Empires in the Balance (TS GCM v2)

Please post here for questions and discussion about scenario design, art and sound modding and the game editor for WITP Admiral's Edition.

Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition

User avatar
treespider
Posts: 5781
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:34 am
Location: Edgewater, MD

RE: TGC DBB Scenario Packages

Post by treespider »

Excellent analysis...

However I believe you may have overlooked daily resource allotments I gave to Japan.

EDIT: Which it seems you have discovered.


ORIGINAL: Local Yokel

I have been looking into this mod from the perspective of the Japanese player. There’s much about which to be enthusiastic, in particular the additional stress that should be imposed upon the Japanese mercantile marine by increased resource-hauling requirements. Particularly intriguing is the reduction in the rail capacity between China and Manchukuo/Korea, and it will be interesting to see the extent to which this inhibits the gravitation of all surplus mainland resources to Port Arthur/Dairen. My guess is that if this works it will lead to surplus Chinese resources under Japanese control finding their way to Shanghai instead. In one sense this may actually assist the Japanese, because it will spread the resource loading operations over two ports rather than one. This seems likely to mitigate the ‘frictional’ effects upon loading ops that concentrating them on a single port (Port Arthur) may well produce. OTOH, it would compel the Japanese to defend two shipping routes across the Yellow Sea rather than one.

Of much greater concern to me is the impact of some of the changes upon the sustainability of the Japanese economy.

Back in August 2009 I dumped the stock scenario 1 economic inputs/outputs into a database and used this to construct a model of what the Japanese economy required in order to function in its ‘at start’ condition, and the extent to which its deficiencies could be remedied by conquest – particularly in the SRA. I posted the details in this thread. I’ve now adapted the spreadsheet model to carry out a similar exercise for this mod., and the image below sets out the results.

I didn’t have to hand the facilities to repeat the database dump exercise on which my original model was based, so the data shown in the new model may well be incomplete. For example, I know that I’ve left out of account the substantial fuel stocks at Truk, but assumed that these would be used for fleet ops rather than covering heavy industry’s needs. In the ‘Potential Conquests’ section I am aware that I have left out of the reckoning some resource centres, notably those on Nauru and Ocean. I do not expect the omissions to make a radical difference to my conclusions, and so far as I can tell the figures set out a broadly accurate picture of raw materials available to Japan at the game’s start or susceptible to early capture. Unlike my first model, I disregarded the scope for significant captures of oil/fuel/resource stockpiles in the SRA, as this merely adds to existing stockpiles and is a matter of pure chance.

Irrespective of scenario, any assessment of oil and fuel needs is complicated by the need for fuel for ships. The Japanese player will always have to conduct a balancing exercise between what’s required for shipping and what’s required by industry, and for this reason I funked making any comparisons between stock and Treespider’s mod in this respect. However, analysis of the balance between resources available and resources required is much more straightforward, and in this mod. it is a source for concern.

In stock scenario 1, Honshu has to make good a daily shortfall of 112,500 resource points if all industry is to run (both heavy and light). A significant part of that shortfall is readily to hand in the other home islands, so that the daily resource deficit for metropolitan Japan abates to 46,200 points. Most of this deficit can be covered by resource imports from the ‘at start’ Empire territory, further reducing it to just 5,100 points.

But then one must take account of resources stockpiled by the Japanese prior to the outbreak of war. If no resources are imported from the remainder of the ‘at start’ Empire, these stockpiles give the home islands’ economy a ‘reach’ of only 121 days, assuming all home island resource centres also continue full uninterrupted production. However, the availability of most of the resource shortfall in other Empire territory means that, assuming uninterrupted resource production throughout the Empire and efficient shipping of its surplus to Japan, the Empire’s resource reach, taking stockpiles into account, is a healthy 1,426 days: very close to 4 years or up to the end of 1945.

In Treespider’s mod. the resource picture is uncomfortably different. Honshu and Shikoku have a combined daily resource deficit of 168,455 points if all industry is to run. Kyushu has gone from resource surplus to a deficit of 1,260 points per day. Only Hokkaido continues to produce a respectable resource surplus of 42,990 points. Overall, metropolitan Japan has to make good a daily resource deficit of 127,415 points. In this mod, however, aid from other ‘at start’ Empire territory falls far short of making up this deficit. The ‘All Empire’ daily resource output of 305,375 points is still 60,175 points short of what is required: this is THE big difference between this mod. and stock.

What if the Japanese capture the SRA resource centres intact? My figures suggest that the relief afforded to the Japanese economy is marginal. The daily resource surplus additionally available from ‘probable’ SRA conquests is a niggardly 7,840 extra points, reducing the daily deficit to 52,335 resource points. Omitted extra resources from Nauru and Ocean will improve the picture, but not much.

So the Japanese must look again to their pre-war resource stockpiling. Unfortunately this will afford them little comfort. Assuming the same conditions as in stock, the combination of full resource production plus stockpiled resources enables the whole of the ‘at start’ Empire to keep its industry going full bore for 121 days – coincidentally the same as the ‘reach’ of the Home Islands alone in stock. If the meagre additional surpluses becoming available from SRA conquests are factored in, that reach is extended to 139 days – just over 4.5 months as compared with about 4 years in stock!

Another factor to note is that in this mod. supply generation by industry is appreciably less efficient than in stock: 18,680 units per day by the ‘at start’ Empire as against 24,230 in stock. I may have overlooked some supply generation other than by industry, but the point remains that, with only 77% of the industry-generated supply output available from stock, the mod. may well pose big problems for the Japanese player seeking to repair Japanese industry.

A further point to note is that my figures simply reflect the state of the Japanese economy at the start of the game. They allow for no alteration in the amount of heavy industry that may become necessary as a result of changes on the production side that increase demand for HI points, e.g. the expansion of the aircraft/aero engine industry that is more or less obligatory if the Japanese player is to remain competitive. Since in reality there wasn’t much scope for substantial further enlargement of Japanese industry after the war started (and attempts to expand wartime steel production in particular were relatively unsuccessful), it may be right to restrict the Japanese player’s capacity to do so, and force upon him the choice of how he is to re-allocate the slices of his heavy industry ‘pie’. Still, the current figures for this mod. seem to offer the enterprising player little scope even for marginal enlargement of his industrial output and may prevent it altogether, particularly if the reduction in generated supply is such as to prevent repairs to damaged factories.

My figures suggest to me that at some date from May 1942 onwards the Japanese player is going to be confronted with some insoluble economic problems, irrespective of how fortunate and complete his conquests in the SRA may have been. Even if he is efficiently shipping to Japan such resource surpluses as are available, he will be faced with a decision on what part of his industry to shut down, simply because the cushion afforded by his resource stockpiles will have been exhausted. Since daily imports and local resource generation will not then suffice to keep all his industry going, the game engine will take over making decisions on his behalf about what parts of his industry remain in production if he does not do so himself. What this means is that some light industry or some heavy industry output will HAVE to stop (or some combination of both). Produce less supply or produce fewer tanks/planes/ships: not a nice choice to make.

The exact timing of this crisis will depend on what fortune the Japanese had in capturing resource stockpiles in the SRA that can be shipped back to Japan. However, given the meagre output rate of resource centres in the SRA, it doesn’t seem likely that captured stockpiles will have anything but a marginal effect in postponement of the day of reckoning. Look at resource stocks held in Allied bases at game start: within the probable area of early Japanese conquest, the biggest accumulation is a mere 3,000 points at Hong Kong.

I have no quarrel with the argument that Japan should be appropriately economically constrained so far as this is in line with her historical economic vulnerability and the extent to which the Allies successfully interdict materiel delivery to her industry. However, I’ve made the point elsewhere that with certain important exceptions (petroleum products, bauxite and possibly rubber), the Japanese Empire was reasonably self sufficient in resources at the war’s outbreak. If this premise is accepted, then it doesn’t seem right that Japan should have to face the resources crunch that seems to be foreshadowed by my figures, and the way to correct it seems to be by further enlargement of resource production capacity in ‘at start’ Empire territory.

I’m really pleased to see the attempt being made to stress the Japanese merchant fleet more realistically, but I think this may have been achieved at a cost too high for the Japanese player in other respects.

Image
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
User avatar
treespider
Posts: 5781
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:34 am
Location: Edgewater, MD

RE: TGC DBB Scenario Packages

Post by treespider »

ORIGINAL: darbymcd

Looking at it on tracker, I am seeing about a -10k res per day for the empire as a whole, but i haven't conquered everything i hope to yet. that means another 400 Res centers that are free to export, I can get close. Then it is a matter of expand HI or not, but that is where the trade-off part you are talking about comes in. The problem is getting the stuff where it needs to go!!!

It does make me eye much more greedily those places in China with Res now... but it is like running in mud there. In a good way!


Tracker is not going to help you until Tracker is updated to accomodate differing inputs and outputs from Industry and Resource centers.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
darbycmcd
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:47 am

RE: TGC DBB Scenario Packages

Post by darbycmcd »

I was aware of that. I was going from the resource history function which shows net change.
User avatar
Local Yokel
Posts: 1494
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:55 pm
Location: Somerset, U.K.

RE: TGC DBB Scenario Packages

Post by Local Yokel »

Oops! I missed the daily resource allotment of 5,125 points to Utsonomiya - by my reckoning that takes the total of such daily resource allotments to 59,125 points, close to darbymcd's figure - better still!.

Tracker is a useful starting point for these calculations, and this time round I got some of my data from Tracker figures rather than a csv dump of the locations table via witploadae. This is probably why I missed the daily allotments of resources. One does need to be aware of Tracker's limitations, but for building the day-by-day picture of what's happening it's indispensable.

I look on this kind of analysis as an essential starting point for working out what your economy needs, and how (and from where) you're going to drive it.
Image
darbycmcd
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:47 am

RE: TGC DBB Scenario Packages

Post by darbycmcd »

But you got the other ones in there? there are a total of 59k daily that come into the HI
User avatar
witpqs
Posts: 26376
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:48 pm
Location: Argleton

RE: TGC DBB Scenario Packages

Post by witpqs »

ORIGINAL: treespider
ORIGINAL: darbymcd

Looking at it on tracker, I am seeing about a -10k res per day for the empire as a whole, but i haven't conquered everything i hope to yet. that means another 400 Res centers that are free to export, I can get close. Then it is a matter of expand HI or not, but that is where the trade-off part you are talking about comes in. The problem is getting the stuff where it needs to go!!!

It does make me eye much more greedily those places in China with Res now... but it is like running in mud there. In a good way!

Tracker is not going to help you until Tracker is updated to accomodate differing inputs and outputs from Industry and Resource centers.

By the way - did you maintain a list of the bases you added and in what area/region they are located? Are they all in China or did you add bases elsewhere?
User avatar
treespider
Posts: 5781
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:34 am
Location: Edgewater, MD

RE: TGC DBB Scenario Packages

Post by treespider »

ORIGINAL: witpqs
ORIGINAL: treespider
ORIGINAL: darbymcd

Looking at it on tracker, I am seeing about a -10k res per day for the empire as a whole, but i haven't conquered everything i hope to yet. that means another 400 Res centers that are free to export, I can get close. Then it is a matter of expand HI or not, but that is where the trade-off part you are talking about comes in. The problem is getting the stuff where it needs to go!!!

It does make me eye much more greedily those places in China with Res now... but it is like running in mud there. In a good way!

Tracker is not going to help you until Tracker is updated to accomodate differing inputs and outputs from Industry and Resource centers.

By the way - did you maintain a list of the bases you added and in what area/region they are located? Are they all in China or did you add bases elsewhere?

I have an updated regions file for tracker with the base additions.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
User avatar
Local Yokel
Posts: 1494
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:55 pm
Location: Somerset, U.K.

RE: TGC DBB Scenario Packages

Post by Local Yokel »

ORIGINAL: darbymcd

But you got the other ones in there? there are a total of 59k daily that come into the HI

Think I've now found all of them - see my previous post.

Incidentally, I think I have successfully duplicated Treespider's altered map tiles for this mod. in World in Flames style, and will gladly make them available if anyone is interested. They are in a 6MB+ zip file, so I can't upload them here, but could forward them by email or make them available to Treespider for download from his website if he approves.

So far as I can see, the significant changes are:

1) Changes to coast and transport links near Alor Star
2) Change to straits SW of Singapore
3) Change to Luzon at Subic Bay

Anything I've missed?
Image
User avatar
JWE
Posts: 5039
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:02 pm

RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by JWE »

ORIGINAL: treespider
ORIGINAL: darbymcd
Ok, I am super confused. When I go to the link I see the latest version as v04 posted 29 Oct 10, which isn't even the same numbering system as the scen 28 series you are using. so i must be doing something fairly wrong. I get this link for download of DBB

tm.asp?m=2512830

is there a more recent location?

sorry to be difficult with this.
Thats what I used...I call it v102910... also known as 29 Oct 10.
Been out of town, missed this colloquy, thought I might help straighten it out.
DaBigBabes_AE_Scen028_v04 : 10/29/10 : Full Campaign; Dec. 7 Start .. and
DaBigBabes_AE_Scen029_v04 : 10/29/10 : Full Campaign; Dec. 8 Start
are still THE basis DBB scenario file sets.

DBB form the basis of many legitimate and interesting mods, so it will NOT EVER be revised except in two cases:

1) A collection, over time, of corrections to noted typos, suggestions for name changes, different entry dates, entry locations, and data errors. This is more of an update, than a revision, and people can do the noted corrections on their own hook in any case. These do nothing with respect to gameplay and are scheduled months apart.

2) A fundamental tweak to data values corresponding to a perceived issue. Too many people use DBB as a basis, so these kinds of tweaks will be rigorously discussed with the player and modding community way beforehand and will be implemented in accord with their affirmative input.

So DBB is carved in granite, and the dinky changes won't amount to a darn thing. If anything really has to be tweaked, everyone is gonna know way beforehand, and get their opportunity to comment, long before it gets implemented. Okey dokey?

Ciao. John
User avatar
oldman45
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 4:15 am
Location: Jacksonville Fl

RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by oldman45 »

Thats why we hoist a glass in the general direction of Alabama [;)]
Buck Beach
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Upland,CA,USA

RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by Buck Beach »

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: treespider
ORIGINAL: darbymcd
Ok, I am super confused. When I go to the link I see the latest version as v04 posted 29 Oct 10, which isn't even the same numbering system as the scen 28 series you are using. so i must be doing something fairly wrong. I get this link for download of DBB

tm.asp?m=2512830

is there a more recent location?

sorry to be difficult with this.
Thats what I used...I call it v102910... also known as 29 Oct 10.
Been out of town, missed this colloquy, thought I might help straighten it out.
DaBigBabes_AE_Scen028_v04 : 10/29/10 : Full Campaign; Dec. 7 Start .. and
DaBigBabes_AE_Scen029_v04 : 10/29/10 : Full Campaign; Dec. 8 Start
are still THE basis DBB scenario file sets.

DBB form the basis of many legitimate and interesting mods, so it will NOT EVER be revised except in two cases:

1) A collection, over time, of corrections to noted typos, suggestions for name changes, different entry dates, entry locations, and data errors. This is more of an update, than a revision, and people can do the noted corrections on their own hook in any case. These do nothing with respect to gameplay and are scheduled months apart.

2) A fundamental tweak to data values corresponding to a perceived issue. Too many people use DBB as a basis, so these kinds of tweaks will be rigorously discussed with the player and modding community way beforehand and will be implemented in accord with their affirmative input.

So DBB is carved in granite, and the dinky changes won't amount to a darn thing. If anything really has to be tweaked, everyone is gonna know way beforehand, and get their opportunity to comment, long before it gets implemented. Okey dokey?

Ciao. John

Good to know JWE. I had thought you had effected a change halving the ASW throwers as well as cutting the loads of the Cargo ships. Like a dummy I hadn't bothered to check it out though.

Buck
Mac Linehan
Posts: 1519
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:08 pm
Location: Denver Colorado

RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by Mac Linehan »

Gents -

DBB Lives!!!!

Mac
LAV-25 2147
Mac Linehan
Posts: 1519
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:08 pm
Location: Denver Colorado

RE: Treespider Grand Campaign Mod....

Post by Mac Linehan »

treespider -

Was hoping for, and now looking forward to, a "new" Japanese economic model as part of your awesome mod.

Thank You to all who have contributed - directly, or indirectly to this mod.

Well done, Sir!

Mac
LAV-25 2147
User avatar
JWE
Posts: 5039
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:02 pm

RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by JWE »

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
Good to know JWE. I had thought you had effected a change halving the ASW throwers as well as cutting the loads of the Cargo ships. Like a dummy I hadn't bothered to check it out though.

Buck
Yeah, the ASW stuff has been in DaBigBabes, as well as in BabesLite for a long time already. All that was done recently in that area was to make the same changes for John 3rd's RA mod, and post that changelog so others could do the same thing for their games/mods if they wished.

Cutting Cargo caps was done for Spidey's econ mod. It is not included in the regular DBB basis. There is a separate DBB Class file (same as Spidey's) that will be offered as an alternative that can be swapped for the regular DBB Cargo cap file if a player really wants to get gnarly. I thought this was the best way to implement those changes, since other people have standardized on the regular Cargo caps and it would be a bad thing to simply pull the rug out from under them. Ciao.
darbycmcd
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:47 am

RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by darbycmcd »

LocalY - since you are looking at this stuff, what do you think a reasonable amount of Japanese industrial expansion is, for purposes of projection? I am quite conservative I think and so I am not sure I know what a good SWAG would be. At the same time, I guess that most players see a large pool of HI build up, so I don't know if they do expand much anyway. And what do you think about supply with the mod? Do you think it will get low enough to expand LI? Normally, I turn off about 1/3 of the home island LI, so I again I am not sure I have a good basis to judge.
User avatar
Local Yokel
Posts: 1494
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:55 pm
Location: Somerset, U.K.

RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by Local Yokel »

At this stage I think any answer is likely to be no better than a pure WAG - don't think there will be anything scientific about it!

I see three factors that may well invalidate players' previous assumptions about what expansion of Japanese industry is feasible:

1) The 23% reduction in the amount of supply generated
2) The increase in the amount of fuel that will be required to ship resources into the Home Islands
3) The switch of the Ki-44's power plant from Ha-35 to Ha-34, coupled with the fact that at start there are only 10 factories at Maebashi producing the Ha-34

Clearly there's going to be a lot less supply available, and that could have a big impact on the economy's tolerance of major factory alterations with their attendant cost of 1000 supply per production point repaired.

The fuel cost of shipping resources to Japan is going to increase considerably, since (a) more resources have to be imported in absolute terms and (b) fuel cost per resource point imported will go up - an inevitable consequence of each xAK's bulk capacity being reduced. Unclear to me yet whether this will force hard choices between curtailment of imports and curtailment of naval operations. It may well have a bearing on Japan's ability to conduct distant naval operations and influence her 'land grab' strategy accordingly.

I suspect that most players will put a big premium on high-volume production of the Ki-44. To do so, they will have to expand substantially manufacture of the Ha-34. Possibly this may have to be done at the expense of the Ki-49 Donryu, the other Ha-34 consumer. The point is that, at 18 HI points per engine, changes to Japan's aero-engine manufacturing capability have a significantly bigger per-item impact on HI consumption than any other production change.

I think that it may be helpful to assess what significance these factors will have by setting up a sandbox to test these changes in what amounts to a 'Peace in the Pacific' game, and this is what I have in mind at the moment. I am thinking in terms of testing the economy under pre-hostilities conditions, but with the addition of one or two additional sources of oil and/or fuel in the SRA, so that the economy doesn't stall for want of these. Since the net increase in resources obtainable from Japanese capture of the SRA is modest, I think I can rely on pre-war resource stockpiles to keep the economy going without adding the contribution of any any SRA resource centres.

I think I shall need to establish and implement from the outset some expansion plan for production facilities, so as to boost output of single seat fighters and their related aero-engines, including the Ki-44. I believe many players favour an expansion of vehicle production, so I may also provide for this. I foresee a need to keep a particularly close watch on overall supply levels and consumption of fuel, and to see what effects upon resource movement changes to the land transport network have had.

With a total absence of hostilities combat resolution should take no time and it should be possible to get through plenty of turns quickly. Suggestions as to other things of which such a test should take account are welcome. Now to find the time to set it up and run it.
Image
darbycmcd
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:47 am

RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by darbycmcd »

ah, I hadn't even thought about the engine issue... you are right that could be quite significant for supply. i am looking forward to your analysis!
User avatar
witpqs
Posts: 26376
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:48 pm
Location: Argleton

RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by witpqs »

"Peace in the Pacific" - heresy! [:D]

Good idea.

BTW, I guess I missed it, why was the engine change made? Was it to fix an error and make it accurate, or was it done specifically as an economic tweak?
kfsgo
Posts: 446
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:06 pm

RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by kfsgo »

ORIGINAL: witpqs
BTW, I guess I missed it, why was the engine change made? Was it to fix an error and make it accurate, or was it done specifically as an economic tweak?

Apparently (well, according to the internet) the Ha-34 (or Ha-109 - there seem to have been a couple of designations?) was the actual engine used on the Ki-44 - you're looking at a ~1500hp output (vs about 1000 for the Ha-35) so I guess there'd have been some slight engineering differences, heh.
User avatar
Dereck
Posts: 3304
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:43 pm
Location: Romulus, MI

RE: Treespider's New Economy

Post by Dereck »

After reading this thread I'm looking into modifying my scenario since this thread has
provided a lot of ideas for thought.

I'm trying to figure out the basic "NEEDS" of a Japanese economy as per Oil and Resources.

According to the sources I'm using to base my economies on in 1940 for the following raw
resources:

The Japanese home islands produced:
- 16.4% of her iron ores
- 37.7% of her alloying ores
- 22.6% of her aluminum ores (Formosa production included)
- 84.7% of her coal
- 5.5% of her oil (Formosa production included)

Of the imports, Japan imported (from controlled areas):
- 24.2% of her iron ores
- 0.0% of her alloying ores
- 17.2% of her aluminum ores
- 15.3% of her coal
- 0.0% of her oil

So, overall, Japan had to import from uncontrolled areas:
- 59.4% of her iron ores
- 62.3% of her alloying ores
- 60.2% of her aluminum ores
- 0.0% of her coal
- 94.5% of her oil

I've removed all HI centers from Japanese and Allied "colonies". For the HI I removed from
Japanese areas I'll add to the Japanese Home Islands. (Not sure what to do with what was
removed from Allied areas - maybe add to Japan). My feeling is these were colonies and they
were used as sources of raw materials by the colonial powers. This also forces the transport of
oil/resources to the Japanese Home Islands for processing into fuel/supplies and transporting
supplies/fuel back.

The problem I have is that adding all my figures up, the Japanese home islands and controlled
territories have a deficit of 8,130 oil points, 4,625 fuel but have an excess of 15,200 resources.

Somehow, I need to modify things so, without conquered territories, Japan only produces 5% of her
own oil and about 40-50% or her resource needs. I know what I want to do but I'm just not sure
how to go about making it happen.

Any suggestions?
PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)
Post Reply

Return to “Scenario Design and Modding”