ENLIST TODAY (Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) No Koniu

[JocMeister]

Ouch on the P38s. How many engineers do you have at the base?

[DOCUP]

30th Apr
 
Carriers unknown
 
China
Bombed
 
Burma
Koniu is sending 4 Es and 4 DDs as a fast transport TF to Ramree.  I am going to try and intercept this force at some point.
 
TI
Joc: 79 Engs and 17 Eng vehicles.  AF damage is down to 62.  I have an xAK loading one sqd of P38s now.  Koniu hasn't tried to bomb TI anymore and I don't see anymore bombers in the area.  I wonder why he hasn't bombed my AFs.  The planes were sitting ducks.
 
Big E will come out of the yards tomorrow[&o].  Lady Lex is moving slowly now.  Her and New Mexico will be heading to the WC to finish repairs.  This TF has many ships damaged some will stay around Oz and be repaired.

[DOCUP]

3rd May

Carriers unknown

China
Bombed

TI
Nav bombarded again.  Closed the AF down but it should be open tomorrow.  I need to stop this.  I think I know where he is coming from now.  So I might be able to do something about it.

Nothing else has really happend.  Got go to bed now.

Oh yea Jap DD ran into 2 Fletchers east of Makin. We scored a hit and so did he.

[zuluhour]

I may have some time on my hands now as the emporer is doing some head scratching after the engagement below (DaBabes). Joe, you are at my favorite time of the game as Allies and I look forward to checking in more frequently ( Ive had to read as many as 6 pages backwards) and providing some support for the home team.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 18, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Milne Bay at 101,134, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Shell hits 2
CA Furutaka, Shell hits 14, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Abukuma, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Nowaki, Shell hits 3
DD Hagikaze, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CL Concord
CL Helena, Shell hits 1
DD Lardner, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Le Triomphant

Improved night sighting under 82% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 82% moonlight: 12,000 yards

I posted this combat report here on purpose to ellicit any comments. Terry is very upset with results and may discontinue the game.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

I may have some time on my hands now as the emporer is doing some head scratching after the engagement below (DaBabes). Joe, you are at my favorite time of the game as Allies and I look forward to checking in more frequently ( Ive had to read as many as 6 pages backwards) and providing some support for the home team.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 18, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Milne Bay at 101,134, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Shell hits 2
CA Furutaka, Shell hits 14, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Abukuma, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Nowaki, Shell hits 3
DD Hagikaze, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CL Concord
CL Helena, Shell hits 1
DD Lardner, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Le Triomphant

Improved night sighting under 82% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 82% moonlight: 12,000 yards

I posted this combat report here on purpose to ellicit any comments. Terry is very upset with results and may discontinue the game.

What's to be upset about? Early on the Japanese get night battle surprise every time and do this to the Allies over and over. Now the Allies have radar and commanders who know how to use it, so they get surprise about half the time. Radar fire control delivers the hits and once a ship is on fire it is easy to hit again. Furutaka was a half-pint CA and IRL was hammered by Helena and a sister ship at Cape Esperance. Nothing unusual there. Haruna is too slow moving and too slow firing to get into the battle with 32+ knot vessels.
If Zuluhour's opponent is upset at this minor reversal, how will he stick it out through the clubbing to come?

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

I may have some time on my hands now as the emporer is doing some head scratching after the engagement below (DaBabes). Joe, you are at my favorite time of the game as Allies and I look forward to checking in more frequently ( Ive had to read as many as 6 pages backwards) and providing some support for the home team.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 18, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Milne Bay at 101,134, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Shell hits 2
CA Furutaka, Shell hits 14, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Abukuma, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Nowaki, Shell hits 3
DD Hagikaze, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CL Concord
CL Helena, Shell hits 1
DD Lardner, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Le Triomphant

Improved night sighting under 82% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 82% moonlight: 12,000 yards

I posted this combat report here on purpose to ellicit any comments. Terry is very upset with results and may discontinue the game.

I already expressed my view regarding such an attitude in post #1046 in your previous AAR:

tm.asp?m=2884724&mpage=35

I see nothing here to change my view. No suggestion of a bug rearing its ugly head. Merely an outcome not palatable to the Japanese player.

It does take a very strong personality to play the Japanese side in any game which makes a genuine attempt to capture the respective capabilities, strengths and weaknesses of the combatants in WWII.

Playing against the AI it doesn't matter too much if the Japanese player lacks the internal fortitude to cope with setbacks. They can always redo turns or even restart, and no one will complain. Against a human Allied player, that approach is totally unacceptable. The same applies to an Allied human player who can't cope with the early defeats. The difference though is that most Allied players are buoyed by the thought that eventually they will receive the assets to reverse the results whereas too many Japanese players are drawn to playing that side because they want to blow things up in their favour and dislike being on the defensive.

Alfred

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Alfred


I already expressed my view regarding such an attitude in post #1046 in your previous AAR:

tm.asp?m=2884724&mpage=35

I see nothing here to change my view. No suggestion of a bug rearing its ugly head. Merely an outcome not palatable to the Japanese player.

It does take a very strong personality to play the Japanese side in any game which makes a genuine attempt to capture the respective capabilities, strengths and weaknesses of the combatants in WWII.

Playing against the AI it doesn't matter too much if the Japanese player lacks the internal fortitude to cope with setbacks. They can always redo turns or even restart, and no one will complain. Against a human Allied player, that approach is totally unacceptable. The same applies to an Allied human player who can't cope with the early defeats. The difference though is that most Allied players are buoyed by the thought that eventually they will receive the assets to reverse the results whereas too many Japanese players are drawn to playing that side because they want to blow things up in their favour and dislike being on the defensive.

Alfred

Amen, Alfred. For an exception, Greyjoy's spirited defence of his Japanese perimeter is supremely entertaining and mature! [&o]

[trhinz]

I'd like to add a bit more to this story beyond what zuluhour has laid out. In our "daBabes" game IJN surface forces have underperformed from the outset. In July 42 a task force built around a 21 knot Royal Sovereign class battleship intercepted and disabled Zuikaku, in daylight no less, leaving her to be sunk by a small air attack layer that day. The carriers were screened by 4 CAs, a CL and half a dozen destroyers. Even my honourable opponent commented at the time that the result was almost impossible to rationalize.

In a series of surface actions since then the IJN has been virtually useless in action against allied warships. The one quoted in zuluhour's post is merely the latest. As zuluhour himself has noted in our communications, clouds of long-lances get fired but hits are never obtained. I am sure that the Allies have had high naval skill rated commanders in their TFs, but so have the Japanese, usually Tanaka.

These results did not occur in our first game, in which we used michealm's mod of the latest Matrix release. I am left wondering if the combat modifications in "daBabes" have anything to do with all this.

[JocMeister]

BB! Great to see you back! I was quite worried! [&o]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

I may have some time on my hands now as the emporer is doing some head scratching after the engagement below (DaBabes). Joe, you are at my favorite time of the game as Allies and I look forward to checking in more frequently ( Ive had to read as many as 6 pages backwards) and providing some support for the home team.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 18, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Milne Bay at 101,134, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Shell hits 2
CA Furutaka, Shell hits 14, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Abukuma, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Nowaki, Shell hits 3
DD Hagikaze, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CL Concord
CL Helena, Shell hits 1
DD Lardner, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Le Triomphant

Improved night sighting under 82% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 82% moonlight: 12,000 yards

I posted this combat report here on purpose to ellicit any comments. Terry is very upset with results and may discontinue the game.

Uhm, quitting the game because of 1 battle seems a bit drastic.. [8|] If this is something that you opponent can´t live with I doubt he will stay on for long. Once Fletchers arrive it seems not much can be done by the IJN. On several occasions in my game small TFs of Fletchers have chased away both BB TFs and CA TFs. If he can´t stomach a single small defeat in late 42 I doubt he will stomach playing the Japanese side in 43 and onward.

Sorry if it sounds harsh. But make sure your opponent is in for the long run and doesn´t quit the first time things start to get tough. I would be thoroughly mad if I invested 1-2 years in a game only to have my opponent quit as soon as things started getting fun for the allies.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: thinz2

I'd like to add a bit more to this story beyond what zuluhour has laid out. In our "daBabes" game IJN surface forces have underperformed from the outset. In July 42 a task force built around a 21 knot Royal Sovereign class battleship intercepted and disabled Zuikaku, in daylight no less, leaving her to be sunk by a small air attack layer that day. The carriers were screened by 4 CAs, a CL and half a dozen destroyers. Even my honourable opponent commented at the time that the result was almost impossible to rationalize.

In a series of surface actions since then the IJN has been virtually useless in action against allied warships. The one quoted in zuluhour's post is merely the latest. As zuluhour himself has noted in our communications, clouds of long-lances get fired but hits are never obtained. I am sure that the Allies have had high naval skill rated commanders in their TFs, but so have the Japanese, usually Tanaka.

These results did not occur in our first game, in which we used michealm's mod of the latest Matrix release. I am left wondering if the combat modifications in "daBabes" have anything to do with all this.

This puts a different light on the situation - it isn't just one battle going badly but the whole surface combat part of the game. Can anyone else who has played that mod comment?

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: thinz2

I'd like to add a bit more to this story beyond what zuluhour has laid out. In our "daBabes" game IJN surface forces have underperformed from the outset. In July 42 a task force built around a 21 knot Royal Sovereign class battleship intercepted and disabled Zuikaku, in daylight no less, leaving her to be sunk by a small air attack layer that day. The carriers were screened by 4 CAs, a CL and half a dozen destroyers. Even my honourable opponent commented at the time that the result was almost impossible to rationalize.

In a series of surface actions since then the IJN has been virtually useless in action against allied warships. The one quoted in zuluhour's post is merely the latest. As zuluhour himself has noted in our communications, clouds of long-lances get fired but hits are never obtained. I am sure that the Allies have had high naval skill rated commanders in their TFs, but so have the Japanese, usually Tanaka.

These results did not occur in our first game, in which we used michealm's mod of the latest Matrix release. I am left wondering if the combat modifications in "daBabes" have anything to do with all this.

My opponent (obvert) is playing another game where he lost the KB on the second day when the slow BBs from PH sortied and blew his CVs apart in a night surface battle. That was in a vanilla game. So I doubt it has something to do with DBB. Stuff like this just happens from time to time. I had a 8 Ships Fletcher TF chase away 2 BBs and 2 CAs just to get beat up by a CM and a DD a week later. Also a vanilla game.

If you have a hard time dealing with this you should probably switch to the Allied side. You won´t like 43 and onwards. Better to quit now then to have your opponent waste further time.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: thinz2

... These results did not occur in our first game, in which we used michealm's mod of the latest Matrix release. I am left wondering if the combat modifications in "daBabes" have anything to do with all this.

Yes ... and no.

The "combat" modifications of DaBabes were not in your first game. These "combat" modifications were primarily in the area of ballistics. They therefore really impact on damage levels capable of being inflicted from "hits" rather than on whether a "hit" is achieved.

Independent of the DaBabes improvement program, through various official patches there have been modifications made to "hits" possibilities/impact. In general, these modifications have toned down "hits". These modifications were not present when you started off your first game and therefore as the Japanese player you gained the benefit of the more "intensive" combat.

Andy Mac has issued unofficial updated (with the DaBabes ballistics model) stock scenarios. So unless you elect to play an old scenario version together with an old exe file, the "issues" which you are speculating are due to DaBabes changes, will still haunt you.

As the DaBabes changes have been out for some time without your concerns being raised by others, I suggest that you perhaps should re-examine your own play to see if it has adapted appropriately. Alternatively if you think DaBabes is simply unplayable for Japan, and that is the logical thrust of your position, you should raise the issue in the modders sub-forum where the real experts on DaBabes reside.

Alfred

[zuluhour]

To quote the Capt'n: "Hory Crap!". The IJN commanders are a special breed. It's like playing chess without rooks that work.

[DOCUP]

Nice to see a discussion going on.   Not going to comment on Kurts post.  Don't have enough info and Alfred has posted some interesting info.  But due continue with the discussion if you want to. 
 
4th May
 
I think MKB is still in the IO near Diego.  Got sightings of Kates.
 
China
Bombed
 
Burma
We bomb Ramree island.
 
TI
Japs sweep then escorted bombing missions then unescorted bombers.  Koniu got it all right this time.  Sweeps took out my fighters and their was none by the time the bombers showed up.  He didn't do much to the AF but did shoot down a few planes about 20 or so.
 
Gearing up for an operation soon.

[DOCUP]

BBfanboy welcome back  and about damn time you came back.  Joc has been crying since you've been gone.[:D]

[CV60]

I'm extremely new player in WitP-AE, so my comments on the battle result should be taken in light of that inexperience. With that said, the combat result (1 IJN CA, 1 IJN DD heavily damaged vice hits on a US CL task force) while unusual, are not beyond the realm of historical possibility. In late 1942, the USN TF would have had radar, which theoretically nullified the IJN night fighting advantage. The range (8000yds) would have been long (although not unheard of) range for a nighttime manuvering/non-surprised target, further degrading another IJN advantage. Ultimately, IMHO, it comes down to crew and commander quality, as well as the chances of war. The Battle of Samar (US: 6 CVEs, 3 DD, 4 DE vs. 4 BB, 6 CA, 2 CL, 11 DD) should not have had the uneven results that it historically did. Likewise, at the Battle of Tassafaronga, (US: 5 CA, 4 DDs vs. 8 surprised IJN DDs loaded with supplies) should have had a different result. While I would not routinely expect the game result that was described above, it is within the bounds of historical possibility.

[zuluhour]

Back to Joe's game....sorry for hi-jack. Thanks for letting me post for the reaction, I thought the results were in the realm of possabilty.

[DOCUP]

Your welcome Kurt.  You guys can keep posting.  It only increases my numbers lol.  Brings something interesting to my boring game right now.

[zuluhour]

It would be interesting to see the Devs reveal the combat results table for WITP-AE, after the release of WAITP-AE2 in 2099 of course.

[DOCUP]

5th May
 
MKB south of Diego Garcia
 
China
Bombed
 
IO
MKB sink 3 xAKs and is 10 hex south of my CVEs and a SAG.  Both are heading to Diego to get some fuel and run for safety and not off map either.
 
Ramree Island
Looks like Koniu is going to try another fast transport TF.  I have a SAG waiting to run into Ramree tonite.
 
Truskott
Kates sink an xAK and KV.
 
Sydney
Jap sub sinks 2 xAKs.
 
Not much else right now