Unhistorical Air system - WAD but a poor design in my opinion

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



Now that I have more time, I decided to do more testing.

I started up a 1943 campaign. I moved all the strat bombers from the med to England, and bombed an 8 hex radius box around Kortijk. So this includes the Pas-d-Calais area and Belgium including the forced garrisons of Amiens and

I bombed with the RAF Bomber Command at night from 18k feet.
I bombed with the 8th air force from 20k feet.
I turned refit on for the German army.

I only bombed units, and used all the (considerable) recon aircraft to interdict and raise unit detection.

Every turn I seemed to destroy 30 guns. I kill between 1500-2000 men a turn. Seemed pretty consistant.
The garrison in Belgium drops about 1 or 2 CV points a turn. Although I suspect it will reach an equilibrium.
I had to keep moving units into Belgium.

Now I suppose it could be a tactic to bomb units on garrison on the north coast, since a lot of them cant move very fast,
or are stuck in the garrison cities. I imagine I could kill over 100,000 germans and around 2000 guns if I use the tactical bombers
as well all by the time I launch D-Day. It would also be probably 5 times that in allied citizens, but hey..we don't track that.

After an invasion the detection levels will go up from 4 to 10, and the density of the Germans will increase as they stack on the front, so
the damage will increase.

Oh...rainy weather didn't seem to cause much difference in damage. Storm/Snow would of course stop most of the bombing.

and I thought your were the best person at the air system.

Even my worst test I can do 10k per turn and 100+ guns bro come on you really tring?

As can be seen I can get 30,000 to 34,000 per turn and 600+ guns without even knowing what I am doing as this is the first time I have ever screwed with bombing.

I also did not move a single unit from the CG May 44 set-up.

As per your your thoughts on Quote (After an invasion the detection levels will go up from 4 to 10, and the density of the Germans will increase as they stack on the front, so
the damage will increase.)

Yes I am guessing I could easly get 50k per turn after the invasion.

In my AAR your were able to kill 1800+ men and 140+ gun on a single hex. How is it you are unable to get the same results now?

Just asking

You also posted a long list of battles ect doing more damage then your claiming here.

My old tests in that thread I was only doing 10-20k per turn, but after a few more hrs of testing I am doing better. Your forget how you got those results?

I will do more testing when I get the time next week as I believe Germans can do same thing if there is not 10,000 WA fighters.

Good tests for Russian Front if WitE 2.0 uses the same air system.

Have a Great Weekend Everyone.

[LiquidSky]

AHh..I was only using strat bombers and I started in July '43. I already know how to damage the German units without even using the strat bombers in 1944. I was more curious if you could effect the cv values of the garrisons and how much damage would accumulate over the first 50 turns.

Also I wanted to test a theory on the best way to avoid the damage should some foolish allied player decided to try the bombing unit trick on me.

[szmike]

ORIGINAL: Seminole

The types of bomb loads generally used to bomb cities to start and fuel fires and damage buildings would be different to the type of bomb loads required for attacks on ground units? Yes - you can choose loadouts. Incendaries are coded to be better against manpower. Mines give good naval interdiction.

Off topic, but in tests with Luftwaffe level bombers mines are inferior at generating naval interdiction to loading up as many bombs as you can.

edited to add: Torpedoes are also inferior load out choice to lots of small bombs for the LW. Don't know if this applies to Allied aircraft too.

From my limited testing of Allied loads I can conclude bombs>torpedoes>mines

[riflebrigade]

Thank you for your prompt reply Red Lancer.

The reason I asked the question

“Would the allies strategic bombers have had sufficient quantities of the types of munitions required for multi-day attacks on axis ground units?”

Is if necessary types of munitions were not available in quantities required for multi-day strategic bombing attacks on ground units they could not be carried out on such a large scale.

Would not available quantities and types of munitions have had a major effect (limitation) in the way the allies and axis had to fight the war?

If available the main problem would have been transporting munitions to units, although it should have been easier to provide munitions for British bombers in the UK, if quantities and transport facilities were available.

Is there some abstract way quantities/general types of munitions could be recorded in the game to prevent possible unrealistic play and also possibly effect the strategies needed to be used by the allies and/or axis players?

[SigUp]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

In my AAR your were able to kill 1800+ men and 140+ gun on a single hex. How is it you are unable to get the same results now?

Because he was bombing an HQ. You should know from WitE how soft a target HQs are.

[Seminole]

I always feel AP starved as the Axis, EF box or not.
Do the Allies feel that way?
Would making a ground attack (unit) mission cost 1 AP the way a transport mission does if it uses a LB be a sufficient restraint on spamming this attack?

[Seminole]

I always feel AP starved as the Axis, EF box or not.
Do the Allies feel that way?
Would making a ground attack (unit) mission cost 1 AP the way a transport mission does if it uses a LB be a sufficient restraint on spamming this attack?

[HMSWarspite]

You don't feel that the evidence on VP isn't enough? This attack form loses VP. Yes you could do partial ground, partial city, but this is putting a limit on ground attack!

Let's not forget that Pelton is deliberately holding firm and letting this happen. He could withdraw to the Seine and mitigate some of this. Yes, KWG can still bomb on the Seine, but ground supply route is longer, air ranges are linger, German supply routes are shorter, and Pelton only needs to hold there 4-6 weeks and then he can withdraw again.

Really do not see this as an issue guys...

Oh, and allies are not short of AP.

[Peltonx]

Go here for data

tm.asp?m=4004875&mpage=1&key=&#4004896

[LiquidSky]

I am always short of admin points. With the allies, I usually start to build up a bit of a nest egg just before D-Day, but then blow the wad on motorizing units.

[KWG]

No comment on the Allied ground support system? NONE?

The Allies did it, there was a call to do more and more should have been done. and summer is prime bombing season.


Its not a "I win" button. And test turns are that test turns. Do it every turn and you will lose.

I could maixmize a turn for unit bombing, which I have yet to do, and get more that what people have shown. Ive not done this from day one and its not the only missions Ive been doing.


And test turns show? A whole lot of bombing cause a lot of causlites?.

No word on the stuff that is not being bombed?

How many casualties from 1 day, 1 night of city bombing?

Not all the casualties are killed there will be troops returning.



If the Germans were 3 times stronger, what would the Allies have done?



Heavy bombers are about to be the least of the Germans problems.

If you want to see some real unit bombing get ~400 P47s with low fatigue , high morale and very good weather.


Has no one noticed Iam progressing at a HISTORIC rate?


It seems like a bigger question has been around even before this, Why are the Allied players doing so bad?
Why are the German players doing so well?