Japan 12,000 Assault value
China 19,000 Assault value
This is horribly biased. Are you this biased when playing the Allies too?
The Chinese units have low experience, poor commanders, no interior railroad and lack supplies. I shouldn't have to mention this...
Hi, Don't know where you are coming from on this. I'm the one that suggests the Chinese are not ready to launch a major offensive in the first 10 days of the war. I advocate the Chinese gathering inside China, not dispersing. I think the Chinese should take advantage of the distances not move towards the enemy in inferiour numbers. And of course it takes a while to replace leaders and organize the forces.
I divide China into 3 forward zones 1 reserve zone and the Burma/China supply line.
Army Group North conducts a delaying action at Yenen but withdraws prior to having it's formations ruined.
Army Group Center defends Changsha region but again retires before being fought out.
Army Group South keeps the Japanese penned up at Canton as long as possbile (but does not engage. )
Army Group "R" HQ at Chungking gathers in all the stray units. and refits them. Begins preparing defensive line around Chunking.
All the forces converge towards Chungking holding the inner and northern supply centers.
Dug in at level 4 or 5 the Japanese will be unable to root them out. There is sufficent force left over to provide bulk where the Japanese reduce their strength to mass in one location.
Inside China the Japanese supply is as bad as the Chinese. Get them off the rail and away from their ports.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
I still think the Chinese situation needs major work by the designers. Period. They need to buy a book and start figuring out what is wrong with their setup.
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I feal so dirty when I sink convoys with 4E bombers, makes porn feal wholsome. - Brady, Founding Member of the Japanese Fanboy Club
I still think the Chinese situation needs major work by the designers. Period. They need to buy a book and start figuring out what is wrong with their setup.
If you want to make it historical there simply needs to be a cease fire between China and Japan until around 1944 (or when certain conditions are met).
Also the garrison requirements are too low, Japan had to make extensive counter-guerilla operations.
If you want to make it historical there simply needs to be a cease fire between China and Japan until around 1944 (or when certain conditions are met).
Also the garrison requirements are too low, Japan had to make extensive counter-guerilla operations.
I agree the garrison requirements should be a lot more. Most of the cities it is very minor, like 10 or 20 assualt points. That only requires one base force. A few require a briage or division but the total committment for counter-guerilla operations in the rear is only like 4 or 5 divisions.
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I feal so dirty when I sink convoys with 4E bombers, makes porn feal wholsome. - Brady, Founding Member of the Japanese Fanboy Club
Hi, I find I need more then a base force to meet the garrison requirements.
Of the 12k Japan has in AV in China over 2k is required to meet garrison requirements. (before capturing any new cities)
This leaves less then 10k to defend the front against Chinese movements.
I'd like it where if a facilities at a base become completly damaged because of no/low garrrison the citiy reverts to Chinese control with a Chinese Corps being created on the spot and named for the city.
Example: Hangchow ungarrisoned damage to port and airfield reaches 100. "Hangchow Chinese Corps" created in hex.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
I'll go and count my garrison requirement soon to see what the total is vs. my field army.
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I feal so dirty when I sink convoys with 4E bombers, makes porn feal wholsome. - Brady, Founding Member of the Japanese Fanboy Club
I'd like it where if a facilities at a base become completly damaged because of no/low garrrison the citiy reverts to Chinese control with a Chinese Corps being created on the spot and named for the city.
Example: Hangchow ungarrisoned damage to port and airfield reaches 100. "Hangchow Chinese Corps" created in hex.
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I feal so dirty when I sink convoys with 4E bombers, makes porn feal wholsome. - Brady, Founding Member of the Japanese Fanboy Club
Hi, It appears the Chinese have evacuated Nanchang and the units that were located there are moving towards Changsha. The eastern most group of Chinese have moved onto Nanking. The Japanese suffered a severe repluse there on the 27th when they attempted to drive out the lead elements. . Japan should reclaim Nanchang today.
The situation around Changsha is still developing.
A major battle is taking shape at Kaifeng. I hope to destroy this force in the near future.
Then I have to box in the Nanking group and the operation will conclude.
Recent attacks by B-17 from Chungking will be stopped by an advance on that city after reorganizing the front.
(I still have to do something with the Chinese forces south of Changsha. If they can also be cut off...........................)
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
Hi, On 29 March the USN will be retiring from the disaster of the 28th.
2 USN CV 1 CA 1 CL 1 DD sunk. (3 IJN CV and 1 CVL damaged but should survive to fight another day)
Japanese score goes up by 1758 points Allies gain 24.
In China Japan storms Changsha losing 2770 troops and capturing 123,781 Chinese.
Chinese break contact at Kaifeng. Believe they are heading north to reinforce Chengting attack or moving back to Homan (too soon to tell) Pursuit ordered.
By my count a further 22 Chinese formations are east of the RR and cut off from supply.
Attachments
Cannae5.jpg (102.09 KiB) Viewed 186 times
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
Well what can I say, I'm disappointed in the performance of my carriers. I had complete surprise and yet Japan wins the carrier battle. I can see why other Allied players complain (and I should be more aggressive when I play Japan it seems).
Furthermore, Changsa surrenders simply because Japan gets to attack before the Allies. Earlier Mogami cleared his reatreat on the same turn as I would have him surrender. This turn I clear the line on the same turn but since he attack first my troops surrender.
Mogami, your view on these battles?
-sigh- Life as the Allies is hard, it will be a long war.
03/28/42
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Day Air attack on TF at 66,110
Allied Ships
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
CL Concord, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CA New Orleans, Torpedo hits 1
This is how you do it. Bye bye Yorktown.
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Day Air attack on TF at 64,109
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Day Air attack on TF at 64,109
Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 24
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate: 5 destroyed, 3 damaged
Allied Ships
CV Yorktown, on fire, heavy damage
CA New Orleans
DD Shaw
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Day Air attack on TF at 66,110
Allied Ships
CV Hornet, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
CA Canberra, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CA Australia, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Waters
Bye bye Hornet.
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Day Air attack on TF at 64,109
Hi, The USN did not have any surprise. The opposing TF's all spotted each other in the morning search phase.
The USN strikes appear to be disjointed but all the aircraft launch together and the strike comes apart enroute.
I don't know how many carrier planes you had at start but I think the battle was 270 max USN versus over 380 IJN. CAP over target IJN 56 USN 26 Escort for strikes 50 IJN 14 USN
The USN bombers that got through did a pretty good job. (If there had been 100 plus in any one strike there would be no more IJN CV)
The attack order for land combat is well known. The Chinese at Changsha allowed themselves to be surrounded. There were no security units guarding the lines of communication and the path from Changsha to Nanchang was left empty.
I almost hurt myself badly at Changsha the first time around by not watching my line to Wuhan. (I'm lucky I ordered enough force to move there when I did but I've been very fortunate to have units arrive where they are needed just when they are needed. )
However even if the backdoor had been opened at Changsha you would now have 123k out of supply troops with no place to go. You needed to open the front door.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
It took me a little while to understand that surrounded units are very hard to eliminate - as long as they don't own a base.
Then the Chinese can stand up to 100-1 in odds and hold out. Give them a base and they all surrenders as soon as a 2-1 odds is achieved. It seems more logical that the base should be captured while the enemy troops would remain. Then it should take a further effort to reduce the pocket.
Surrounded units should be difficult to eliminate, and this could perhaps be illustrated like this: Surrounded troops that are outnumbered more than 2-1 will suffer 10% casualties after each enemy attack. Then the number of casualties should slowly increase as the odds increase. Holding against more than 30-1 odds over more than a few days doesn't sound very realistic to me.
Just a few thoughts....
Another thing I notice that happens a little too often: Unescorted carrier strikes!
This is completely devastating, and it really didn't happen that often during the war. It's understandable that not all of the escort manages to engage the enemy, but I would consider a commander that sends of a huge strike unescorted against a well defended target to be grossly incompetent.
In my game against Wobbly, the Hiryu and Soryu launched these unescorted raids in succession while CAP was set to 30%:
Day Air attack on TF at 105,96 - Where is the escort?
Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 19
B5N Kate x 18
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 44
Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 42 destroyed
B5N Kate: 16 destroyed
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Day Air attack on TF at 105,96 Still no escort
Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 19
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 44
Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 33 destroyed, 3 damaged
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Day Air attack on TF at 105,96 - Finally some Kates makes it through...no hits!-( Just not my day!
Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 19
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 44
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate: 28 destroyed, 12 damaged
Allied Ships
CV Saratoga
CV Hornet
CL St. Louis
Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
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Completely devastating and I've not managed to understand what really causes this. Is it a random feature?
A small 2 cv tf with a Vice Admiral in charge that is skilled in carrier combat and aircrew that got an average skill of 80+ should be an ideal force composition?
Only one of your strikes were unescorted Sveint, so you should consider yourself 'lucky' [;)]
3 of the Japanese strikes were unescorted, but not against targets with enemy CAP.
Following this 'rule' - I now try to have at least 50% CAP over my carriers when moving into enemy territory, so if the enemy strikes comes in unescorted, I can have a turkey shoot!-)
"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
First of all I want to say i enjoy your AAR. I have been reading many of them. The carrier attacks showing how good Japan does just shows you how lucky the Americans were at Midway. Even though the Americans knew the Japanese were coming, almost the whole force composition, all American attacks were stopped cold until the DB's showed up and caught them with thier CV's full of fueled AC's and bombs laying all over the place.
The war still would have been decided in US favor but might have taken a year or two more. The US would have been much less agressive until the better CV's and aircraft came along had Midway been a push(ie Japan losing 1CV and US 1or 2). Look how long the Guadalcanal took and the toll on US CV's
This is completely devastating, and it really didn't happen that often during the war. It's understandable that not all of the escort manages to engage the enemy, but I would consider a commander that sends of a huge strike unescorted against a well defended target to be grossly incompetent.
I hate to hijack this thread any further than it's already been, but there were many instances in 1942 where balanced strikes were launched, but the elements became separated, either in forming up or on the way to the target, with the result that attack planes arrived with no escort.
