The Gamiest Game in Town - EL (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)

[el lobo]

PACIFIC Sept 19, 1943 Turn 652

Rio says I got one TK.

[el lobo]

PACIFIC Sept 20, 1943 Turn 653

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Morning Air attack on Saipan , at 108,93

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84a Frank x 31

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 1
Kittyhawk IV x 16
Spitfire Vc Trop x 7
P-40N5 Warhawk x 15
F4U-1 Corsair x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk IV: 3 destroyed
Spitfire Vc Trop: 1 destroyed
P-40N5 Warhawk: 2 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed

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Japanese aircraft
Ki-84a Frank x 38

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 1
Kittyhawk IV x 5
Spitfire Vc Trop x 1
P-40N5 Warhawk x 5
F4U-1 Corsair x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk IV: 1 destroyed
Spitfire Vc Trop: 1 destroyed
P-40N5 Warhawk: 2 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed

[el lobo]

PACIFIC Sept 20, 1943 Turn 653

From dream to nightmare.

Almost one-hundred Franks. All with-in six hexes of Rio's Flotilla. No over stacking. All bases, except one slightly, more AV than a/c. All at their bases for two days to over a week. Weather clear all around. Excellent detection.

Same setting as Franks which attack the turn prior.

Not one flew.

(Jakes, Bettys, Helens, and Lillys all flew, and got slaughtered of course.)

Tomorrow I will have over 170 Franks with-in six hexes, provided he keeps on his present course.

[PaxMondo]

Well, coordination is something that takes practice and experience. Read Herb's old AAR. He is a master at it and he explains exactly how he does it. IT is based on LoBaron's old guide, so no rocket science. But it does take considerable planning and patience.

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Well, coordination is something that takes practice and experience. Read Herb's old AAR. He is a master at it and he explains exactly how he does it. IT is based on LoBaron's old guide, so no rocket science. But it does take considerable planning and patience.

OK, I'll take responsibility for possibly misleading you.

When I said the Jakes, Bettys, Helens, and Lillys got slaughtered, it could have inferred a coordination situation. Let me set the record straight, this is not a coordination problem.

The Franks mentioned are in bases by themselves and they are actually three and four hexes away (five units). My point concerning the Jakes and bombers is that they seem to have no problem finding the Flotilla.

If this game has logical, realistic, unbiased, modeling, there is no reason some of the Franks should not have flown.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: el lobo

If this game has logical, realistic, unbiased, modeling, there is no reason some of the Franks should not have flown.[/size]

There are very logical, realistic, unbiased rules modeled for air coordination that players need to learn and use. LoBaron wrote an air guide some years ago. Herb, who is an acknowledged master in this area, in a previous AAR of his wrote out exactly how he implements that guide. All very logical, realistic, and unbiased.

I'm sorry for chiding you, but even though you haven't provided a lot of detail here, I can see at least two and possibly 3 things that you did to ground the Franks. Read LoBaron's Air Guide (it's stickied). Then you'll need to search for Herb's previous AAR and read that (excellent read BTW). It's about halfway through, he wrote it all down in about 12 lines. A lot of players fail to follow it, players who are quite good otherwise, and pay for it with bad outcomes and then blame a bad roll. There is a LOT of probability in this game, it is Gary's game at heart, but most everyone of those probabilities can be considerably mitigated if you follow the rules.

[PaxMondo]

BTW, you are playing a very good game here against an opponent that as you stated not only has considerably more gaming experience than you but also has a much larger following assisting him with all of the game mechanics. When this game is done and you have a chance to read his AAR I think you will agree with me that he owes you a rather large beverage of your choice. I'd make it a single malt, but you might prefer a sour mash. [;)]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: el lobo

If this game has logical, realistic, unbiased, modeling, there is no reason some of the Franks should not have flown.[/size]

There are very logical, realistic, unbiased rules modeled for air coordination that players need to learn and use. LoBaron wrote an air guide some years ago. Herb, who is an acknowledged master in this area, in a previous AAR of his wrote out exactly how he implements that guide. All very logical, realistic, and unbiased.

I'm sorry for chiding you, but even though you haven't provided a lot of detail here, I can see at least two and possibly 3 things that you did to ground the Franks. Read LoBaron's Air Guide (it's stickied). Then you'll need to search for Herb's previous AAR and read that (excellent read BTW). It's about halfway through, he wrote it all down in about 12 lines. A lot of players fail to follow it, players who are quite good otherwise, and pay for it with bad outcomes and then blame a bad roll. There is a LOT of probability in this game, it is Gary's game at heart, but most everyone of those probabilities can be considerably mitigated if you follow the rules.

+1.

The Frank squadron you pictured was to Naval attack at 32k and was a splinter. Normal range is 6 which is a very short in game window to attack. Also it is splintered, meaning the air superiority routines will come heavily in to play, and finally, I have no clue if the game takes into account the fact that your pilots have no training in naval attack, are fighters pulling off a high altitude naval strike, and finally have a fallback mission of sweep which will mess with the rolls to sortie.

And finally, I am not sure what you are trying to do, other than throw away the Frank pilots and planes. Sending them in with a bombload at 32K...they will be fighting under extremely adverse conditions. If they were kamikazes...thought that would be good.

Good to experiment though...better off imho of having them escort one squadron of torpedo bombers at max altitude.

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

There are very logical, realistic, unbiased rules modeled for air coordination that players need to learn and use. LoBaron wrote an air guide some years ago. Herb, who is an acknowledged master in this area, in a previous AAR of his wrote out exactly how he implements that guide. All very logical, realistic, and unbiased.

I'm sorry for chiding you, but even though you haven't provided a lot of detail here, I can see at least two and possibly 3 things that you did to ground the Franks. Read LoBaron's Air Guide (it's stickied). Then you'll need to search for Herb's previous AAR and read that (excellent read BTW). It's about halfway through, he wrote it all down in about 12 lines. A lot of players fail to follow it, players who are quite good otherwise, and pay for it with bad outcomes and then blame a bad roll. There is a LOT of probability in this game, it is Gary's game at heart, but most everyone of those probabilities can be considerably mitigated if you follow the rules.

Pax, I think we may have a misunderstanding. LoBaron is talking about coordination of fighters with bombers attacking the same target.

That is not about what I am talking. I am talking about just my fighters attacking his TF's CAP. At this point, this turn that is, there are no bombers at the bases where the fighters should be initiating the attack. There are Medium Bombers attacking, but they are at other bases and are on their own. As LoBaron notes, there is no coordination between sweeps, which I don't expect anyway.

Please take a looks at my settings as I think this is where my problem lies, as Lowpe is suggesting below.

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

BTW, you are playing a very good game here against an opponent that as you stated not only has considerably more gaming experience than you but also has a much larger following assisting him with all of the game mechanics. When this game is done and you have a chance to read his AAR I think you will agree with me that he owes you a rather large beverage of your choice. I'd make it a single malt, but you might prefer a sour mash. [;)]

Thanks. I am on my way to sunny, smoky California in the morning and I am sure we, along with Capt. Haggard, will exchange several beverages.

One reason that this is so frustrating for me is that this is a once-in-a-game opportunity to inflict great damage to him and I don't want to blow it.

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

+1.

The Frank squadron you pictured was to Naval attack at 32k and was a splinter. Normal range is 6 which is a very short in game window to attack. Also it is splintered, meaning the air superiority routines will come heavily in to play, and finally, I have no clue if the game takes into account the fact that your pilots have no training in naval attack, are fighters pulling off a high altitude naval strike, and finally have a fallback mission of sweep which will mess with the rolls to sortie.

And finally, I am not sure what you are trying to do, other than throw away the Frank pilots and planes. Sending them in with a bombload at 32K...they will be fighting under extremely adverse conditions. If they were kamikazes...thought that would be good.

Good to experiment though...better off imho of having them escort one squadron of torpedo bombers at max altitude.

I suspect you are correct. My settings are wrong, but it worked once so I thought I would give it a second try.

I will try some different settings.

My intention is to wear-down his CAP with guerrilla attacks, mostly Franks, and then bring-in the LBA bombers and the KB. He has twenty-five carriers here.

He knows that he is in dangerous territory but is willing to take the losses. I hope I can give him more than he anticipates.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: el lobo

LoBaron is talking about coordination of fighters with bombers attacking the same target.

True, he uses that as the exemplar, but his guide is applicable to all air missions. In this case you are trying to coordinate a number of sweeps, correct? You want several different air groups to launch on the same mission with maximum cohesion. All the same variables and principles apply.

LoBarons guide is good, no question. But Herb's description is more ... visceral. He doesn't talk theory or modeling or any of that back ground stuff. He just gives it quite straight; this is the reality that you live in: do this and this and this ... or suffer failures. Here's the brilliant part of it all: his tactics mirror the real life tactics to a "T".

Meaning the devs really got it right ...

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: el lobo
I am on my way to sunny, smoky California in the morning and I am sure we, along with Capt. Haggard, will exchange several beverages.

Well hoist several schooners and enjoy. Long flight, take care.

[el lobo]

The time spent with Rio and Capt Haggard was really gratifying. Hag is a chef par excellence. His meals, Rio's brilliant conversation, and a few mind soothing elixirs made for a Second Annual War Game Commanders' reunion well worth remembering.

Thanks again Rio for the 1st Cav. hat and the "A" Troop, First-of-the-Ninth mug.

Now, time to catch-up.

FORMOSA Sept 22, 1943 Turn 655

At this point time we am still not sure where Rio is headed but I got in one semi-successful strike. There were three other smaller strikes with no results.

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Pescadores at 86,62

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 109 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 46 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 22
G4M1 Betty x 9
N1K1-J George x 18
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 24

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 6
F4F-4 Wildcat x 12
FM-1 Wildcat x 32
F6F-3 Hellcat x 94

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 8 destroyed, 2 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
N1K1-J George: 5 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-1 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVL Belleau Wood
CVL Hermes, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CV Wasp

[el lobo]

FORMOSA Sept 23, 1943 Turn 656

Another small strike.

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Orchid Island at 86,68

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 71 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 13
Ki-84a Frank x 18

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
xAK Steel Voyager, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Ellenga, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
xAK Garmula, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
xAK Mormacgull, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
520 casualties reported
Squads: 16 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 90 destroyed, 32 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 48 (47 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 88 (83 destroyed, 5 disabled)

[el lobo]

FORMOSA Sept 24, 1943 Turn 657

Rio finally reveals his destinations, Takao, Pescadores, and Amoy.

An couple of Allied BBs out of service.

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Takao at 84,66

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 18
Ki-84a Frank x 31

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4
F6F-3 Hellcat x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 14 damaged
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB California, Torpedo hits 3, heavy damage
BB Ramillies, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Indiana, Torpedo hits 1
DD Brownson

[el lobo]

FORMOSA Sept 24-25, 1943 Turn 657-658

I think numbers worth remembering.

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Ground combat at Amoy (83,61)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 49041 troops, 1603 guns, 1251 vehicles, Assault Value = 1762

Defending force 3549 troops, 29 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 77

Allied adjusted assault: 1159

Japanese adjusted defense: 5

Allied assault odds: 231 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied forces CAPTURE Amoy !!!

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Ground combat at Pescadores (84,63)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 16442 troops, 277 guns, 324 vehicles, Assault Value = 776

Defending force 4135 troops, 51 guns, 3 vehicles, Assault Value = 63

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 330

Japanese adjusted defense: 38

Allied assault odds: 8 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied forces CAPTURE Pescadores !!!

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Ground combat at Takao (84,65)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 20862 troops, 961 guns, 661 vehicles, Assault Value = 986

Defending force 4611 troops, 104 guns, 10 vehicles, Assault Value = 63

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Allied adjusted assault: 579

Japanese adjusted defense: 28

Allied assault odds: 20 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied forces CAPTURE Takao !!!

[el lobo]

FORMOSA Sept 28, 1943 Turn 661

I finally got some strikes but they were costly with not much results. This pretty much stopped my offensive air opps for awhile.

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Pescadores at 83,63

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 117 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 49 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 9
N1K1-J George x 14

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 9
F4F-4 Wildcat x 11
FM-1 Wildcat x 31
F6F-3 Hellcat x 264

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Takao at 84,65

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 96 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 24
B5N1 Kate x 15
B6N2 Jill x 18

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 3
FM-1 Wildcat x 8
F4U-1 Corsair x 5
F6F-3 Hellcat x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 8 destroyed
B5N1 Kate: 9 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 7 destroyed, 2 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 1 destroyed by flak

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Pescadores at 83,63

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 102 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 43 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 7
N1K1-J George x 9

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 9
F4F-4 Wildcat x 11
FM-1 Wildcat x 29
F6F-3 Hellcat x 251

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

------------------------------
Two more similar to the one above.

[el lobo]

FORMOSA Oct 2, 1943 Turn 665

Rio is advancing on Formosa and in China. Operation "Noose" as I understand it.

[el lobo]

PHILIPPINE SEA Oct 3, 1943 Turn 666

It appears that Rio is moving his Flotilla back to Guam.

[el lobo]

PHILIPPINE SEA Oct 4, 1943 Turn 667

This turn gets interesting. It was the longest CR of the war.

This turn was four separate battles.

Captain Haggard is fighting his private war against me in the Marianas. He moved a number of SCTFs into Pagen and made several air assaults. We both lost a number of ships and a/c. Sorry, no screen-shots. I mention this as the ships and a/c lost there will show-up mixed in with some other losses further down in this report (screen-shots).

There was also some naval air attacks by the Allies at Taihoku, and, I sunk the BB Ramillies in a separate Surface Combat. She was limping back to Guam with previous bomb damage.

In the Philippine Sea, I maneuvered the KB into position and got the "almost" perfect strike. I say almost. (The KB is fully operational except for the Kaga which is still in the repair shipyard.)

Rio sent me an email with a synopsis of losses, congratulating me. Here is my reply:
------------------
'A very good summary.

However I have been thinking about this a lot and I have a very different conclusion.

You said it all with this, "El Lobo, don't you teach your pilots the difference between Battleships and Transport ships? Honestly, pretty bad luck."

This strike was the Japanese player's wet dream. A perfect strike. Decent weather. Out of Allied range. The TBs and DBs got through by the dozens. And yet here sits twenty or so Allied carriers and not one is even attacked, at least not in my CR. Not one Allied fighter shot down. Pretty damn realistic I would say, in a most sarcastic way.'
-------------------------------

Even though it was a good strike, I was disappointed in the results because of the lack of capital ships hit. Here is the result of the main strike.

Allied Ships
BB West Virginia, Torpedo hits 1
xAK West Planter, Bomb hits 8, and is sunk
DD Schroeder
CM Prins van Oranje
xAK Chilka
xAK Ekma, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
xAK Steel Exporter
xAK Birminghan City, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Charon, Bomb hits 5, and is sunk
xAK Steel Mariner, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Taylor
CM Gouden Leeuw
xAK Utahan
xAK San Rafael, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Ernest Meyer, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Changte
CM Oglala, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Steel Ranger, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Egra, Bomb hits 7, and is sunk
xAK Steel Inventor, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Erinpura
xAK Centaur
DD Meredith
xAK Congella, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage

BUT, there was one out-come that I liked. His carriers reacted and got separated from the main Flotilla, and that cost him.

Four separate strikes.