No restart needed. I don't think that was the idea. These are good battles but they need to be played and critiqued. I don't think we can make any really educated decisions until several players have run through at least the first 7-10 battles.
The previous discussions would be interesting and might help new designers better understand the approach. If you have time, definitely post them.
Let's wait for at least a couple players to make it through battle 10 before considering any major or minor course corrections. There's nothing wrong with the initial approach - my hunch is that it will work out nicely.
Besides, Wild Bill has shown us the way in this area as in so many others: his VICTORS campaign game came in two flavors: HARD and EASY - the player just picked his preferred level of pain!
GPW 2.0 could be the same way - RUSSIAN-style and REGULAR! But I think we'll all have to grind through some battles to know for sure.
I think the guidance I have been providing the new designers is still correct: balance the battle against a Soviet battalion-sized battlegroup and try and limit expected core losses to about 33% in any one battle.
Thus, by battle 16 (June 1942), the core force, at full-strength, is probably 30-40 tanks, 30-40 infantry squads, 8 x ATG, 8 x AA, 8 x mortar and various transport and support units. Experience levels will tend to run about 33% elite and the rest mostly veteran with some good (plus whatever replacements have shown up). This does not reflect a lot of upgraded trucks which is a pet peeve for many folks. We might consider eliminating trucks from the core force completely and providing them as AUX just like the Stalingrad scenario does...upgrading trucks to T-34s will definitely skew the playbalance but is easily done and impossible to prevent.
I'm pretty sure the force above is a very likely core from what I have seen so far.
So, unless the battle is designated an "easy" one, the core force ought to lose 10+ tanks each battle so that by the end of the operation, there are a handful of operational tanks left...
I think this is valid advice for now and the battles can be easily modified based upon lessons learned after players play the first 10 battles.
I do think, A_B, that to achieve your vision, a second round of design will be needed - but perhaps only one or two designers. What I mean is that after the first 10 battles have been played by several players, a designer will go and open up each scenario in the editor and fix bugs, correct errors, and then make subtle changes to make the battle conform to the GPW vision (i.e. tweak each battle to get the right level of destruction of core force). Then GPW Version 2.0 can be released - minimal bugs and balanced to provide the kind of challenge you're looking for.
Cheers
Campaign Collective
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
How is this for a way to handle upgrades;Originally posted by darroch:
Thus, by battle 16 (June 1942), the core force, at full-strength, is probably 30-40 tanks, 30-40 infantry squads, 8 x ATG, 8 x AA, 8 x mortar and various transport and support units. Experience levels will tend to run about 33% elite and the rest mostly veteran with some good (plus whatever replacements have shown up).
rather than strict limits, have a mandated section of the core, inf./med tanks/AA guns, which reflect a realistice force composition, and if a player can achieve the prescibed level when rebuilding, they can then get hvy tanks/flame tanks, etc.
just a thought.
The other way that all of the play balancing is handled is through the 'operational' format. medium player just won't be able to achieve complete breakthroughs (as simulated by playing all of the battles of an operation), and a major set back is manageable (ie; you are not on a glide path to eventual defeat)because you skip to the next operation and get the same available points. The great player doesnt' get to build the massivly bigger core, they just get to play more battles, and in the process accumulate many more 'points'. also helps the replay value.
Well, the whole idea of the trucks was to upgrade them to T34's. The core force starts as a battalion of mech inf. with trucks, but ends as a inf. battalion and a tank battalion (plus attachments). In a regular campaign, i usually buy some trucks & scouts for just this purpose. Does anyone else do this?This does not reflect a lot of upgraded trucks which is a pet peeve for many folks. We might consider eliminating trucks from the core force completely and providing them as AUX just like the Stalingrad scenario does...upgrading trucks to T-34s will definitely skew the playbalance but is easily done and impossible to prevent.
Cheers[/QB]
Unconventional war requires unconventional thought
13 is an ambush, and I want to do it.
Darroch, these were my latest;
Battle 16 – Asgeir Petursson
Near Millerovo, July 29th, 1942 – Delay battle along dry river bed.
Battle 17 - Alessandro
Morozovsk, July 29th, 1942 –. Russian defense
Battle 18
Don River, August 2nd, 1942 –. Escape Battle.
Battle 18 (hard)
Don River, August 2nd, 1942 –. Escape Battle.
You should have Tomo work on Kurgan with you. You have similar styles, so it should go without much friction. Also, based on his scenario 3 (peeking, not playing), he has a good grasp of using a lot of units in creative ways.
Who do you have for 18? That will be a tricky one to do right.
Darroch, these were my latest;
Battle 16 – Asgeir Petursson
Near Millerovo, July 29th, 1942 – Delay battle along dry river bed.
Battle 17 - Alessandro
Morozovsk, July 29th, 1942 –. Russian defense
Battle 18
Don River, August 2nd, 1942 –. Escape Battle.
Battle 18 (hard)
Don River, August 2nd, 1942 –. Escape Battle.
You should have Tomo work on Kurgan with you. You have similar styles, so it should go without much friction. Also, based on his scenario 3 (peeking, not playing), he has a good grasp of using a lot of units in creative ways.
Who do you have for 18? That will be a tricky one to do right.
Unconventional war requires unconventional thought
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generalrichmond
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You have got my last name spelled wrong, it's Vasshaug.Originally posted by darroch:
Jorgen Vausshaug has agreed to do battle 18 - both versions.
The raid I am referring to is battle 20 - the artillery raid - so Tomo could have it and you can have 13...
I'll write you in for 13 and that answers my question about 13...
ANy idea about 12?
Maybe I should change it, everyone get's it wrong where I live unless I give to them with a teaspoon. Even then they manage to get it wrong <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
I'll do the two 18 battles, and if they are tricky, the better. That's the way I like them.
I don't have any experience designing SPWaW scenarios but let me surprise you.
Color
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generalrichmond
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: richmond, va
- Contact:
I am going to struggle Kurgan battles, but I do not know which ones are of it gone. So let me know what is left or do I all of them (5) its not much work to build. I've received info and map of those battles.
I have something else today but I'll dig into these in this weekend.
mosh
I have something else today but I'll dig into these in this weekend.
mosh
salute
mosh
If its not rotten, shoot again
mosh
If its not rotten, shoot again