Sicily to Brenner Pass - Mike1984 v. Desert
Moderators: ralphtricky, JAMiAM
RE: Turn 52, Aug. 30
Turn 52 - August 30, 1943
Sicily was quiet this turn, except for a skirmish between the 2 Inf Reg and a company of the Br 5 ID's recon battalion along the coast.
[Round 1] Attack on:
Reinforced Recon Battalion in Mouth of R. Sideto - [Failed] a company and 13 bombers (14%) for a platoon (3%)
I need to bring in more firepower here.
[Round 2] Attack on:
Same hex - [Succeeded] 16 planes (7%) for 1%
I had to stop there, my troops were in no condition to move.
I need to pull off a successful offensive soon if I want to defeat the Allies. Occupying Augusta and Syracuse, 30-50 km away as the bird flies, would prevent the Avalanche reinforcements from arriving.
[Round 3] attack on:
Bombardment SE of Gerbini - 17%
Sicily was quiet this turn, except for a skirmish between the 2 Inf Reg and a company of the Br 5 ID's recon battalion along the coast.
[Round 1] Attack on:
Reinforced Recon Battalion in Mouth of R. Sideto - [Failed] a company and 13 bombers (14%) for a platoon (3%)
I need to bring in more firepower here.
[Round 2] Attack on:
Same hex - [Succeeded] 16 planes (7%) for 1%
I had to stop there, my troops were in no condition to move.
I need to pull off a successful offensive soon if I want to defeat the Allies. Occupying Augusta and Syracuse, 30-50 km away as the bird flies, would prevent the Avalanche reinforcements from arriving.
[Round 3] attack on:
Bombardment SE of Gerbini - 17%
"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall
Turn 53, Aug. 31
Turn 53
I don't want to show my hand too much here, so I'm moving back my US artillery units back north. If I keep my US units moving around, he won't be able to gauge where I'm going to concentrate the counterattack.

I don't want to show my hand too much here, so I'm moving back my US artillery units back north. If I keep my US units moving around, he won't be able to gauge where I'm going to concentrate the counterattack.

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RE: Turn 53, Aug. 31
Turn 53 - August 31, 1943
The newly-arrived 157 Res ID was railed to Santo Stefano for a new offensive. However, much of the division was stopped by incessant air raids that took out a hundred men. Two reconstituted Italian regiments were sent to Catania.
The British changed the makeup of their line, and I will attack the weakest point (defended by a single brigade) in hope of a breakthrough.
[Round 1] Attack on:
Infantry SE of Gerbini - [Succeeded] A tank and 21 planes (9%) for 17%
[Round 2] Attack on:
A Practically Suicidal Attack on HQs and Artillery Behind Enemy Lines - [Succeeded] Hoorah! 3 tanks and 9 bombers (9%) for 3 planes (12%); I captured 41 of their 72 25-pounders!!!
[Round 3] Attack on:
Some Artillery to Complete the Encirclement - [Draw] 14 bombers (14%) for 5 guns (3%); they retreated in with the other guys, but the encirclement was not completed
A Huge Force With Their Backs to the Sea - [Succeeded] I lost perhaps a regiment's worth and 3 tanks (8%) for 8 tanks and all the artillery (44%)
On a sour note, massive air strikes on my embarked infantry in Santo Stefano have ruined maybe a battalion's worth; huge amounts of equipment are missing. The division's artillery brigade, out of 45 guns, has 14 left. The offensive is postponed for at least 2 days. Other air strikes in the center of the line killed dozens and destroyed up to half a dozen guns.

The newly-arrived 157 Res ID was railed to Santo Stefano for a new offensive. However, much of the division was stopped by incessant air raids that took out a hundred men. Two reconstituted Italian regiments were sent to Catania.
The British changed the makeup of their line, and I will attack the weakest point (defended by a single brigade) in hope of a breakthrough.
[Round 1] Attack on:
Infantry SE of Gerbini - [Succeeded] A tank and 21 planes (9%) for 17%
[Round 2] Attack on:
A Practically Suicidal Attack on HQs and Artillery Behind Enemy Lines - [Succeeded] Hoorah! 3 tanks and 9 bombers (9%) for 3 planes (12%); I captured 41 of their 72 25-pounders!!!
[Round 3] Attack on:
Some Artillery to Complete the Encirclement - [Draw] 14 bombers (14%) for 5 guns (3%); they retreated in with the other guys, but the encirclement was not completed
A Huge Force With Their Backs to the Sea - [Succeeded] I lost perhaps a regiment's worth and 3 tanks (8%) for 8 tanks and all the artillery (44%)
On a sour note, massive air strikes on my embarked infantry in Santo Stefano have ruined maybe a battalion's worth; huge amounts of equipment are missing. The division's artillery brigade, out of 45 guns, has 14 left. The offensive is postponed for at least 2 days. Other air strikes in the center of the line killed dozens and destroyed up to half a dozen guns.

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"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall
Turn 54, Sept. 1
Turn 54
Well this is good news. He is renewing his attack along the coast, and has pushed two more British units southward.

Well this is good news. He is renewing his attack along the coast, and has pushed two more British units southward.

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RE: Turn 54, Sept. 1
Turn 54 - September 1, 1943
My victorious forces were brutally routed. Massive casualties were taken, possibly some evaporations as well.
REVENGE!
[Round 1] Attack on:
Tanks S of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 2 companies and 8 tanks (16%) for 1 company and 3 tanks (14%)
Tanks SE of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 1 tank (15%) for bleh (19%)
Scouts SE of Gerbini - [Failed] 11 tanks and 6 planes (21%) for 1%; their bombers are tearing apart even my Pz4s
Stack on the coast SE of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 1 tank and 1 of my badly mauled regiments which evaporated (32%) for 17%
AH ^$#*&*#$$#@
Anyway, the It 30 Sabauda Div arrived in Messina.
[Round 2] Attack on:
Airborne Brigade S of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 1 tank (3%) for 26%; finally, some good news
Stack SE of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 2 tanks (6%) for 10 tanks (30%)
My victorious forces were brutally routed. Massive casualties were taken, possibly some evaporations as well.
REVENGE!
[Round 1] Attack on:
Tanks S of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 2 companies and 8 tanks (16%) for 1 company and 3 tanks (14%)
Tanks SE of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 1 tank (15%) for bleh (19%)
Scouts SE of Gerbini - [Failed] 11 tanks and 6 planes (21%) for 1%; their bombers are tearing apart even my Pz4s
Stack on the coast SE of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 1 tank and 1 of my badly mauled regiments which evaporated (32%) for 17%
AH ^$#*&*#$$#@
Anyway, the It 30 Sabauda Div arrived in Messina.
[Round 2] Attack on:
Airborne Brigade S of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 1 tank (3%) for 26%; finally, some good news
Stack SE of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 2 tanks (6%) for 10 tanks (30%)
"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall
Turn 55, Sept. 2
I ordered a few local counterattacks, just to keep up appearances. It looks like he's going to use the GR 16SS to spearhead another wave south. I can only hope.


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RE: Turn 55, Sept. 2
Turn 55 - September 2, 1943
Things might not be so bad after all. But the Avalanche forces arrive in a few days, and they can rush to the front within 1 turn and pummel me into oblivion. The whole point of this offensive was to capture the reinforcement hexes, but unless I surround half the British 8th Army right now I'm better off just withdrawing to my former positions and licking my wounds.
[Round 1] Attack on:
Tanks NW of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 4 tanks and 7 bombers for 3 tanks
Tanks and Engineers SW of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 5% for 9 tanks (23%)
Scouts and AA SW of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 3 tanks (4%) for 7 tanks (12%)
Tanks S of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 4 bombers (6%) for 3 tanks (9%)
Paras, Tanks, and Arty SE of Gerbini - [Failed] 13% for 18%
And then the turn ended.
Things might not be so bad after all. But the Avalanche forces arrive in a few days, and they can rush to the front within 1 turn and pummel me into oblivion. The whole point of this offensive was to capture the reinforcement hexes, but unless I surround half the British 8th Army right now I'm better off just withdrawing to my former positions and licking my wounds.
[Round 1] Attack on:
Tanks NW of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 4 tanks and 7 bombers for 3 tanks
Tanks and Engineers SW of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 5% for 9 tanks (23%)
Scouts and AA SW of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 3 tanks (4%) for 7 tanks (12%)
Tanks S of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 4 bombers (6%) for 3 tanks (9%)
Paras, Tanks, and Arty SE of Gerbini - [Failed] 13% for 18%
And then the turn ended.
"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall
Turn 56, Sept. 3 - part 1
Turn 56, part 1
The GR 16SS has indeed launched a new wave of attacks south into the BR 5 ID. It appears that there will be no real effort to push west, as the Italian regiment that broke through is hardly a threat.

The GR 16SS has indeed launched a new wave of attacks south into the BR 5 ID. It appears that there will be no real effort to push west, as the Italian regiment that broke through is hardly a threat.

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Turn 56, Sept. 3 - part 2
Turn 56, part 2
I hope this isn't too soon. I've ordered the US 1 ID and US 2 AD to attack directly east towards Gerbini. There are some great angles in his line that I should be able to exploit. Plus, his units are more worn out from the attacks. The US 2 AD is the first to hit the Axis line.

I hope this isn't too soon. I've ordered the US 1 ID and US 2 AD to attack directly east towards Gerbini. There are some great angles in his line that I should be able to exploit. Plus, his units are more worn out from the attacks. The US 2 AD is the first to hit the Axis line.

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Turn 56, Sept. 3 - part 3
Turn 56, part 3
I was afraid of this. There are quite a few breakthroughs in his line. However, he has stacked units in reserve all the way back to Catania. This will basically thwart any counteroffensive I wish to conduct. Still, I'm not giving up yet. I wanted to get him out in the open. Right now, he is, so I can't let it go to waste.

I was afraid of this. There are quite a few breakthroughs in his line. However, he has stacked units in reserve all the way back to Catania. This will basically thwart any counteroffensive I wish to conduct. Still, I'm not giving up yet. I wanted to get him out in the open. Right now, he is, so I can't let it go to waste.

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RE: Turn 56, Sept. 3 - part 3
Turn 56 - September 3, 1943
Ah crud, American armor is pushing through my lines.
BEGIN NORTHERN OFFENSIVE
[Round 1] Attack on:
(From Northern Coast) Hex 1 - [Succeeded] 1 tank (5%) for 13%
Hex 2 - [Succeeded] 4 Tigers (5%) for 29%
Hex 3 - [Succeeded] 3% for an engineering battalion (56%)
Hex 4 - [Draw] 12 Semoventes for 59%
Hex 6 - [Succeeded] 8 Semoventes (12%) for 3 tanks (42%)
Hex 7 - [Succeeded] 1 tank and 25 planes (5%) for 16 planes (5%)
Paratroopers SE of Troina - [Succeeded] 3% for 13%
US Tanks NW of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 19 tanks (5%) for 7 tanks (8%)
US SW of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 4 tanks (5%) for 28%
Br Engineers SW of Gerbini - [Succeeded] ouch; 2 tanks and half the infantry (18%) for 2 tanks(24%)
Paras and Tanks SE of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 4 planes (6%) for 1 tank and 4 planes (11%)
I CANNOT SUSTAIN LOSSES LIKE THESE FOR MUCH LONGER
The 3 PzGren Div arrived in Messina, by the way.
[Round 2] Attack on:
Br Stack on Coast - [Succeeded] 7 planes (17%) for 13%
Armored Force SW of Gerbini - [Failed] 4 tanks (5%) for 8 tanks (17%)
HQ S of Troina - [Succeeded] 2% for 6%
Troina - [Succeeded, with huge losses due to Allied air force] 2 Semoventes (11%) for 7%
Arty W of Troina - [Succeeded] 1 vehicle (1%) for 4%
Arty SE of San Fratello - [Failed] 3% for 0%
HQ and Mortars SE of San Fratello - [Failed] 7 planes (9%) for 8 planes (5%)
180 Inf Reg SE of San Fratello - [Failed] 6 Semoventes (7%) for 10%
SW of Santo Stefano - [Succeeded] 3 Tigers (11%) for 18%
Ah crud, American armor is pushing through my lines.
BEGIN NORTHERN OFFENSIVE
[Round 1] Attack on:
(From Northern Coast) Hex 1 - [Succeeded] 1 tank (5%) for 13%
Hex 2 - [Succeeded] 4 Tigers (5%) for 29%
Hex 3 - [Succeeded] 3% for an engineering battalion (56%)
Hex 4 - [Draw] 12 Semoventes for 59%
Hex 6 - [Succeeded] 8 Semoventes (12%) for 3 tanks (42%)
Hex 7 - [Succeeded] 1 tank and 25 planes (5%) for 16 planes (5%)
Paratroopers SE of Troina - [Succeeded] 3% for 13%
US Tanks NW of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 19 tanks (5%) for 7 tanks (8%)
US SW of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 4 tanks (5%) for 28%
Br Engineers SW of Gerbini - [Succeeded] ouch; 2 tanks and half the infantry (18%) for 2 tanks(24%)
Paras and Tanks SE of Gerbini - [Succeeded] 4 planes (6%) for 1 tank and 4 planes (11%)
I CANNOT SUSTAIN LOSSES LIKE THESE FOR MUCH LONGER
The 3 PzGren Div arrived in Messina, by the way.
[Round 2] Attack on:
Br Stack on Coast - [Succeeded] 7 planes (17%) for 13%
Armored Force SW of Gerbini - [Failed] 4 tanks (5%) for 8 tanks (17%)
HQ S of Troina - [Succeeded] 2% for 6%
Troina - [Succeeded, with huge losses due to Allied air force] 2 Semoventes (11%) for 7%
Arty W of Troina - [Succeeded] 1 vehicle (1%) for 4%
Arty SE of San Fratello - [Failed] 3% for 0%
HQ and Mortars SE of San Fratello - [Failed] 7 planes (9%) for 8 planes (5%)
180 Inf Reg SE of San Fratello - [Failed] 6 Semoventes (7%) for 10%
SW of Santo Stefano - [Succeeded] 3 Tigers (11%) for 18%
"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall
Turn 57, Sept. 4
I got nothin' for Turn 57. Probably it was just more of me trying to push towards Catania. Oh, how foolish I was...
RE: Turn 57, Sept. 4
Turn 57 - September 4, 1943
I am reforming the line. I'm going to bring those around Santo Stefano and Troina back to their original positions (from last turn), while south of Catania my men will pull back behind the Sideto River. The Italians suffered heavily in this offensive, losing perhaps 2 divisions worth, inluding all those that had to be left behind as the Germans withdrew. One armored battalion of the 16 SS PzGren Div is in danger of being cut off, so instead of withdrawing a large portion of the Reichsfuhrer Sturmbrigade has dug in south of the river's mouth to provide a sort of Sacred Way through which they can retreat tomorrow.
[Round 1] Attack on:
Infantry Battalion SW of Santo Stefano - [Failed] 2 Tigers and 21 planes (17%) for 9 planes (4%)
Bombardment of Orange-Warning Hex S of Gerbini - 4%

I am reforming the line. I'm going to bring those around Santo Stefano and Troina back to their original positions (from last turn), while south of Catania my men will pull back behind the Sideto River. The Italians suffered heavily in this offensive, losing perhaps 2 divisions worth, inluding all those that had to be left behind as the Germans withdrew. One armored battalion of the 16 SS PzGren Div is in danger of being cut off, so instead of withdrawing a large portion of the Reichsfuhrer Sturmbrigade has dug in south of the river's mouth to provide a sort of Sacred Way through which they can retreat tomorrow.
[Round 1] Attack on:
Infantry Battalion SW of Santo Stefano - [Failed] 2 Tigers and 21 planes (17%) for 9 planes (4%)
Bombardment of Orange-Warning Hex S of Gerbini - 4%

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"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall
Turn 58, Sept. 5
Turn 58
To the north, my opponent has decided to try his luck at pushing back the US divisions that had been hunkered down in their trenches. Most of the attackers are Italian units, with German units in support. Although the US divisions were caught off guard, they are mounting better defenses now.
Near Gerbini, the US 2 AD has captured the town, and is pushing eastward. As you can see, there are tons of Axis units just waiting to slow me down. In Catania, that's an entirely fresh division brought in from the mainland a few turns ago. Even if I crush a few of his units in this counterattack, there isn't much hope for sustained success.

To the north, my opponent has decided to try his luck at pushing back the US divisions that had been hunkered down in their trenches. Most of the attackers are Italian units, with German units in support. Although the US divisions were caught off guard, they are mounting better defenses now.
Near Gerbini, the US 2 AD has captured the town, and is pushing eastward. As you can see, there are tons of Axis units just waiting to slow me down. In Catania, that's an entirely fresh division brought in from the mainland a few turns ago. Even if I crush a few of his units in this counterattack, there isn't much hope for sustained success.

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RE: Turn 58, Sept. 5
Now that you guys are wrapping up, I have a question I wanted to ask mike; Why didn't withdraw the Commonwealth units behind the Gerbini river alot sooner? It seemed to me the most logical thing to do.
RE: Turn 58, Sept. 5
If Desert didn't take my bait earlier--pulling back the US lines in the north--why would he have done so against the British? I think it actually benefited me that he chose to go with a full attack on the British. It greatly weakened his forces in the south, while I gained reinforcements.
The only problem is that he kept getting more reinforcements, which would have prevented me from landing a crucial knock-out blow.
The only problem is that he kept getting more reinforcements, which would have prevented me from landing a crucial knock-out blow.
Turn 59, Sept. 6
Turn 59
The BR 46 ID arrived and moved up to the south of the main British position. My counterattack is still slowly making progress, but again, the future looks bleak with such a massive German force waiting for me near Catania. In the north, my lines have stabilized, but still lost ground overall.

The BR 46 ID arrived and moved up to the south of the main British position. My counterattack is still slowly making progress, but again, the future looks bleak with such a massive German force waiting for me near Catania. In the north, my lines have stabilized, but still lost ground overall.

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RE: Turn 58, Sept. 5
Turn 58 - September 5, 1943
Well, my withdrawal is going fairly well. It pains me to abandon the northern offensive, because without the 1 ID and half the 2 AD (helping the Brits around Gerbini) the Americans are quite weak there. The SS troops south of the river are ALMOST clear.
I've realized that of the estimated 12 artillery units the Allies have, 5 have 3 range, while 1 has 4 and another 5. 5 are unknown. The Br XIII Corps HQ is a ridiculously overpowered unit and has 5 range as well. I have 10 Italian arty units (all with 2 range with the exception of 2) and 10 German arty units, 2 with 3 range, 5 with 4 range, 2 with 5 range, and 1 with 7 range (I have Wespes and 170mm guns). What this means is that I can bombard a stack of American artillery W of Gerbini with impunity.
Bombardment - 7% (11 guns)
It seems the bulk of the American artillery is halftrack-mounted or self-propelled.
Well, my withdrawal is going fairly well. It pains me to abandon the northern offensive, because without the 1 ID and half the 2 AD (helping the Brits around Gerbini) the Americans are quite weak there. The SS troops south of the river are ALMOST clear.
I've realized that of the estimated 12 artillery units the Allies have, 5 have 3 range, while 1 has 4 and another 5. 5 are unknown. The Br XIII Corps HQ is a ridiculously overpowered unit and has 5 range as well. I have 10 Italian arty units (all with 2 range with the exception of 2) and 10 German arty units, 2 with 3 range, 5 with 4 range, 2 with 5 range, and 1 with 7 range (I have Wespes and 170mm guns). What this means is that I can bombard a stack of American artillery W of Gerbini with impunity.
Bombardment - 7% (11 guns)
It seems the bulk of the American artillery is halftrack-mounted or self-propelled.
"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall
RE: Turn 59, Sept. 6
Turn 59 - September 6, 1943
Withdrawal is 99% complete.
AS is 2/9 right now (from 1/18 yesterday), 4 of my planes have been destroyed for 27-45 of his.
The first Avalanche reinforcements have been detected.
Bombardment E of Gerbini - 21%
Withdrawal is 99% complete.
AS is 2/9 right now (from 1/18 yesterday), 4 of my planes have been destroyed for 27-45 of his.
The first Avalanche reinforcements have been detected.
Bombardment E of Gerbini - 21%
"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall
Turn 60, Sept. 7
Turn 60
British...
I am not about to send my men into a sure slaughter pen between Adrano and Catania. The British 56 ID has arrived from Siragusa and will join the BR 46 ID to replace worn out British divisions along the line. The BR 5 ID and 50 ID have pulled out and will rest for a few days (a week?) south of Gerbini. The fresh British divisions will continue to put constant pressure on the Axis line from Adrano to Catania. With the addition of four heavy artillery brigades, it might not be so difficult to soften up the Axis entrenchments.
US...
I have pulled out the US 1 ID and 2 AD from the Catania-Adrano sectors. With the fresh British troops, I have greater use for the American armor, and the best US infantry division, elsewhere in the coming days. The US 36 ID has landed in Gela, and is marching quickly north through Enna. The 36 ID will rest for a day or so near Nicosia, then fill into the line somewhere between Traoina and San Fratello. Right now, all US sectors are to remain in a defensive stance, but use artillery as opportunities allow.
Overall...
From the arrival of the BR 46 ID a few days ago, through the next few days, the Allied army will receive a huge influx of fresh infantry and armor. But most importantly, for this particular style of battle, a large contingent of both US and British artillery will land on Sicily. If I can outnumber him in the skies and in long-range weaponry, it hopefully will be enough to force some sort of breakthrough. The Axis are firmly entrenched north of Catania; a breach is highly unlikely, or will be too costly. So that brings it all back to the northern coast, and the US forces. Many of the Axis reinforcements were committed to the Catania-Gerbini offensive, so it's entirely possible that a breakthrough in the north won't be counter-attacked immediately. Then again, that's what I thought more than a month ago...

British...
I am not about to send my men into a sure slaughter pen between Adrano and Catania. The British 56 ID has arrived from Siragusa and will join the BR 46 ID to replace worn out British divisions along the line. The BR 5 ID and 50 ID have pulled out and will rest for a few days (a week?) south of Gerbini. The fresh British divisions will continue to put constant pressure on the Axis line from Adrano to Catania. With the addition of four heavy artillery brigades, it might not be so difficult to soften up the Axis entrenchments.
US...
I have pulled out the US 1 ID and 2 AD from the Catania-Adrano sectors. With the fresh British troops, I have greater use for the American armor, and the best US infantry division, elsewhere in the coming days. The US 36 ID has landed in Gela, and is marching quickly north through Enna. The 36 ID will rest for a day or so near Nicosia, then fill into the line somewhere between Traoina and San Fratello. Right now, all US sectors are to remain in a defensive stance, but use artillery as opportunities allow.
Overall...
From the arrival of the BR 46 ID a few days ago, through the next few days, the Allied army will receive a huge influx of fresh infantry and armor. But most importantly, for this particular style of battle, a large contingent of both US and British artillery will land on Sicily. If I can outnumber him in the skies and in long-range weaponry, it hopefully will be enough to force some sort of breakthrough. The Axis are firmly entrenched north of Catania; a breach is highly unlikely, or will be too costly. So that brings it all back to the northern coast, and the US forces. Many of the Axis reinforcements were committed to the Catania-Gerbini offensive, so it's entirely possible that a breakthrough in the north won't be counter-attacked immediately. Then again, that's what I thought more than a month ago...

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