March Madness 2012 [CLOSED]

[Krafty]

Gotta make front HQs Hatem, and detaching trains from your supreme HQ to expand in games with roads turned on is always a good idea. They move farther, and everything worth getting is attached to rail.


I learned these things the hard way too

[TPM]

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

Gotta make front HQs Hatem, and detaching trains from your supreme HQ to expand in games with roads turned on is always a good idea. They move farther, and everything worth getting is attached to rail.


I learned these things the hard way too

Yes, I also learned this the hard way...

[TPM]

Nice job cutting off my southern Army SG! I kind of saw it coming, but wishful thinking prevented me front pulling my front back! Might be reaching a crisis point soon...

Turn to SG...

[Krafty]

Should put some thought into there being a consolation FFA game for the ones who dont make it past round 1, and the winner of that game can be either the wild card incase we end up with an odd number of people somehow or incase someone has to drop out before the end.




And lessons I learned the hard way are vast and numerical in ATG. I remember my first game against a human player that wasnt a friend of mine, and how badly I was punished for using up all my oil. All those poor medium tanks....it haunts me...

[hatemf90]

haha true I am learning these things now.

as for oil starvation I am managing that without the tanks [:(]

[Krafty]

Yeah oil is very important.

When I first started out I thought hah, well I'll just use horses for everything! Then ill have plenty of oil!

But no...horses eat so much supply you almost end up with a net loss. If im really low on oil, all ill build is trucks. With enough trucks, artillery, and flak, you can do pretty much whatever youd do with planes and tanks, have the benefit of them being highly mobile, and take less losses. Also fighting with them doesnt use up oil. Making them generally a better investment.

A group of 5 light tanks, moving a few hexes, attacking, occupying, attacking again, can use up an insane amount of oil. For a stack of trucks, artillery and flak, the only oil being used is the oil to move from hex to hex.

Though its hard to lay down general rules for everything, as every map and every situation is different.

Eventually your playbook will fill up to the point where most situations that arise you can go, OH ok, this perticular strategy works best for this situation. Youll realize the opportunities you can capitalize on. That just comes with playin against people.


The two biggest tips I can give, is to have front hqs, maintain higher than 100% staff, and try to never fall below 80% hq power. And that Readiness is everything. If youre below 90% readiness, run for the hills.

Also production usually wins these games because alot of people dont pay attention the big picture. If ive got 10k production, and youve got 8k production, and im killing more of your units than you are mine, ima gonna win, skill or no skill. Territory is meaningless. It only has value if it has a production center, or cuts off units from a supply source. Always retreat instead of die if your on the defensive. Even if youre bleeding territory like a stuck pig, if youre killing more of the enemy than youre losing, and enough to offset a production advantage, youre winning. Nothing messes up a good offensive either than a fast moving front. That 1 horse or 1 truck the bombardment or bombing killed a few turns ago that the guy never thought to replace here or there is gonna string their units out all over the place, with some units advancing others getting bogged down, thats when you can make your wtfpwn counter attack and pray that gives you the initiative when the other guy goes into a defensive mode trying to figure out how you just did that.

It took me YEARS of 4x games to realize these things. Somewhere between Civilization III and Space Empires 4 it just sort of clicked.

Also theres little nuances to defense...like dont take the bait of killing off a division when its going to ruin your units entrenchment. Its hard not to do it when youre in the mode of "whatever hurts him helps me" but generally when youre on the defensive you want the guy on the offensive to hurt himself...cause you probably lost the chance to hurt him ages ago. If he never messes up, so be it, at least you tried. Cant win every time

Just got to always keep the snowballing effects of 4x games in mind, and not let it discourage you if you started out on the losing end of the map generator stick.

More production = more power = lopsided battles = massive XP gain = more lopsided battles = game over. The strategy of the one with lesser production is always to try and throw a wrench into that paradigm anywhere you can, while trying to diffure the snowballing effects so that it buys you time for the other player to make a mistake. Pretty much like going 2nd in chess, if they never make a mistake, so be it, you were bested that day, youll certainly get your chance at going 1st, ie having the most production, and itll then be your chance to attempt to not beat yourself by making a mistake.

[SailingGuy]

ORIGINAL: TPM

Nice job cutting off my southern Army SG! I kind of saw it coming, but wishful thinking prevented me front pulling my front back! Might be reaching a crisis point soon...

Turn to SG...

Not in DropBox. Can you repost it? Thanks.

[SailingGuy]

If we want to convert March Madness to a double elimination.

http://www.playpool.com/anonftp/pub/tou ... ool8de.pdf

What do you guys think?

[SailingGuy]

The pairings on the double elimination chart should be...
1 vs 8
4 vs 5
3 vs 6
2 vs 7

[TPM]

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

Yeah oil is very important.

When I first started out I thought hah, well I'll just use horses for everything! Then ill have plenty of oil!

But no...horses eat so much supply you almost end up with a net loss. If im really low on oil, all ill build is trucks. With enough trucks, artillery, and flak, you can do pretty much whatever youd do with planes and tanks, have the benefit of them being highly mobile, and take less losses. Also fighting with them doesnt use up oil. Making them generally a better investment.

A group of 5 light tanks, moving a few hexes, attacking, occupying, attacking again, can use up an insane amount of oil. For a stack of trucks, artillery and flak, the only oil being used is the oil to move from hex to hex.

Though its hard to lay down general rules for everything, as every map and every situation is different.

Eventually your playbook will fill up to the point where most situations that arise you can go, OH ok, this perticular strategy works best for this situation. Youll realize the opportunities you can capitalize on. That just comes with playin against people.


The two biggest tips I can give, is to have front hqs, maintain higher than 100% staff, and try to never fall below 80% hq power. And that Readiness is everything. If youre below 90% readiness, run for the hills.

Also production usually wins these games because alot of people dont pay attention the big picture. If ive got 10k production, and youve got 8k production, and im killing more of your units than you are mine, ima gonna win, skill or no skill. Territory is meaningless. It only has value if it has a production center, or cuts off units from a supply source. Always retreat instead of die if your on the defensive. Even if youre bleeding territory like a stuck pig, if youre killing more of the enemy than youre losing, and enough to offset a production advantage, youre winning. Nothing messes up a good offensive either than a fast moving front. That 1 horse or 1 truck the bombardment or bombing killed a few turns ago that the guy never thought to replace here or there is gonna string their units out all over the place, with some units advancing others getting bogged down, thats when you can make your wtfpwn counter attack and pray that gives you the initiative when the other guy goes into a defensive mode trying to figure out how you just did that.

It took me YEARS of 4x games to realize these things. Somewhere between Civilization III and Space Empires 4 it just sort of clicked.

Also theres little nuances to defense...like dont take the bait of killing off a division when its going to ruin your units entrenchment. Its hard not to do it when youre in the mode of "whatever hurts him helps me" but generally when youre on the defensive you want the guy on the offensive to hurt himself...cause you probably lost the chance to hurt him ages ago. If he never messes up, so be it, at least you tried. Cant win every time

Just got to always keep the snowballing effects of 4x games in mind, and not let it discourage you if you started out on the losing end of the map generator stick.

More production = more power = lopsided battles = massive XP gain = more lopsided battles = game over. The strategy of the one with lesser production is always to try and throw a wrench into that paradigm anywhere you can, while trying to diffure the snowballing effects so that it buys you time for the other player to make a mistake. Pretty much like going 2nd in chess, if they never make a mistake, so be it, you were bested that day, youll certainly get your chance at going 1st, ie having the most production, and itll then be your chance to attempt to not beat yourself by making a mistake.

Well said...yep, if you're playing someone with even average skill, if they have more production than you, chances are, you'll lose...it's just a numbers game in some ways. That being said, as you stated, if you can weather the storm, and hopefully catch him making a mistake, you might be able to pull off a miracle.

[hatemf90]

Thanks kraft, great tips. oil is still kind of a mystery though. do units use it depending on their movements that turn or use it up every turn like supplies regardless of movement?

I also cant find where its consumed at start of turn. if its -0, +2000 I still only find +700 or something on the next turn, and just use that on few of my trucks and the rest stay at HQ doing nothing, lol

[Krafty]

Generally theres a base line supply use a unit has, but if its taken a readiness hit, like been in a battle, there are a few extra supplies "eaten" to get back up to 100%. If theres no supplies, readiness will continue to plummet. If only the baseline supply, the supply required in its stats, its readiness will just stay put wherever it is.

So theres some supply that isnt really being "tracked" per say in any screen, that gets eaten by units to increase their readiness.

Oil is used, I think 10 oil per hex, per SFT, so it can get quite expensive. 10 Light tanks, moving 1 hex, is 100 oil. I also think planes and tanks use up 10 oil per combat. Might be per round but I forgot. Theres an oil use figure in each units stats that uses it, that may be what it costs per combat round (or movement). But either way theres a "hidden" oil cost of 10 per SFT going on somewhere.

In the statistics screen, theres an Oil, and Oil after movement graph. Some oil is going to be consumed if your planes intercept (and they wont intercept if there isnt enough oil) and if im not confusing classic with one of the many mods, I think transferring stuff by truck or train, costs oil.

But then again some of this stuff might be off a bit. I have to admit I was thrown for a loop playing a Classic masterfile game agian after so long playing mods and scenarios. I keep hunting for recon planes to build, after ive flown all my fighters and remember, damnit, totally a mod unit.


And ive had the pleasant surprise of thinking...what the hell is a Jeep?! about every 3rd turn before I remember, oh yeah, classic game.

[Krafty]

Well said...yep, if you're playing someone with even average skill, if they have more production than you, chances are, you'll lose...it's just a numbers game in some ways. That being said, as you stated, if you can weather the storm, and hopefully catch him making a mistake, you might be able to pull off a miracle.

Which are hands down the most satisfying wins you can have.

[SailingGuy]

IIRC, train transfer does not use oil. Otherwise...nice assessment.

[Krafty]

Yeah that might be the resource mod. Its been ages since ive played classic.

[SailingGuy]

TPM, I think it is your turn. However, you did post yesterday (I believe) that the turn was back to me. However, there was nothing new in the DropBox. So your turn might be complete and you just need to post it to the DropBox.

[hatemf90]

Trains use coal, but trucks do use up oil, thats why I had units piling up in my HQ and the trucks to move them but I still couldnt send anything and i was like wth? lol

[Meanfcker]

Hatem, when you are transferring, there is a screen that shows you your rail capacity and shows how much a transfer will cost.
On these small maps you can make your new units at supremo, already attached to front HQ and just walk them up, shouldnt really need more transport than you start with.

[Krafty]

Aye, i wont transfer but a rifle here, or a mortar there, using trucks or trains. I make a new formation at the HQ im sending production to, and walk them up slowly.

Freshly built units have 10 xp, and low readiness. Throwing them right into battle is a terrible idea.

You can see the couple times I threw fighters and bombers with 10xp at you, you slaughtered them. My strat bombers with 40xp wouldnt have died so easily either, but they went fresh from the factory showroom to the front and into battle.

That few turns they spend building up readiness and xp as they walk to the front is invaluable.

If I have a HUGE production advantage, ill build 50 trucks and simply shove new recruits right into units and constantly attack, but thats ultra rare.

[hatemf90]

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

Aye, i wont transfer but a rifle here, or a mortar there, using trucks or trains. I make a new formation at the HQ im sending production to, and walk them up slowly.

Freshly built units have 10 xp, and low readiness. Throwing them right into battle is a terrible idea.

You can see the couple times I threw fighters and bombers with 10xp at you, you slaughtered them. My strat bombers with 40xp wouldnt have died so easily either, but they went fresh from the factory showroom to the front and into battle.

That few turns they spend building up readiness and xp as they walk to the front is invaluable.

If I have a HUGE production advantage, ill build 50 trucks and simply shove new recruits right into units and constantly attack, but thats ultra rare.

yea. the 50 truck strategy is a waste when our prod. is almost similar. but the making units at front HQ ideas is great, never thought of that, frees up production for oil atleast [:'(] but I dont think it will work if theres an emergency or retreating and need to quickly send reinforcements to plug any holes in the line...