POLL: Solution to Aircraft Upgrades

[Culiacan Mexico]

ORIGINAL: strawbuk
Agree [>:]

[:D]

[2ndACR]

And another swift kick from page 6.

[2ndACR]

And you guys thought I forgot. Not going to happen.

A sticky would be nice (hint, hint).

[pad152]

The current system is broken, either the player is in control of production, or the computer, not both. The computer should not be over riding changes made by the player. If I still want to build Nells vs Bettys, the computer should not keep changing my factories back to Bettys!


I think the best solution have a toggle to have the computer in control of aircraft production, or the player in control.

[Nikademus]

it is ALLIIVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

[BlackVoid]

I do not like the current system, so any change looks good. I voted for other limitations.

1. Idea for a system that will probably not happen:

Total freedom on what to build, but randomized plane charecteristics in the case of researched aircraft. When researched, the plane would be untested and only after combat would you see the actual performance numbers.

It would also make sense to have a few design policies in place, I imagine them as sliders.
- armor
- firepower
- speed
- manouver
etc.

2. Realistic idea

Allies cannot control production at all atm, so I assume this will only apply to the japanese.

- Free upgrade or downgrade for all AC as long as it stays in the same class (fighter, bomber, etc.)
- IJA can receive IJN planes and vice-versa, but this should cost political points. You are playing supreme commander afterall.
- Switching factory production from one plane to another - this should be costly in time and supply as well. (I admit, that I don't have too much experience with the current system, maybe it is good enough now in this respect). Switching production should also cost political points (I assume there are existing contracts for a lot of planes in production, to cancel these is no small task).
- Major experience hit should apply for 1 or 2 months with the new aircraft. Say -30 xp and over a month or 2 it would move back to original level.
- Make research optional or remove it completely from the game. This is to prevent having Shinden in 43 and the like).
- Better, and especially larger planes should cost more. (Does the current system model this at all?). B-17 should have a cost of several B-25s.

[2ndACR]

I said I would let this argument sleep until after the patch and bug quashes. Guess what, it is time for this to be re-born.

Give me my control.

[testarossa]

I've read all the posts and decided to delete this one.

[testarossa]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

If you do post a musical parody, please use the old .wav file format compatible with UV. I am still having trouble with some of the WITP format sound effects.

You care to list what software you have installed? It seems everyone who runs perfectly has just a clean windows install of any version. Those who go ballistic seem to be running the kitchen sink ... it would be interesting to see what the folks having problems have in common from a software standpoint.

I don't have a clean install but never had a slightest problem with WitP. Good work with the code I guess.

edit: Or I have good hardware[:D].

[2ndACR]

Testarossa,

I really hope you do not expect a reply to those questions. Those guys will never remember the conversation. I resurrected this from a couple months ago.

[testarossa]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Testarossa,

I really hope you do not expect a reply to those questions. Those guys will never remember the conversation. I resurrected this from a couple months ago.

I kind of got it thanks[:D]. I've already deleted one.

edit: I'll vote now, he-he.

edit: WTF? Only 220 votes? Is this the volume of sales? Or other players realised that nobody is going to change anything anyway?

[2ndACR]

No, alot either have not voted or are neutral in this argument. If I am given the ability to control my production, I want some control over who uses what.

This is a direct spin off from a very, very heated argument in another thread. it is only about 20 pages long if you want to wade through it.

Do a search for aircraft upgrades.

[testarossa]

Have you seen that turkey who got himself caught on the tape shooting non-combatant? And what kind of asshole would tape that kind of crap? Or they don't care just want some hot news?

[2ndACR]

ORIGINAL: testarossa

Have you seen that turkey who got himself caught on the tape shooting non-combatant? And what kind of asshole would tape that kind of crap? Or they don't care just want some hot news?

Ahem, no comment. Politics, needs to go to the Steakhouse. Would get real heated real quick.

Related thread is now on page 1.

PLEASE READ THE RELATED THREADS BEFORE VOTING. One is called "Attn Matrix" and is 22 pages long and the other is Matrix aircraft upgrades and is 9 pages long.

[mikemike]

ORIGINAL: WiTP_Dude

This all seems kind of silly. When the Japanese were designing the new plane models, they didn't know beforehand how they would work out. Maybe if the player was blind as to what the end result would be, it would make sense to have ahistorical upgrades. Then maybe you pour a lot of resources into one design and it ends up that the plane is a real stinker. Or you get lucky and plane really flies well.

Otherwise the current system of pushing or delaying historical plane models by a few months seems best. You already know which planes are the better ones vs those that didn't work out too well. You can use this knowledge to give the Japanese a little lift.

This would be a valid argument if there were any researcheable aircraft in the game that didn´t work out in the end. Let´s face it, any new Japanese type is better than what they started out with. The real duds don´t exist in the game. Neither do they on the Allied side (if you discount the Brit carrier planes). If you want uncertainty for aircraft characteristics, where are the factoriees ready to churn out hordes of P-55´s or P-60´s?

If you want strict adherence to history, the Ki-100 sticks out like a sore thumb. Historically, it would be correct to offer only the Ki-61-II, with the Ki-100 only available if all factories producing Kawasaki engines are destroyed.

Japanese aircraft production in WWII is a story of "too little, too late". In WitP, industrial capacity and supply situation is always going to result in "too little", so why not give the Japanese player some leeway in remedying the "too late" part?

Take the case of the A6M/A7M. If I remember the story right, after the A6M3, Jiro Horikoshi, the Zero´s designer, wanted to switch to a larger engine (essentially what finally happened with the A6M8). For some reason that wasn´t allowed (perhaps for range considerations?), so the Mitsubishi design team had to massage the A6M to squeeze every last bit of performance out of the basic design. The A7M was delayed by almost a year due to overload of the design team, and I bet the Zero situation played a major part in that, so the ability (in the game) to switch from the A6M3 straight to something like the A6M8 and get the A7M nine months earlier wouldn´t be all that ahistorical.

In any case, the upgrade paths now implemented s**k. The 64th sentai, for instance, flew the Ki-43 all through the war, working its way through all the Marks and Mods of the plane. They were preparing to switch to the Hayate when Japan capitulated. You can´t emulate that in the game as it now is, at least there is no upgrade path from the Ki-43-I to the Ki-43-II. I like the arrangement in Pacwar better - upgrade (or downgrade) to any type of the same class and user, and give the poor bastards bolted to Nates a chance to get to the good stuff.

Just my 1,53 Euro cents.

[testarossa]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

ORIGINAL: testarossa

Have you seen that turkey who got himself caught on the tape shooting non-combatant? And what kind of asshole would tape that kind of crap? Or they don't care just want some hot news?

Ahem, no comment. Politics, needs to go to the Steakhouse. Would get real heated real quick.

Related thread is now on page 1.

PLEASE READ THE RELATED THREADS BEFORE VOTING. One is called "Attn Matrix" and is 22 pages long and the other is Matrix aircraft upgrades and is 9 pages long.

I didn't want the discussion, just your opinion about how the guy who spends with troops days and nights sharing food and shelter tape something that happens 10 times per day and sends it home to wake up the hornets nest? And it is not about politics, Geneva convention or boyscout code, it is the question which you left without answer and I am fine with this.

P.S. Didn't like Steakhouse. If I want my ass kicked i go to the streapbar and start asking girls for the date.[:D]

[pad152]

Have you seen that turkey who got himself caught on the tape shooting non-combatant? And what kind of asshole would tape that kind of crap? Or they don't care just want some hot news?

Who says he was a non-combatant???? and how the hell do tell the difference?

This isn't something you whon't find in history books, It's something comanders did in the field who didn't want to see any more of their men go home in boxes after the war was already won.

In WWII when allied troops (US) went into a town, after the fall of Germany, if someone start to shoot at them, they backed out and shelled the town with heavy arty. The next time they when in town if someone starting shooting, they shelled it again. Pretty soon the Germans got the message not to shoot at allied troops or your town would be shelled! Some Germans would even go to the allied troops and tell them where the hold outs were so their town would not get shelled. This is what the US should have done in the early days in Iraq, even the bad guys would have gotten the message, (if you shoot US troops when they come to your town, it get shelled)! THAT'S WAR, WAR is hell, but thats how you win it![:-]


No one every won a war with lawyers.

[pad152]

No, alot either have not voted or are neutral in this argument. If I am given the ability to control my production, I want some control over who uses what.

This is a direct spin off from a very, very heated argument in another thread. it is only about 20 pages long if you want to wade through it.

Do a search for aircraft upgrades.

Mayby alot of players haven't played Japan yet? I didn't realize how broken production was until I played Japan[:(]

[afspret]

I agree, for the most part, but how would you handle the 8th BS, which started out with A-24s? Wouldn't they have to convert to the A-25 (which is not in the game) instead of the A-20?

[strawbuk]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

it is ALLIIVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

Quick send for