Buzz's Fite Mod

[Zort]

ORIGINAL: Karri
Currently one of the biggest problems seems to be air war. The Soviets rule it by 42 in all games I've played. Have you experimented with keeping the Soviet air chock at say 90 or 95?

Not yet. Soviets lose a lot of air and win the attrition air war early. I think just because there were so many planes produced during the war doesn't mean there were men to fly them. Instead of a shock reduction maybe reducing the production numbers. This will possibly slow down the mass suicide of the soviet air!?

[Zort]

SMK and I are playing my mod 5 game which has the soviet ground forces at 95 shock till 42. I am not sure but I am waiting on SMK to tell me if this is having a damaging effect to his units. I have advanced in some places further against him then before, I think it's because several of his armies have been in reorganization and I have been able to destroy them before they can move.

In this mod I have reduced the soviet production increase and spread it out over 1942. I am curious if this will effect the soviet air usage. Only SMK will know for sure!

[Telumar]

I am currently playing your mod 5 as the soviets vs loveman1. There are misspellings in some place names, dating back to the original FitE version, maybe you want to correct them in a future version:

Hex         correct spelling

135/38    Oranienbaum
14/126    Stettin
23/137    Fankfurt an der Oder
17/156    Theresienstadt
10/155    Chemnitz
45/162    Kattowitz
45/164    Auschwitz

And as a suggestion:
48/163    Krakau (german) or Krakow (polish)
62/142    Warschau (german) or Warszawa (polish)

[SMK-at-work]

The main effect of the shock level is to randomly freeze armies in place - it is worst for reinforcing armies IMO - armies already in defensive positions have other units around them that can still move, but when your reinforcments freeze up for a turn the gap they were heading to usually just stays open for another turn, by which time the Axis may be through it.

[Zort]

What I was wondering how bad the 95 is compared to the 100 in the stock game.

Telumar, thanks will do.

[SMK-at-work]

Well at 100 yuo dont' get any armies freezing unless they've been knocked about in combat, so the effect is very noticeable!!
 
Re partisans - I wonder if they would be better as smaller units, but more of them, and with only a chance of arriving at a range of locations - that might be a simple way of giving them more randomness?

[freeboy]

re parts, problem again is total troops issue

[Telumar]

Another issue: See the attached pic from the current mod 5, these SB2s (sic!)Hurricanes and Blenheims are in a german air unit's TOE. Don't know which air unit this is, the pic is from a detailed losses report (i am the soviets). Should they be there?? [&:]
..and yes we are using the right equipment file...[:-]

[Zort]

These are from the stock game, Blenheims are with the Romanian Recon air unit and the others are with the Finns.

[Telumar]

ORIGINAL: Zort

These are from the stock game, Blenheims are with the Romanian Recon air unit and the others are with the Finns.

Ah, alright. That make sense. Just wondered.

[Silvanski]

And the Finns had some Hurricanes... you might even add Buffalos, Gladiators, Gauntlets, Fokkers

[glvaca]

ORIGINAL: Zort

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Err...the soviets giving up "vast tracks of land that politically they wouldn't have" is pretty much nonsense - it was taken from them!  Remember the dates those cities fell - mink T3, Smolensk T8

the southern cities longer but only because of the effort that was put into caturing up to Smlensk - then they swung south - up until the southern swing the Axis had only advanced as far as Tarnapol in the Ukraine - in FITE they can normally keep the southern advance in line with the northern one and take Kiev by T10-13 instead of 27.

In fact the Axis player almost alwys carried out this optimum strategy and I see no reason why hte Soviet should be unished for carrying out the onely sensible response given the way he's already shackled by things like losing tank production when non-tank producing cities are lost, by random freezing of armies due low shock and the like!

I always love this arguement. In fact in the game between SMK and me, he did not reinforce the frontier units in the south but started a line at the Dnepr. Could he have pushed guys forward, yes but piecemeal since the rail capacity is less in my mod then in the stock game.

Whereas Karri pulled his forces back such that it took me 5 to 8 turns to get to them. He gave up all the urkraine, everything south of the Luga line and west of smolensk. So he gave up just about everything the germans took historically by oct.

Remember the soviets did hold out longer in the south historically and the germans bypassed Kiev with their armor to surround the soviets at Ulman. The soviets didn't give up the Ukraine as has been done in both the games I am playing now. The Germans couldn't take Kiev with their inf and the soviets gave them the opportunity to surround them. I don't see the massive armies being surrounded very often in FITE. It does happen though. Most of the time once the soviets have dugin the game becomes WW1, who can attrite who based on the production system. Which did happen historically and the germans lost. But the soviets still lost thousands which was based on their strategy and capabilities.

I don't see the soviets being punished either for doing the best strategy for them. But once we launch into comparing the game to what historically happened we then have to balance the game. On paper there is no way the germans can win and I bet most players stop at the first cease fire since the germans didn't get to moscow. There are a few games that go on but I bet not many. So if the soviets want to fall back to the furthest defensible terrian then fine, but then the germans should be able to get back into supply much more quickly so they if they punch a hole then it will be much more devasating then historically, ie the germans might win.

I respectfully disagree. The Germans CAN win before the onset of mud, even when confronted with a runaway defense. The key is to have multiple combat rounds (4-5-6) and mass your Pz and PzG divisions and Arty for the breakthrough. Use your airforce/arty to un-entrench those Russian divisions and have plenty of Arty and Air in the attack to support. You'll hurt your bombers but that's what they are for. The key is to be patient, don't rush. Do NOT attack the Russians when dugin and/or with arty to back them up. If you spot arty in reserve behind the line go after the arty with bombers and/or your long range arty to un-entrench the succers so they won't fire defensively. A strong line of 3-4 deep will take multiple turns to break through sheer weight of numbers and force. I usually have 1/3 of the forces resting/resupplying while the 1/3 is attacking and the other 1/3 is close by to exploit a potential breakthrough.

Do NOT try to advance (fight) over the entire length of the front. It won't work and the Russians will thank you for it. Concentrate, concentrate, concentrate! The AGS is lavish on Arty so redeploy 2/3 to AGC. Take your time to setup for the attack (but don't dally), assemble the troops, convert the raillines, stock up on supply especially for the arty. But when you start, don't let up, keep on pounding but make sure you rotate the front line troops so they are in peak condition while his force deteriorates. Keep the front wide as to threaten from all directions, make him defend every stretch of it by just being there. After a few turns you will see that he starts running out of fresh divisions and resistance will crumble. If you have done it properly you will have launched 2 attacks or 2 pinchers which then move to encircle (or threaten) to encircle his line and he will have no choice but to retreat. Once you have broken the line and he is on the run, throw your panzer and moterized divisions in the pursuit with recless abondon. If you have done it properly you will have rested reserves which will now prove their worth as the Russian infantry, battered and disorganized will not be able to get away quickly enough.

When you reach his next line, catch your breath and repeat the above. However, each time will be easier as his divisions will have less and less supply and heavy equipment and less arty to back him up.

Another common strategy is the Soviet player leaving strong rear guards in Kiev and Odessa in a strong defensive postion guaranteed to cost the Axis lots and lots of casualties. More often then not, the Axis takes the bait and wrecks a good part of his army of a few less replacements for the Soviets. [:-]
My advice; encircle and move on. After a turn or 5-6, they will be so weakened by lack of supply they will evaporate like snow under the sun at almost no cost.

Lastly, CONCENTRATE! Not only Pz, PzG divs but also infantry and arty on the main axis of advance. When converting rail lines, pick a few important ones and concentrate on those alone. Do not try to convert all lines at once! You need to get there quickly on the few axis that matter.

In most of those beautifully AAR I see the same mistakes over and over. Once you become a master of the above, the Russians will suddenly seem so much more fragile and you will conclude that against a skillfull Axis player, the Russians will need all the help they can get.

If anyone is interested, I'll play the original FiTE as the German gladly.

Best,
Glenn

[sPzAbt653]

Wow ... That was great! It's as if it were the afternoon of September 1, 1939 and we were all standing on the banks of the Brahe and Heinz himself had just shown up to tell us just how to get this panzer division moving to the other side!

It's easy to get caught up in the mechanics and scale of this game, difficult to keep in mind that the German side has complete freedom of movement without fear of being 'canned' for disobeying orders.

Thanks Glenn!

[Karri]

I did some calculations on the tanks. Let's take a PzKpfw IIIH. It has AT strenght of 4 and armor of 4.
BT-7 has AT of 3 and armor of 2.
T-34/76 has AT of 7 and armor of 7.
T-26  has AT of 3 and armor of 1

The formula for hit and penetration is:
pq = 100xAnti-Armor/Defensive Armor Chance to Kill
100+ = 100%
99...25 = ((pq^2)/100)%
24- = 0%


So therefore we get the following penetration possibilities:
BT-7 =100x4/2=200, meaning a certain penetration if hit.
T-34/76 = 100x4/7=57^2/100=32,49% chance of penetration if hit
T-26 =100x4/1=400, certain penetration if hit.

So the only one able to resist is T-34/76. However we have to count in the chance to hit in the first place and it is either 50%, 33% or 11% depending on terrain and other things. On top of that each unit get 3 shots per turn. So in if we assume that it's 33%(which in the manual reads as 'normal', dunno whatever that means) we get following:
Chance of one round to hit and penetrate:
BT-7 and T-26=33%
T-34/76 =10,7%

Now let's look at the other side of the coin,
BT-7 = 300/4=75^2/100=56,25% chance to penetrate on hit
T-34/76 = 700/4=175, penetrates if hits
T-26=300/4=75^2/100=56,25% chance to penetrate on hit

Chance of one round to hit and penetrate:
BT-7 and T-26=18,56%
T34-76=33%

So remembering what the numbers look like, the only way for Axis to fight the Soviet armored formations is to encircled and destroy them. This is my experience as well, the Soviet armor is in a way superior to that of Axis. Dunno how it changes by 43,44 and 45, but in 41-42 the Soviets enjoy superiority in numbers and quality.

[Veers]

How does profieceincy effect their armoured vehicles? You'd think it'd effect them alot.

[Karri]

I don't know, the manual doesn't say...or at least I didn't spot it.

[Veers]

Sounds like a question for James.
 
Jaaaaaaaaaameeeeeeeeessss, where for art thou?

[Karri]

James? Jaames? James? JAAAAMES? James?

[Veers]

*Puts on JAMiAM mask*
Pg. 28 of the manual: [font=myriad-roman][left]"When units are Reconstituted, there is a one to four week delay[/left][left]in their appearance."[/left][/font]

[sPzAbt653]

Who was that masked man??

I see by flipping thru all these posts and topics that this has been going on for years. I only showed up a couple months ago. I am sorry if I repeat something that has been already covered. I try to look everywhere before I ask something.

In the past when I ran into a 'reappearing' withdrawn unit, I would add a second withdraw event several turns after the first. It is a tedious thing to do but to me it's worth it in the end. My version is up to around 670 events so you can tell I am liberal with putting in stuff so I don't have to worry with it later. Knowing how many turns before the reconstitution helps. It's the same one to four weeks in every game?

Thanks Veers, or was that James in a Veers mask?