New to the game - Basic Questions

[Centuur]

That's legal.

[rkr1958]

Thanks guys! Now a follow-up question ...

(1) CW to China 1 saved oil in Singapore via South China Sea to French Indo-China (France still unconquered) to China via Burma Road.
(2) Japan closes the Burma road. Not possible to get any CW oil to China.
(3) What happens to that saved oil? I assume it's lost?

[rkr1958]

I have a more general question about the Burma Road.

Situation.
(1) It's ND 1939 and France is unconquered.
(2) US Entry Option 9. Resources to China has been selected.
(3) US gives 1 non-oil (Philippine RP) to China & CW gives 1 (saved Singapore) Oil to China.
(4) Both resources are sent to China via South China Sea to Hanoi (French Indo-China) and then railed north to Kumning and then via road to Kweiyang.

Question: Would Japan closing the Burma road stop these?

It doesn't seem that it would until France is conquered and Japan has aligned FIC. But I'm not sure.

[Centuur]

Thanks guys! Now a follow-up question ...

(1) CW to China 1 saved oil in Singapore via South China Sea to French Indo-China (France still unconquered) to China via Burma Road.
(2) Japan closes the Burma road. Not possible to get any CW oil to China.
(3) What happens to that saved oil? I assume it's lost?

Yes, it's lost.

[Centuur]

I have a more general question about the Burma Road.

Situation.
(1) It's ND 1939 and France is unconquered.
(2) US Entry Option 9. Resources to China has been selected.
(3) US gives 1 non-oil (Philippine RP) to China & CW gives 1 (saved Singapore) Oil to China.
(4) Both resources are sent to China via South China Sea to Hanoi (French Indo-China) and then railed north to Kumning and then via road to Kweiyang.

Question: Would Japan closing the Burma road stop these?

It doesn't seem that it would until France is conquered and Japan has aligned FIC. But I'm not sure.

The rules specifically state that closing the Birma road using diplomatic means (i.e.: the option gets chosen by Japan) also means that only Chinese controlled resources can be transported by rail through French-Indo China.

[rkr1958]

I have a more general question about the Burma Road.

Situation.
(1) It's ND 1939 and France is unconquered.
(2) US Entry Option 9. Resources to China has been selected.
(3) US gives 1 non-oil (Philippine RP) to China & CW gives 1 (saved Singapore) Oil to China.
(4) Both resources are sent to China via South China Sea to Hanoi (French Indo-China) and then railed north to Kumning and then via road to Kweiyang.

Question: Would Japan closing the Burma road stop these?

It doesn't seem that it would until France is conquered and Japan has aligned FIC. But I'm not sure.

The rules specifically state that closing the Birma road using diplomatic means (i.e.: the option gets chosen by Japan) also means that only Chinese controlled resources can be transported by rail through French-Indo China.

So this means that CW or USA traded resources can't be railed through FIC?

[rkr1958]

I have a more general question about the Burma Road.

Situation.
(1) It's ND 1939 and France is unconquered.
(2) US Entry Option 9. Resources to China has been selected.
(3) US gives 1 non-oil (Philippine RP) to China & CW gives 1 (saved Singapore) Oil to China.
(4) Both resources are sent to China via South China Sea to Hanoi (French Indo-China) and then railed north to Kumning and then via road to Kweiyang.

Question: Would Japan closing the Burma road stop these?

It doesn't seem that it would until France is conquered and Japan has aligned FIC. But I'm not sure.

The rules specifically state that closing the Birma road using diplomatic means (i.e.: the option gets chosen by Japan) also means that only Chinese controlled resources can be transported by rail through French-Indo China.

So this means that CW or USA traded resources can't be railed through FIC?

Ok. Here's the rule as written for WiF 7,

6. Japan forces closure of Burma Road - the Burma Road is one way that the Allies can transport resources (see 13.3.2, entry option 9) and build points (entry option 17) to China. The Axis can close it by physical occupation but Japan can also close it by diplomatic pressure on the Commonwealth. If Japan does this, an Allied major power can’t transport resources or build points to China via the Burma Road or French Indo-China until it is at war with Japan or the USA chooses US entry option 24. China can still use the road to transport its own resources. You only have to roll a die for diplomatic closure of the Burma Road, not for physical closure.

So, to answer my own question above,

Would Japan closing the Burma road stop these?

Yes. That is, any trade from the Western Allies would be prevented from going through FIC until US entry option 24 is chosen.

[rkr1958]

Alright rules experts I have another one for you. Is the following a bug?

Italy took a naval and Italy wishes to use Balbo to reorg 3 naval units in La Spezia. The optional rule, "Railway Movement" is enabled and the weather in the Med if fine. So the motorized movement cost from Balbo to La Spezia is 2, which is within Balbo's reorg range of 3. However; MWIF version 5.0.0.1 (Beta) doesn't agree. Is this a bug?

[Centuur]

RAW:

A face-up HQ can reorganise units within range of the HQ. The HQ's
reorganisation range is equal to its reorganisation value in motorized
movement points. The path from the HQ to the unit to be reorganised
is traced exactly like a basic supply path, except its maximum length
is determined by the HQ's reorganisation range, and it may not be
traced overseas.

So Balbo is 4 movement motorized points from La Spezia and therefore can't reorganise units in that port.

[Courtenay]

The Railway Movement Bonus optional rule is tricky. It says:

A land unit pays 1 less movement point (minimum 1) to enter a hex when it moves, or advances after combat, along a railway (but not a road). This reduction occurs after you apply any weather (see 8.2) or overrun (see 11.11.6) effects.

It says nothing about this rule being used for supply or reorganization. Thus, MWiF is correct.

Without reading the rule, I would have gotten this wrong. This is one of the optional rules I don't use, so I am not familiar with it.

[Orm]

This optional rule affects reorganization. And MWIF enforces it correctly. As far as I know.

In this case, however, the HQI is out of reorganization range (Balbo has three points) whether this option is in play, or not. The motorized movement cost from Balbo to La Spezia, through two mountain hexes, is 4 movement points with railway movement, and 6 MPs without. In both cases the units are out of reach for Balbo to reorganize.

[rkr1958]

Thanks guys! I was definitely miscounting even with railway movement bonus. For some reason I was counting the motorized range as 4-2=2 vs 6-2=4.

[Orm]

A CV with a CVP on it is overrun, and forced to rebase (both were organized when overrun). Once the CV reach a new port the CV is disorganized. But what about the CVP. Should the CVP become disorganized as well, or does it remain organized?

[Joseignacio]

A CV with a CVP on it is overrun, and forced to rebase (both were organized when overrun). Once the CV reach a new port the CV is disorganized. But what about the CVP. Should the CVP become disorganized as well, or does it remain organized?

Yes, anytime a CV is disorganized it's planes are too. For example when aborted from combat, too. At least that is what I believe and how we play.

[Orm]

A CV with a CVP on it is overrun, and forced to rebase (both were organized when overrun). Once the CV reach a new port the CV is disorganized. But what about the CVP. Should the CVP become disorganized as well, or does it remain organized?

Yes, anytime a CV is disorganized it's planes are too. For example when aborted from combat, too. At least that is what I believe and how we play.

It isn't that simple, in my humble opinion.

The oil cost would then be higher when playing with CVP, than playing without.

The rule I found for this is cut in below, and the CV did not start the step at sea, so this implies that the CVP remains organized. But then you get to check the rules for overrun, and return to base, and definitions of naval moves, and what not. My reading of it is that the CV becomes disorganized, and the CVP remains organized.

RAC: 14.4.1 Carrier plane units (CVPiF & SiF option 56)
....
Moving into port
When a CV ends its move in port, it becomes disorganized (see 11.4.1). Its carrier plane becomes
disorganized if the CV moved into the port during the action segment and started the step at sea.

[paulderynck]

I agree the CVP is disorganized. If you played without CVPs, the air component of a CV would be disorganized since the CV is, and thus your have symmetry of capability with either situation. Also the the rules state that for an abort: "return it to base according to the return to base rules (see 13.4). Turn the aborted unit (and any cargo) face-down."

That last sentence would apply to TRS, AMPH, and CVs when playing with CVPs.

The oil cost is never going to be symmetrical. Once you choose to play with CVPs, you automatically incur higher oil costs.

[Orm]

Indeed. The oil cost is not symmetrical.

However. A overrun move is not the same as an abort result.

The overrun rule states that it is an return to base move where the overrun unit is disorganized at the end. Thus the rule concerning CVPs could apply where it is stated that the CVP only becomes disorganized if the CV started its move at sea.

RAC: 11.11.6 Overruns
...-
With the units from the overrun hex that you keep control of, you must immediately make a return to base
move (see 13.4.1) where they become disorganized.

[Centuur]

Indeed. The oil cost is not symmetrical.

However. A overrun move is not the same as an abort result.

The overrun rule states that it is an return to base move where the overrun unit is disorganized at the end. Thus the rule concerning CVPs could apply where it is stated that the CVP only becomes disorganized if the CV started its move at sea.

RAC: 11.11.6 Overruns
...-
With the units from the overrun hex that you keep control of, you must immediately make a return to base
move (see 13.4.1) where they become disorganized.

I agree. The CVP should not become disorganized in this case. It is the carrier which needs to rebase and not the carrier plane on it.

[paulderynck]

"With the units from the overrun hex that you keep control of, you must immediately make a return to base
move (see 13.4.1) where they become disorganized."

Is English grammar different when taught as a second language?

[Orm]

1) Please, do not be rude.
2) All of us have at some point been in error with the interpretation about the rules. So some humility would be nice in us all.
3) The number of units that can be overrun in a hex can in fact be more than one. Using plural instead of singular when you write about an unspecified number which often is more than one does not seem much on which to hang an interpretation of a rule.
4) The (only?) rule which specifically handles how CVPs are handled state that the CVP is not disorganized in such a move. And that is ignored because the overrun rule use plural?