Lunacy AND Shrewdness

[Nomad]

deleted by me.

[itsjustme]

And I appreciate your caution.  Thanks again.[8D]

[itsjustme]

For those of you playing along at home, here's the latest combat report.   Lots going on so lets get right to it.
 
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/20/42
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TF 1028 encounters mine field at Ogliuga Island (97,36)
 
Allied Ships
MSW Lockeport
MSW Canso
 
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Naval bombardment of Karachi, at 21,3
 
 
Allied aircraft
no flights
 
 
Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane II: 1 destroyed
 
Japanese Ships
DD Hamakaze
DD Hatsukaze
CA Kako
CA Furutaka
CA Kinugasa
CA Aoba
CA Kumano
CA Myoko
CA Chikuma
BB Hyuga
BB Yamato
 
Allied Ships
AK Empire Geraint, Shell hits 5,  on fire,  heavy damage
 
 
Allied ground losses:
1148 casualties reported
Guns lost 15
 
Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 74
Port hits 15
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 2
 He is really pounding my guys in the trenches.  I've just dropped about 100 support points below what is required.  Replacements are on, but I don't know if its going to be able to keep up.
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TF 1028 encounters mine field at Amchitka Island (96,36) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
 
118 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
AP Tsuyama Maru, and is sunk
 
Allied Ships
MSW Lockeport, Shell hits 35,  on fire,  heavy damage
MSW Canso, Shell hits 28,  on fire,  heavy damage
 
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TF 1028 encounters mine field at Ogliuga Island (97,36)
 
Allied Ships
MSW Lockeport,  on fire,  heavy damage
MSW Canso,  on fire,  heavy damage
 
This is REALLY frustrating.  Clearly a movement bug that routes ships back through Amchitka after their MSW mission is finished.  Its cost me 5 MSWs and a PG.  Not sure what to do here.[:@][:@][:@]

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Day Air attack on Colombo , at 14,24
 
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8
Ki-21 Sally x 20
 
Allied aircraft
Wirraway x 4
 
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 1 destroyed, 12 damaged
 
 
Aircraft Attacking:
16 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 6000 feet
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Day Air attack on 1st Tank Regiment, at 36,25
 
 
Allied aircraft
SB-2c x 15
 
 
No Allied losses
 
Japanese ground losses:
25 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 1
 
Aircraft Attacking:
 9 x SB-2c bombing at 5000 feet
 6 x SB-2c bombing at 5000 feet
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Day Air attack on 71st Chinese Division, at 43,32
 
Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 38
 
Allied aircraft
I-153c x 1
I-16c x 6
 
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-27 Nate: 1 damaged
 
 
Aircraft Attacking:
34 x Ki-27 Nate bombing at 2000 feet
 4 x Ki-27 Nate bombing at 2000 feet
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Day Air attack on FMSV Brigade, at 23,47
 
Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 50
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 27
 
No Japanese losses
 
Aircraft Attacking:
27 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
12 x Ki-27 Nate bombing at 2000 feet
15 x Ki-27 Nate bombing at 2000 feet
 8 x Ki-27 Nate bombing at 2000 feet
15 x Ki-27 Nate bombing at 2000 feet
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Day Air attack on 4th Australian Division, at 21,3
 
Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 14
Ki-21 Sally x 53
Ki-46-II Dinah x 1
 
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 1 damaged
 
 
Allied ground losses:
92 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
 
Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 11000 feet
13 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 11000 feet
13 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 11000 feet
 9 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 11000 feet
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Day Air attack on 4th Australian Division, at 21,3
 
Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 6
Ki-21 Sally x 25
Ki-46-II Dinah x 1
 
No Japanese losses
 
 
Allied ground losses:
28 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
 
Aircraft Attacking:
14 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 11000 feet
 7 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 11000 feet
 4 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 11000 feet
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Day Air attack on 4th Australian Division, at 21,3
 
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 35
Ki-46-II Dinah x 2
 
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 2 damaged
 
 
Allied ground losses:
7 casualties reported
 
Aircraft Attacking:
11 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 11000 feet
12 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 11000 feet
12 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 11000 feet
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Day Air attack on TF, near Koepang at 28,77
 
 
Allied aircraft
Brewster 339D x 6
Hudson I x 3
B-17E Fortress x 18
 
 
No Allied losses
 
Japanese Ships
PG Yachiyo Maru, Bomb hits 2
AP Ryotaku Maru
AP Konsan Maru
AP Mikage Maru #20, Bomb hits 2,  on fire
AP Montoiru Maru, Bomb hits 3,  on fire,  heavy damage
 
Japanese ground losses:
123 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
 
Aircraft Attacking:
 3 x Hudson I bombing at 5000 feet
 1 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
 3 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
 2 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
 4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
 4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
 4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
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Day Air attack on TF, near Koepang at 28,77
 
 
Allied aircraft
Brewster 339D x 14
Hudson I x 13
B-17E Fortress x 11
 
 
No Allied losses
 
Japanese Ships
AP Ryotaku Maru, Bomb hits 3,  on fire,  heavy damage
AP Tainichi Maru
AP Konsan Maru
AP Mikage Maru #20, Bomb hits 3,  on fire,  heavy damage
AP Montoiru Maru, Bomb hits 3,  on fire,  heavy damage
AP Miyako Maru, Bomb hits 2,  on fire
AP Heizan Maru, Bomb hits 4,  on fire,  heavy damage
 
Japanese ground losses:
336 casualties reported
Guns lost 5
 
Aircraft Attacking:
 4 x Hudson I bombing at 5000 feet
 3 x Hudson I bombing at 5000 feet
 3 x Hudson I bombing at 5000 feet
 3 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
 3 x Hudson I bombing at 5000 feet
 4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
 4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
 
This series of air raids are very nice results.  I have no intention of invading Koepang at the moment, but it seems Nemo might think I am going to.  Its costing him alot of ships.[:D]
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Naval bombardment of Karachi, at 21,3
 
Japanese Ships
DD Natsushio
DD Oyashio
DD Makigumo
CA Maya
CA Takao
BB Yamashiro
BB Fuso
BB Nagato
BB Kirishima
BB Hiei
 
Allied Ships
AK Empire Geraint, Shell hits 10,  on fire,  heavy damage
 
 
Allied ground losses:
2781 casualties reported
Guns lost 15
 
Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 38
Port hits 19
Port fuel hits 7
Port supply hits 2
 
 Nuked again.
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Ground combat at Karachi
 
Japanese Shock attack
 
Attacking force 223069 troops, 2181 guns, 1034 vehicles, Assault Value = 4966
 
Defending force 103999 troops, 980 guns, 193 vehicles, Assault Value = 2290
 
Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 7
 
Japanese max assault: 4485 - adjusted assault: 4013
 
Allied max defense: 2170 - adjusted defense: 13601
 
Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 7)
 
 
Japanese ground losses:
7474 casualties reported
Guns lost 214
Vehicles lost 31
 
Allied ground losses:
935 casualties reported
Guns lost 35
 
 He's taking furious losses during his attacks, but its costing me too.  This battle (assuming it is permitted to continue) is all about time.
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Ground combat at Chungking
 
Japanese Bombardment attack
 
Attacking force 167006 troops, 2161 guns, 11 vehicles, Assault Value = 3499
 
Defending force 167696 troops, 1172 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3879
 
 
 
Allied ground losses:
335 casualties reported
 
 
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Ground combat at Washington Island
 
Allied Bombardment attack
 
Attacking force 2271 troops, 32 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 45
 
Defending force 7813 troops, 29 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 77
 
 
Japanese ground losses:
92 casualties reported
Guns lost 8
 
I've now got a lvl 4 airfield within range of both Palmyra and Washington in the HIs.  Time to start pounding them with 4Es  If I can close the Palmyra airfield I may risk a run into Washington with a fast transport and shore up the defenses there.

[Capt. Harlock]

In response to his concerns, I have offered the only compromise I believe I can live with: A cease fire until 10.43, no offensives out of Karachi until after that date, no airborne operations out of Karachi until after I have cleared the city hex adjoining Karachi (this will permit Nemo some level of comfort and no need to use forces to garrison other cities) and no naval sorties from Karachi until after 10.43. To date Nemo has chosen not to accept the trade off, which is fine, however, I need to know whether to continue to move troops into Karachi or not. Instead it appears that he is going to take another run at trying to reduce Karachi and then decide if to take my offer. This is obviously unfair on a number of levels.

Yes, I have to agree that it is unfair. You need to know at once if the artificial rules are going to be imposed. My advice is to politely as possible inform Nemo that, for sound reasons of strategy, this is a one-time offer. Personally, I hope he makes another attempt at Karachi -- it has been an epic struggle so far. Should he make the attempt and fail, and then re-open negotiations, I would consider artificially "interning" some of the squadrons tranferred to the USSR. I would argue against limiting naval operations out of Karachi: Nemo has already benefited from "edge-of-the-map" situations.

[Nomad]

As you know, I agree that you should not agree. You are in the right on this one and I think you should just keep going. I would not offer anything to Nemo, he wanted an anarchy game and he is getting it. Anarachy rules do not mean that only one side can use 'gamey' tactics. [:)] When do your first NP units arrive? I hope they get there soon. [:D]

[Redd]

ORIGINAL: itsjustme

It's become clear to me that Nemo is upset with me.  I need advice on how to deal with this.

Nemo has engaged Karachi and in an effort to defend this critical city in this lunacy game, I have begun moving everything but the kitchen sink into Karachi.  This was permitted by our agreed upon rules at the beginning of the game (teleportation around the map was permissible).  Now as it is becoming clear that taking Karachi will be VERY difficult, if not impossible, Nemo is complaining about the teleportation tactic.  In response to his concerns, I have offered the only compromise I believe I can live with: A cease fire until 10.43, no offensives out of Karachi until after that date, no airborne operations out of Karachi until after I have cleared the city hex adjoining Karachi (this will permit Nemo some level of comfort and no need to use forces to garrison other cities) and no naval sorties from Karachi until after 10.43.   To date Nemo has chosen not to accept the trade off, which is fine, however, I need to know whether to continue to move troops into Karachi or not.  Instead it appears that he is going to take another run at trying to reduce Karachi and then decide if to take my offer.  This is obviously unfair on a number of levels.

I understood from the beginning that if Karachi fell I would lose access to these troops for the remainder of the game (something completely not possible IRL, but something I accepted as an agreed upon rule), now, however, it seems to me that while Nemo is more than happy to take advantage of the Japanese first move teleportation, he is incensed by my willingness to use it to my advantage.  He also appears to be upset with my flying bombers through Russia to Karachi.  Again, this was not suggested as impermissible during our negotiations of the game.

Can someone please provide some insight on the reasonableness of my position?  I am enjoying the game very much, but believe that what is good for the goose should be good for the gander.  Thanks for reading and hopefully I'll be back to posting combat updates soon.

I have posted to Nemo on this very subject and recieved very harsh reviews on my positions. but on the other hand one or two people posted more or less in support of me so he seems to have toned it down just a bit. I am awaiting further replies from him so allthat I have to say is this; don't back down. You are not out of line! He's not used to the dirty end of the stick, so he's just getting aclimated to it now. Anarchy is anarchy. He's just pissed that his plan isn't working right.[8D]


Also, in his thread he has put forth the notion that he can negotiate the disposition of the SEA reinforcements in return for concessions. I don't believe that this is possible, and am awaiting his reply as well. I think that in time he'll get over it. Have a fun game.[:D]

[ADavidB]

Nemo has engaged Karachi and in an effort to defend this critical city in this lunacy game, I have begun moving everything but the kitchen sink into Karachi. This was permitted by our agreed upon rules at the beginning of the game (teleportation around the map was permissible). Now as it is becoming clear that taking Karachi will be VERY difficult, if not impossible, Nemo is complaining about the teleportation tactic.

Taking Karachi won't be impossible if Nemo is willing to spend the time and effort (and learn from others who have done it). And if he does take it you will have crippled yourself terribly. Just consider yourself lucky that Nemo is as obsessed with Karachi and China as he is - if he were to simply let you "sit and rot" he could run wild in the rest of the Pacific.

And even if you hold Karachi, you will have a trememdous amount of forces out of position to do much of anything. Nemo is being blinded to what you are doing to yourself - so be happy with that. [;)]

In any event, my opinion is that once a Japanese player decides to go "all out" and attempts to take Karachi, despite the obvious design problems and the overall gaminess of that decision, then all rules are out and you are free to do what you want. Just ignore his whining about 4E bombers and all the other BS that he is pulling out of thin air - he wants to win at "any cost", so go ahead and defend at "any cost".

BTW - losing Karachi doesn't mean that you will lose the Match if you are careful not to lose too many ships, planes and troops. You can keep a hyper-agressive Japanese player from "auto-victory" if you husband your forces and wait for opportunities to fight on your terms.

Good luck -

Dave Baranyi

[Sneer]

it may be too late - in the race of reinforcements he can't win with allies as there are multipliers to defence in karachi
my vote is against cease fire

[itsjustme]

So the game continues, but it is clear that Nemo is doing so begrudgingly.  I am going to simply continue as is unless it becomes clear that he is not happy on a continuing basis.  I don't want another's enjoyment of the game to be corrupted, its no fun on either side when that happens.

[itsjustme]

Just curious.  Anyone know what happens if the US invades the Soviet Union?[:D]

[Redd]

    Well, you're right about one thing, Nemo is plenty pissed.[8|]  Based on his answers to my posts, I'm guessin' that he will not be happy without taking Karachi. He feels that he's bein' robbed. His strategy relied heavily on taking Karachi, otherwise he wouldn't be so upset. The way I see it, Nemo will not be truly happy unless you concede that " teleporting " units into Karachi was an exploit as defined by your pre-game agreement ("Newtonian Physics"). When I mentioned that he had teleported on turn 1, his answer was something like "Bahh, that isn't even close to the same thing." You guys are defenitely not on the same page.
 
 
   He says that the gloves are off, so I guess he's gonna start REALLY kicken' your ass now.[8|][:D] You got two choices here; apease him or fight him! Do what you think is right.

[ny59giants]

I think Nemo is more pissed that his timetable is being thrown out of whack by the "Star Trek" feature at Karachi. I feel he felt he could take out China, then India, followed by the other countries until only part of the West Coast remained. [:@]
I understand the dilemma of Karachi and how game mechanics play into it. That is why I will play only CHS and extended map games so I hopefully never have to face what you have. [:(]
I think Nemo needs to try this style of game with CHS and the Middle east/Aden being off limits to invasion. [;)]

[Redd]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I think Nemo is more pissed that his timetable is being thrown out of whack by the "Star Trek" feature at Karachi. I feel he felt he could take out China, then India, followed by the other countries until only part of the West Coast remained. [:@]
I understand the dilemma of Karachi and how game mechanics play into it. That is why I will play only CHS and extended map games so I hopefully never have to face what you have. [:(]
I think Nemo needs to try this style of game with CHS and the Middle east/Aden being off limits to invasion. [;)]

That is EXACTLY it. He had a plan, he hit a roadblock, and now his feelings are hurt, possibly beyond repair. He wants to exploit the rules that let units move too fast sometimes and run the whole map from one end to the other. Anything less just won't be acceptable.

[Redd]

 
   @ itsjustme; I have enjoyed both your and Nemos' AARs but real life has cought up to me. My wife and I have sold our house in town in order to purchase 13.41 acres 20 miles out of town. While there is a telephone line, and supposedly dsl service, there is no power or water available on site until I supply it myself. So as soon as i get a well drilled, and a solar-electric system built, I'll be back to see how you fellas are gettin' on.[8D][:D]

[aztez]

Nice to see that you still hold Karachi! [:D]
 
Do you have any serious reinforcements arriving soon? As for the concern of ceasefire or something in Karachi. I would say that keep causing those problems. I don't see any problems teleporting troops into Karachi and so on since this game did not have houserules and also Japanese side also have exploited quite a few loopholes in this game!
 
Anyway well played [:)]

[timtom]

Stand your ground, Charlie - he's made his bed...

[itsjustme]

Thanks All-
 
Redd- Congrats on the purchase.  We'll keep the light on for you.
 
Aztez-  I have reinforcements coming, but am not sure that they will be enough.  Two Chindit brigades (115 AV each) coming in about a week and 3 support units (A couple of EAB and Enginneering Units) also in about 10 days.  The heavies start arriving in about 35 days (including Fort Scott, two HQs, some chinese divisions, Indian Division, etc).  Also about 25 days out from heavy air reinforcements including 72 Warhawks.
 
Karachi is now at Lvl 7 and is about 200 support points below Green.  Can I hold?
 
Also, the Valiant is schedule to show in about 20 days.  Thoughts on whether I leave her in port and hope she puts another couple shells in the Battleline before she sinks or should I try and get her out and to Perth?

[Sneer]

keep navy on station - no walk arounds
why risk it to betty daitai?

[itsjustme]

I thought so too, but you do realize that the Valiant is the only RN ship that will be arriving or will be in port.  No question she'll be sunk.

[veji1]

Actually you can probably expect a long attrition fight at Karachi... The question is if Nemo doesn't take it, can he stay on station with say 4 BBs and 4 CAs, 150 army bombers and try to do some sort of forward defense ? I guess the key would be LCUS, so if he kills China, how long does it take for CEA to get to Karachi ? He could try to bottle you there...

We'll see I guess...