choice. But just remember if you built 10,000 A6M2 and Ki-44's early, don't think that you will be able to build all that many Ki-84 and A7M2, because you won't.

Ditto for kami's. Yes, the Ki-115/Toka is a heckuva kami. If you have them stationed in a staffed and built airbase within 5 hexes of an amphib landing, you can make that landing a real nightmare for the allies if you have enough fighters (Ki-84/A7M2) to allow them to punch through. BUT, that is a D4Y4, or B7A2, Ki-102c that you didn't build. Which would you prefer?

[InHarmsWay]

PaxMondo! Welcome to the thread. I did not know the total airframe limit on the Japanese side. I do think I will be ok now that I know this as I have deliberately not built out many of the early airframes and am concentrating on research. My thoughts at the moment as follows:

IJN Naval Fighter - A6M2 likely throughout '42, hoping to boost research line to the A6M5c as that has armor and better guns as soon as I can. The last game, I was able to get the M5c early '43. I have 8 research factories on the M3 now, and once that comes online (ie 30 producing, 0 repair), then move to A6M3a's with several of them. Goal is to upgrade each quickly in turn until we get to the A6M5c. I do not skip any of the airframes as I feel it is gamey to jump research over a few and end up getting a M5c well before the M5b is available. I will fly the A6M3a until the c comes online, and will not build any A6M3, A6M5, A6M5b if I can help it. Mid war, like you mentioned is more attrition and there is not much need for long range attacks. I will focus on Georges here, have 12 factories as well, but I do wrestle with which George to use as the main airframe. the N1K1 or N1K5? I really like the high altitude of the earlier one, but the K5 has better guns and speed. I probably will keep with the N1K1... Also researching Sam with 6 factories, on the chance I have CVs in 44... As an aside, have over 500 Ha-35, so will get the research bonus now!

IJA Fighters - I will limp along with the Oscar (but will keep one factory through the end of war researching and eventually producing the Ki-43-IV as it seems to have good maneuverability, ok speed, decent range and carries bombs. It will me my IJA fighter Kami. I am trying to get Tojo's quickly, mainly to keep the slaughter of Oscars down. Will not really build many Tojos if I can help it. Goal is mid and late war Franks and Ki-83s. Have 12 factories on Frank -a frames. I also really had success with Ki-83s later with Walter so may switch a Tojo factory or two over to them once I get Tojos at the front lines.

One area I struggled with was what to do with Japanese bombers... likely by mid game, they will be on ASW partrol, with exp of 70+. That did seem to work against Adm Wa last game. Any elite pilots will got to TRACOM.

summarizing, I am planning on trying to keep late war parity with the allies in the air, at the expense of mass early war air. That all depends on getting research online quickly and in volume.

[PaxMondo]

The limit is based solely on HI. Normally, if you follow historical airframe builds, you will have a HUGE pot of HI saved up by mid '44, enough to keep your economy going after the B29 have pulverized it to dust. BUT, a lot of IJ players will overbuild their airframes in '42 (because they can), but this is using up that HI reserve. Then in '44, they simply do not have the HI to build with ... so they get to fight the end game with Ki-44's instead of Ki-84's. That's far from ideal to most people.

Playing the IJ for years, here are some of my realizations about the IJ airframes.
1. A6M. They all basically s*%^ after about 6/42. They are simply too slow, too lightly gunned. The sooner you get the N1K1 (or the J2M2) you have made a HUGE improvement. Yes, you are still stuck with the A6M on your CV's, but in reality they don't see that much use. It's your LBA IJN Fighters that are in the fight all the time because until Ki-84, the IJN fighters are WAY better.
Sure, the A6M5c is better than the A6M2, but how much? You want to fly the A6M5c or the N1K1? Simple answer: N1K1. So I suggest going for that. Working on the A6M5c isn't going to return much because you simply won't use it much. how many days of actual combat do your CV's see after 6/42? For me, the answer is very few days/month. Once I get my expansion perimeter established, I can park my CV's, deploy the airgroups and move them theatre to theatre far quicker and cheaper than if they are on a CV. Think about it. H6K2-L can move an HQ-air 25 hexes in one turn ... and only costs about 50 supply ... moving a CV group? 15 hexes and 100's of fuel each turn ... and in a CV battle, armor doesn't matter as much because pilot recovery from the sea is lousy, meaning, you are going to lose a ton of pilots no matter if you have armor or not.

2. Ki-43 worse than the A6M in every way. Slower, less armament. Nightmare. That's why I would want every IJN fighter group in action to relieve as many of these as I can. Ki-44 is a brilliant defensive interceptor. Really. But the short legs (max DT 8) means on offense it is really, really expensive in terms of supply. You have to build up almost twice as many air bases as compared to A6M due to the short range, and you are using double the supply each day as well because of the DT's. This gets back to why the Ki-84 is so critical. So, this gets back to the A6M trade-off against the Ki-43 ... you use half the supply and have a better fighter. The Ki-43 is backup, yes, not as good as the Ki-44, but operation costs are much lower. If you focus on the Ki-84 you get it that much sooner and this is the plane you want anyway.

3. Supply. Japan always runs out of supply, always. The key to the end game is pushing that as far out into '45 ('46 if you possible) as you can. To do that, you have to start in '41. Fuel is rarely the issue, supply always is.
- Don't build up bases unless needed.
- Don't use DT's unless necessary and work to make that as little as possible
- Watch replacements and upgrades. You need to do them, but NOT ALL of them. Managing this can save TONS of supply.
- Watch spoilage on atolls, especially during the expansion phase. You can lose 1000's of supply in a day.

This is all economic foo-foo stuff. You still have to win battles, have a strategy, etc. But, in the standard scenarios, barring major mistakes by the allies, or a max rush strategy by the IJ, the war will go to '45 or later. For IJ to be in the war at that time, she needs supply. That's where all this economic foo-foo comes in.

[PaxMondo]

The upshot of my suggestions is this:
For most IJ players, '42 after about Mar '42 is like cruise control, easy driving. Whatever you want to do, pretty much you can do. And then '43 comes along and it slowly, steadily tightens up until '44 arrives and by then it is a nightmare for the IJ as they can rarely do anything and its just one disaster after another.

All these RnD trade-offs make '42 a lot more work for the IJ player. Shuffling air groups around, working with A6M2 instead of Ki-44's, etc etc etc.

But then '43 comes and here you are flying both N1K1 and Ki-84 in early '43. That noose doesn't tighten nearly so much. And then the '44 starts, but whoa ... now you have the A7M2 which really rocks. The allies can still hit you hard wherever they want, BUT now your reaction has some real umph to it. You got Ki-84's and A7M2's clearing the way, and they actually can clear the way as opposed to being just sacrificial laminate.

BTW: I've gotten the Ki-84 as early as Jan 43 with 16 RnD factories. That only happened once, but wow, what a game that was. I really put the hurt on fast. Normally, I get it about Mar '43. N1K1 should happen Jan/Feb '42 with 12 RnD. On all of these dates there is a fair amount of randomness which is why more RnD factories really will work. Think about it ...

[InHarmsWay]

Great Points, PaxMondo, I have done a review of planes and found quite a bit were flying with drop tanks, even through it was not needed. I will also be increasing Ki-83's factories soon, once I get the Ki-44's in action. Also may steal a factory or two from bombers to also increase Ki-83 plane arrival. I really liked that plane in the previous game (had gotten it early as well).

Given all this talk about Heavy Industry, supply and such, I thought I would post the currently general status of the Emperor's Economy. Here is the current status, I have most of the refineries running out at Palembang, Balikpapan, and elsewhere in order to generate supply out nearer the front lines. Effectively I have increased Vehicle production, but left most everything else alone so far (maybe a small tweak here or there). I will let armaments run for a while longer but may turn off a few in '43. Last game I ended with ~300k points of armaments so that was not super efficient.

March 12 1942 economy.jpg (196.01 KiB) Viewed 667 times

[InHarmsWay]

The recent river assault in Calcutta went well, only one rgmt was trashed in the attack (but really trashed!!), and now both main roads out of the city are mine. I have started moving units out and can now start pushing the front into China. Of concern however is the British 18th Div may be escaping. Last turn it was moving into the dot base hex, now it is trying for the open road hex. I have been bombing it daily, and will move the tanks to cover. They should arrive before it to force a river crossing. Still, not ideal and would like a inf division out there to help....

March 12 1942 India.jpg (669.51 KiB) Viewed 662 times

The last real key is the road out to the NW into Howrah. I have a Inf Rgmt moving in from the west, and will use the Imperial Gds Div currently moving out of Calcutta to shock attack from the east...

Elsewhere, Bataan has now been reduced to 0 forts, and should fall in the next few days. Java has been almost entirely liberated from the hated European overlords, with just Soerabaja being the holdout. KB is mobilizing to support the Darwin and north Australian invasions, and China is slowed a bit while the IJA continues to wear down the Chinese.

[InHarmsWay]

March 12 1942 Calcutta army.jpg (212.78 KiB) Viewed 660 times

Gentle readers, here are the current units in Calcutta. The IGD is moving NE to flank attack Howrah, and another Division is moving out to the east, hopefully to engage the British 18th Div. The trashed 113 inf rgmt will also move out to Howrah for garrison duties.

Diamond Harbor now has a lvl 3 airfield, working on building the port to lvl 2.

One question I have is how important for coordination is it to have the Inf Divisions to be under the same army group as the HQ in hex? (21st Army HQ vs 25th Army)? If needed I can retrieve the 21st Army HQ from Java.

[PaxMondo]

I will let armaments run for a while longer but may turn off a few in '43. Last game I ended with ~300k points of armaments so that was not super efficient.

Actually, that isn't bad at all. If you look at the unit arrivals for 1945->End game you will see quite a few emergency call up divisions. IF (caps intentional) you get that late in the game, you will use all of that 300K and then some.

I would only cut back on the ARM build if, when looking at last game and looking forward in this game, you feel that you needed the HI used to build those ARM for something else like Aircraft/Engines. Otherwise, the stockpile of ARM is a good thing to have as long as your HI pool is also quite strong. Ideally, you want your NSY/MSY/ARM/VEH pools to be good enough to get you through the end of the game builds with enough HI to build whatever Aircraft you need. That settles your building economy.

The truth is that you will most likely NOT have enough supply to get your units deployed on map ... IJ always lacks supply end game.

For more reading on this, check out this old thread ... it was written when most of this of being discovered by some of the best players of that time ... you can see how many of the current economic strategies evolved from its discussions ... and yes it is quite long ... 28 pages

tm.asp?m=2597400

and this one from Damien (one of the authors of Tracker)
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 6&t=211385

[PaxMondo]

Given all this talk about Heavy Industry, supply and such, I thought I would post the currently general status of the Emperor's Economy. Here is the current status, I have most of the refineries running out at Palembang, Balikpapan, and elsewhere in order to generate supply out nearer the front lines. Effectively I have increased Vehicle production, but left most everything else alone so far (maybe a small tweak here or there).

As you read the Econ Mistakes thread by BigRed, you will see a lot of discussion about Oil/Refineries. You are currently running a pretty significant oil deficit against your refining ... suggesting that you may have repaired too many refineries. Be careful, do not allow Honshu to run out of fuel. you do not want Honshu HI machine to stop, that would be very bad.

Remote supply generation is good, but not at the cost of shutting down the Home Isle economy. It is a balance.

Not increasing anything but VEH is conservative, but not necessarily bad. It all depends upon your strategy. In a stock scenario like this, I tend to support the conservative economy because it allows for maximum aircraft build and that is your greatest strength in a PDU ON game.

And always watch your supply level, on and empire wide basis and Home Isle (HI) basis. you want BOTH growing steadily from about 1 April 42 onwards ... ditto HI pool. Should be on a growth trend now until the allies get B29's in action.

[PaxMondo]

One question I have is how important for coordination is it to have the Inf Divisions to be under the same army group as the HQ in hex? (21st Army HQ vs 25th Army)? If needed I can retrieve the 21st Army HQ from Java.

My understanding is that it is color only, there is no in-game impact. Having an HQc, HQy, and HQcommand in range will give you all the potential combat bonuses.

EDIT: Some PBEM's have house rules about this though ... so check with your partner about it.

[InHarmsWay]

Several significant things have happened gentle readers, first off, Bataan has fallen a few days ago, and the IJN is currently sweeping the inlet to Manila for mines. Evil Admiral Wa left quite a few presents, so this is taking several days! My upcoming invasion of norther Australia is progressing, with landing imminent. Will post a map shortly. The decadent western imperialistic colonial powers are now reduced to just Soerabaja on Java. Bombardments have been ordered.

Finally, the main event. Here is the current situation map. Adm Wa is committing most of his good large land based units here, which I am ok with as it gives me a chance to cause significant casualties and hamstring the allies well into 42 and maybe early '43.

March 17 1942 India front.jpg (643.7 KiB) Viewed 590 times

I have several Divisions that are now threatening his rear area outside of Calcutta. I am targeting one of the Manila Divisions to move to India, with the other to Australia. In 2 weeks, the 4th Guards Div arrives in Cam Ranh Bay, and will also go to India. I feel I can win the buildup in India at least until June/July. Key will be to reduce the trapped units by then, allowing me to then reposition. I am still not planning on taking all of India...

In Ceylon, Trincomalee has fallen, and I am marching towards Colombo. I have 2 Inf rgmts, and 2 armd units, and an Engineer unit tagged here.

[InHarmsWay]

China is still a bit of a mess, but I have started cracking eggs in earnest, hoping for a nice omelet in a few weeks. The AVG has not shown itself in quite a while, after being mauled while defending Rangoon, then Calcutta. One mistake I have made here is too much AV up near Sian, making it a bit of a bottleneck. I am sending a division overland from Sian to try and loosen things up.

March 17 1942 China.jpg (850.09 KiB) Viewed 588 times

In our last game, Chungking fell in November of 42, I am hoping to get there earlier if I can. One big piece of this is the isolation of China from British supply flights out of Ledo. Also the very early cutting of the Burma road was a priority.

On the Economic front, thank you PaxMondo for the information. I have done a sizeable purge of supply waste. Supplies were my Achilles heel last game! You also motivated me to put three more factories onto Ki-83 research, and will add a -43 engine factory as well, to try and get that 500 engine research bonus. I really liked that plane last game! For the record, my first A6M3 research factory reached 30, and was promptly switched to A6M3a. That will be the KB fighter for a while...

[PaxMondo]

...I have done a sizeable purge of supply waste. Supplies were my Achilles heel last game! ...

Don't feel bad, I think every IJ player will say the same thing by late '44 ... we all wish for more supply. One of my early games, I had almost 10,000 Frank and Sams all ready to rip up the DeathStar ... except I had no supply to get any of them air borne. All those glorious fighters, with decent pilots, wasted because no supply. I overbuilt aircraft (factories are incredibly expensive in terms of supply, 1000/pt) and voile: lot'sa aircraft but no supply to fly them.

[PaxMondo]

... I am still not planning on taking all of India...

It isn't taking India that will trip up IJ players, it's knowing when to bail out, cut your losses, and tighten your defensive lines. This sounds simple, but it isn't. It is so hard to give up ground that you took. BUT, if you can, then taking all of India and gathering all that supply, fuel, oil, and resources for 4 - 6 months can be HUGE. Not to mention the HI points and the fact that you just cream a ton of the local supply production for the allies (remember, HI is halved when taken and then halved again when retaken. That means at best the allies only get 25% of what they started with. Forces them to move that much more supply. They have it, sure, but more work for them, more opportunities for them to mess up, delay themselves due to lack of the supply ... etc etc etc.

Just remember, they have to take the base in combat. That means sacrificial units in defense. I like to use mortar and scout units.

EDIT: Reading this, I realize that this applies to the whole map. Burma, DEI, OZ ... One of the keys to success in '45 as IJ is not to have lost too many units. This isn't dead units, but rather units stranded some place now useless. 1200AV in Palembang when you can no longer ship fuel. All those units are useless, worse than dead because you cannot re-form them. And that 1200 AV would be so helpful in Korea.

So, watch your lines. Carefully choose what to leave behind (always include some units with ENGR when the base has a lot of factories to increase the odds of them losing factories on attack), make it WEAK so the allies WILL take it, kill your units so you can reform them in Tokyo in 90 days or less. Every day delay is to your advantage. ENTICE them to take bases that you can't use any more. Shift your units to choke points so that the allies can't leapfrog and cut your lines of retreat. SE Asia is ALWAYS an allied jump point to trap your DEI/Malay/Burma/India forces. Start your retreat to those coastal bases early so that they are well defended.