Distant Worlds: Universe Announced!

[Flinkebeinchen]

@Simulation01
They did a progress bar for Endless Space too, they also continued this after the release when they asked the community what features they want next. For DW this would be unthinkable

@Baleur
I agree with your points.

Some thoughts: If you like Steam or not, getting a game promoted on the Steam Frontpage Scroll Bar alone generates much more attention then everything DW:U got yet. So the best thing would be to make a cool looking video with some Megafleets bashing on each other, some thrilling music and in the end show some of the features DW:U has to offer and get it on the Steam Frontpage. No further marketing should be needed. That would be minimal effort for maximal output. I guess thats in line with the marketing department. In the end getting DW:U to many as possible people should be something that we all want.

@topic
Please get rid of that ugly font asap before you promote DW:U further. Its still hard to read after those years. I for myself shelved DW at the moment and play other games (Diablo3, The Last Federation, Dominions 4 etc) while waiting for Infos about DW:U to pop up. I used to check the forums several times a day but after seeing no progress on infos I just check one or two times a week or two. That should not be the goal for a game nearing release. [:-]

[swizzlewizzle]

I have to agree.
I think everyone else will also agree that everyone posting here wants dw to succeed... Maybe talk to the AI wars and x guys and all pull in together to make a "space" bundle.. Chop off 25% off the price or something, make sure the good mods are promoted on the steam news page and start raking in the money.

Please

And Eric thanks for the wonderful game

[Erik Rutins]

Hi again everyone,

A few key points:

1. A lot of the statements here about what we have or have not done for past and current Distant Worlds promotion are incorrect, yet asserted as fact.
2. Distant Worlds: Universe is not yet released. It would seem reasonable to reserve final judgement and conclusions as to the Universe pre-release promotion and release decisions until it is actually released.
3. I appreciate all your feedback and I am grateful for the passion it shows for Distant Worlds. I share that same passion and I can only say that we are doing everything we can to spread the word to the entire space 4x community.

Regards,

- Erik

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
1. A lot of the statements here about what we have or have not done for past and current Distant Worlds promotion are incorrect, yet asserted as fact.

Granted we do not have internal information; however, there is some information we do have which matches the observations of those of us that routinely scan the Internet on titles of interest i.e. your competitors.

Consider the number of reviews according to GameRankings and Metacritic. Neither capture all reviews but nevertheless indicative.

Distant Worlds: 0 reviews according to Game Rankings, 4 according to Metacritic
Stardrive: 16 reviews according to Game Rankings, 26 according to Metacritic
Endless Space: 23 reviews according to Game Rankings, 36 reviews according to Metacritic
Galactic Civilizations 2: 47 reviews according to Game Rankings, 39 reviews according to Metacritic

I'm not aware of a meta-type source but the most viewed videos and largest subscriber bases on YouTube I can find are:

Distant Worlds: Most views is CodeForce at under 100k views, Quill18 has the largest subscriber base (Legends) at 145k
Stardrive: TotalBiscuit, almost 300k views, 1.6M subscribers, with Angry Joe (1.5M subscribers) expressing interest in Stardrive 2
Endless Space: TotalBiscuit, almost 500k views, 1.6M subscribers
Galactic Civilizations 2: As a 2006 release this is obviously unfair on Stardock but here is one with more than 300k views. Galactic Civilizations 3 I'm sure will have many more given Angry Joe (1.5M subscribers) has expressed interest.

Stardrive, Endless Space and Galactic Civilizations are all on Steam so whatever the individual views are, it does help raise awareness.

The most cursory inspection of the websites for each game will reveal the massive difference in information that is released and community interaction.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
2. Distant Worlds: Universe is not yet released. It would seem reasonable to reserve final judgement and conclusions as to the Universe pre-release promotion and release decisions until it is actually released.

Fully agree, I'm withholding judgement, but concerned about the status quo. Matrix needs to acknowledge that past marketing performance is inferior and then develop a plan to improve, which I hope Matrix is about to implement for Universe, then I'll sing from the rooftops.

[Erik Rutins]

First, I'd like far more people to know about DW than know about it now. I've personally put a lot of effort into that, but I know that we as a company have also reached out to many mainstream and independent journalists, bloggers and youtubers to raise awareness. For various reasons, I agree that these other releases are at this point still better known.

We do hope to address that with Universe, both because it will for the first time (since the original release) offer a single unified release and starting point and also for other reasons. I realize much of this is still not apparent to the community, but my hope and expectation is that by the time Universe promotion is complete and it is released, it will be the most widely known of all the DW releases. I know that in our internal discussions, that is the goal and what our marketing folks are working towards and we all share basically the same goals for DW that are expressed here by the community.

It's the best space 4x strategy game out there now in our opinion as well and we want everyone who likes these kinds of games to be aware of it and have a chance to form their own opinion.

Regards,

- Erik

[Icemania]

Well said and good luck.

[Osito]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

It's the best space 4x strategy game out there now in our opinion

Regards,

- Erik

I completely agree with this statement, despite the game's flaws (e.g can I mention font size again?). And I've played pretty much every space 4x pc game released over the last 25 years - all I've been able to get my hands on anyway.

Since I first started playing Legends, last year, every new space 4x I've played has simply driven me straight back to DW.

Osito

[whiran]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

First, I'd like far more people to know about DW than know about it now. I've personally put a lot of effort into that, but I know that we as a company have also reached out to many mainstream and independent journalists, bloggers and youtubers to raise awareness. For various reasons, I agree that these other releases are at this point still better known.

We do hope to address that with Universe, both because it will for the first time (since the original release) offer a single unified release and starting point and also for other reasons. I realize much of this is still not apparent to the community, but my hope and expectation is that by the time Universe promotion is complete and it is released, it will be the most widely known of all the DW releases. I know that in our internal discussions, that is the goal and what our marketing folks are working towards and we all share basically the same goals for DW that are expressed here by the community.

It's the best space 4x strategy game out there now in our opinion as well and we want everyone who likes these kinds of games to be aware of it and have a chance to form their own opinion.

Regards,

- Erik

Skipping around the not seeing the background stuff happening - which is very true and difficult to see - I am curious about the latter part of your response.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

It's the best space 4x strategy game out there now in our opinion as well and we want everyone who likes these kinds of games to be aware of it and have a chance to form their own opinion.

If this is true, and I believe you believe it is, why is it that latest press release for the upcoming Home of the Wargamers' event didn't make mention of Distant Worlds at all?

That's part of the disconnect between what is written here in the forum and what is presented to the larger audience. I read that you want this game to be successful and that you believe it to be amazing and then I look at your official stance and there is nothing about Distant Worlds.

From that I can only conclude that either, officially, Matrix/Slitherine doesn't really expect a lot from Distant Worlds or the marketing team is inept and forgot to mention a game that they believe to be the best 4x strategy game out there. Either option looks really bad.

Here's the direct quote from the latest press release that I could find about Home of the Wargamers:

ORIGINAL: Official Press Release at: http://www.matrixgames.com/news/1364/Ho ... s.revealed

The room we are going to reveal to you now is called the Bishops Room. The Bishops Room will be dedicated to fantasy andscience-fiction. In this room we will present you several details on Sovereignty: Crown of Kings, The latest version of Space Program Manager and of course an update on the development of the game many sci-fi fans are waiting for; Warhammer 40.000 Armageddon.

This is the sort of thing that leaves fans who really want to cheer for their game and share it with everyone with a foul taste in their mouth. After all, if what is being written is true (and, really, I believe it to be true and that you -do- care about this product) then why in the world is that when opportunities arise to promote the product they are ignored? I mean this is a Slitherine/Matrix created event. One would think that adding the words "upcoming Distant Worlds expansion" or "upcoming relaunch of the critically acclaimed Distant Worlds: Universe" into that sentence wouldn't be hard.

It's odd and yet it is surprisingly consistent that games in the Matrix/Slitherine stable often receive this lack of official attention. This, in turn, leads to the speculation of what is done and what isn't being done. When the public results of all the background stuff amounts to very little then rightly or wrongly an easy conclusion to draw is that there is very little background stuff that happens.

After all, if something is failing year after year one would think that a new approach would be tried and said new approach would be announced with some fanfare just to let people know stuff is happening.

As I wrote earlier, it's fascinating to watch so thank you for the case study. I appreciate it because it is interesting to follow.

[Erik Rutins]

Hi Whiran,

The reason it's not mentioned in that particular release is that it only mentions one of the four rooms where we will be showing games to the press and that's not the room that has Distant Worlds: Universe in it. The information on the press event is mainly aimed at the press and as far as I know they have been informed as to all the games that will be featured. I expect that there will be another announcement including all the games to be shown and as before, lots of coverage during and after the event.

As I said above, an analysis of the DWU promotion is probably best done once that promotion is over, as assumptions that we are trying nothing new or doing relatively little are otherwise uninformed, but I understand the concern and frustration in the community and I'll be relaying that to our marketing team as well.

Regards,

- Erik

[Spidey]

Meh, made redundant.

[DevildogFF]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


not mentioned in that particular release is that it only mentions one of the four rooms where we will be showing games to the press and that's not the room that has Distant Worlds: Universe in it.

So if it's not in the "fantasy and science-fiction room", then which one will it be in?

I like Distant Worlds and you've been pretty cordial, Erik, and I appreciate that, but I just don't see all of this adding up.

For what it's worth, I'm done arguing. This doesn't make sense to me and it doesn't make sense to us, DW's most loyal fans. I'm not sure why you're being an apologist for your marketing wing, but it's apparent that there's something amiss here.

Anyway, I'm over it. Do what you will (and already have). I'll keep buying DW games as long as they exist.

[Osito]

ORIGINAL: DevildogFF

I'm not sure why you're being an apologist for your marketing wing, but it's apparent that there's something amiss here.

Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of the issues under discussion, for Erik to give his support to his firm's marketing department is simply the professional way for him to conduct himself.

[Spidey]

Just for the record, you're looking at press releases, Devildog. They're meant to gather external interest in the event. What's the point of naming a title that has absolutely zero external pull in such a press release? How many more people will come if they know DW:U is on display? Just about nobody, since that's approximately how famous the title seems to be, which is largely the main point of putting it on display at the event in the first place?

There should be a complete program for the event in the not too distant future that includes DW, but I wouldn't put too much into DW not being mentioned in those press releases. Besides, that release about the sci-fi room was made back in the beginning of March, and I'm not sure they actually had the plans quite hammered down back then. And it's pretty harsh to blame Matrix for not mentioning a game in a press release about a press event when they weren't quite sure they wouldn't already have released the title by the time the event actually came around.

[Unforeseen]

Personally i find all this complaining ridiculous. The bottom line is that it is Matrix's game, it's there product and its their property that they are going to sell to you. They have ZERO obligation to release information about their products before they are on the shelves.

[hewwo]

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen

Personally i find all this complaining ridiculous. The bottom line is that it is Matrix's game, it's there product and its their property that they are going to sell to you. They have ZERO obligation to release information about their products before they are on the shelves.

+1

[feygan]

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen

Personally i find all this complaining ridiculous. The bottom line is that it is Matrix's game, it's there product and its their property that they are going to sell to you. They have ZERO obligation to release information about their products before they are on the shelves.

Except it is not a product of Matrix Games, yes I understand they are the publisher and through a strange witchery of legal print this allows them the rights. However DW is the brain child of the developer who as I understand it is a single guy working alone, no doubt he plowed both time and finances into getting this game made to begin with and endured some roller coaster moments wondering if it was going to work out or if he was going to have go back to the 9-5 grind.

To excuse a publishers actions based on the "ownership rights" of the ip is crazy as it sets forth a precedence for screwing over developers like cash cows to be milked at set times. A publishers first and foremost duty should be to ensure their clients are represented in the absolute best possible way imaginable, if that isn't happening the publisher should be taking measures to rectify it or sever the relationship to allow the client to find another backer who will put their interests fore front.

For me and I will take a guess many others this is the real issue, no one really cares if this whole thing hurts Matrix and reduces their revenue, what we care about is seeing more DW and that means the developer needs to be able to support himself and his family.

[Icemania]

Well for my part I'm going to back off for the moment until a little while after DWU is released. Erik has acknowledged Distant Worlds is not as well know as it's main competitors (a step forward in my book) and hopefully Matrix Marketing appreciate the legitimate points made and have an action plan that will lead to results.

[DevildogFF]

What Ice said. Damn, you're an articulate person, good sir. I like it.

[Erik Rutins]

Hi Feygan,

ORIGINAL: feygan
Except it is not a product of Matrix Games, yes I understand they are the publisher and through a strange witchery of legal print this allows them the rights. However DW is the brain child of the developer who as I understand it is a single guy working alone, no doubt he plowed both time and finances into getting this game made to begin with and endured some roller coaster moments wondering if it was going to work out or if he was going to have go back to the 9-5 grind.

To excuse a publishers actions based on the "ownership rights" of the ip is crazy as it sets forth a precedence for screwing over developers like cash cows to be milked at set times. A publishers first and foremost duty should be to ensure their clients are represented in the absolute best possible way imaginable, if that isn't happening the publisher should be taking measures to rectify it or sever the relationship to allow the client to find another backer who will put their interests fore front.

For me and I will take a guess many others this is the real issue, no one really cares if this whole thing hurts Matrix and reduces their revenue, what we care about is seeing more DW and that means the developer needs to be able to support himself and his family.

This goes back to one of my earlier points. There are publishers who just sign a developer, take whatever that developer provides and send it out there. We are not that kind of publisher.

We fully support our developers through out the entire process. We worked together with Elliot on the original Distant Worlds for more than two years before it was released, funding and providing almost all of the art as well as advice on many other parts of the game. We have also been actively involved in each expansion and helping Elliot navigate the future of DW in terms of features, design and development, community feedback as well as marketing, publishing and finances.

Without Matrix Games, there would still have been a DW, but it would not be this DW. For better or worse (we certainly believe for the better), we are very involved with our developers and making sure that they are well supported, successful, secure and happy and that the exclusive games we publish meet our community's expectations and raise the bar for our community in as many areas as possible.

There are certainly other publishers out there, but Elliot chose to work with us after evaluating his options and has stayed with us and we're honored to have him here. There are many developers who we've worked with for over a decade simply because the kind of relationship, trust and support we offer is different from what they get with other publishers. Our goal is always to make sure that we make the best games possible and that our developers succeed and thrive so that they can continue making these kinds of games. These are the kinds of games we all love to play.

Regards,

- Erik

[ehsumrell1]

Well said Erik!