Tyrone vs MagicMissile

[tyronec]

Clear in the center so the '42 campaign begins. Onwards to Gorky !
Can't attack Stalingrad this turn - mud.
Baku is not mud so it falls, but the rest of the Cacausus is so that is static.

[tyronec]

Assault on Russia begins, Stalingrad falls and try pushing through the defensive lines in a couple of in the center.
Looks like the Allies are about to take out Spain.

[MagicMissile]

MM Russia in serious trouble barely a single line with some good units but many not very impressive. Probably take Spain as a way to distract the Germans a little bit. I have failed to come up with any other idea [:)].

[tyronec]

Attack into Russia gets rolling, doing some more risky advances to break up the line and have probably caught a unit or two in the South..
We invade Persia.

[tyronec]

Steady drive forwards in Russia, getting about 3:1 kill ratio.

[tyronec]

The fun begins in the West, Allies invade Spain and Vichy France. And Corsica.
I had a load of units in Italy waiting for this so the sea transport across to Eastern Spain. Allied Interdiction is as useless as mine ! Rail as much as possible down through France, no aircraft yet.
Think I have enough units available to be able to counter this, just takes time to rail them over from Russia.
With all the Allies navies around the Med the German surface flees sorties to sink some merchants.

[tyronec]

Game over, MM has conceded. Russia is pretty well out of the game and the Allies cannot win on their own so there was no point in continuing.

My strategy from T1 was to go all out for Russia and in the end it has paid off. Axis are well behind historical around the Med. but with Russia effectively knocked out in '42 it doesn't matter.
It is an open question as to whether this strategy would work with the current patch with the boost to UK production.

Thanks for great game, MM has been a tough opponent.

[MagicMissile]

Yes I decided that it was enough. Russia will be conquered at the latest summer 43. Production down to 160 with lend lease cut off after a nice invasion of Archangelsk. The western allies will never win a war against Germany not even Germany alone because after a sneaky paradrop in Milan Italy decided enough was enough [:)]. Such a gamey thing to do but that is the main lesson Garrison everything. Not sure if I would have done it if the game was closer in that case it could have been a fatal mistake. Mostly I justed wanted to see if it worked.

Anyway thanks for the game Tyrone played very well and deserves to win.

I made some mistakes the biggest might be not building anti tank russian units not sure if the difference would have been enough but maybe. I dont feel that the mistakes up to Barbarossa was fatal even though the defense of France was not good France fell in July so not that early. And we started when allied air dealt some damage so I am not even sure if the German losses were that low. So that leaves could I have done better defending Russia? Probably, I kept the riflecorps and no antitank units that seems to be what could have been better. Otherwise my strategy was trade space for time and preserve the army.But with so many turns of clear weather and Axis reaching Leningrad and Moscow quite fast you have to fight worked for a while but in the end the inferior Russian army fell apart. Also thinking maybe should have given up Moscow and fought harder for Rostov. When Rostov falls the front gets longer which was not helpful. And possibly defending the oil is more important then defending Moscow. Also feel I stayed too long before retreating which cost me quite a number of units.

Anyway great fun!

[MagicMissile]

Also for fun and maybe for balance discussion. Here is a PBEM where I am the Axis and I decided to copy Tyrones strategy.

This is after my august 1 turn. I am not as far east as Tyrone was that is partly because I started 1 turn later and also because my opponent decided to fight more whereas I ran a lot. But on the other hand Russia is down to 1100 army strength (A number I didn´t reach until the summer of 42) and 120 air vs Germany army 1600 and Axisair 500. Russia is also starting to lack units. So in this game too I think a Russian comeback will be difficult.

So clearly Tyrones idea of the early all in invasion is very powerful and how to stop it as the allies is the question.
And yes you do give up some in the Mediteraanean I was 2 years ahead of schedule but it is just not as important. I am now kind of thinking if Germany goes for such an all in sending for exeample 100% italian airforce east (something I think Mussolini would not have liked) and Garrison France with Yugoslav units then maybe western allies should be allowed units in Russia
I don´t know what else to do. I do think Russia will be hard pressed to resist. Or possibly lower oil a little so the axis can´t use his units all the time. I am having a bit of a oilcrunch in my game but it might be a bit too late. I don´t know if Tyrone had oil problems at any time in our game.

/MM

[John B.]

Thanks for the AAR. You should try again now that you're more familiar with the game.

[battlevonwar]

Interesting end and not so "far" off a balanced game. I like the Western Allies Push it's just a little late with the poor Soviets living on borrowed time.

I think Axis all air East is pretty much standard. The riflecorps as speed bumps(to a point) may not be bad the Axis have to wear out some effectiveness and trucks on them. Weaker speed bump units might not be bad at all to force out some of the trucks and slow down the Axis if they actually work. Maybe Cavalry better? Maybe Mechs Better... I have ideas. Lots have been advocating Russian Air, maybe that could work if the Russians could hold on long enough.

Sure there are a lot of pathways to victory and a perfect build for the Russians of course they have a more narrow build than some cause you're really looking to defend territory. Lots of Heavy Armor Tanks/Mechs/Some junk units and lots of hope that the weather is bad. A perfectly timed Western Offensive I'm sure it's possible to defend them?

Interesting AAR! Italy falling in a closer game would of definitely been catastrophic right then and there and Spain.

I am still curious if the Axis are OP(I lost once with 'em and the game I got with Almeron doesn't look at all good for him now he was too short on junk land units and lost a good portion of his air force) He also exacted 300plus points of Axis casualties in France 100 air or so.

[MagicMissile]

ORIGINAL: John B.

Thanks for the AAR. You should try again now that you're more familiar with the game.

Thank you I will. I have 4 more games ongoing and they do take a bit of time after the war in the east starts and US enters but I would like to start maybe one more game we will see [:)].

[MagicMissile]

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar

Interesting end and not so "far" off a balanced game. I like the Western Allies Push it's just a little late with the poor Soviets living on borrowed time.

I think Axis all air East is pretty much standard. The riflecorps as speed bumps(to a point) may not be bad the Axis have to wear out some effectiveness and trucks on them. Weaker speed bump units might not be bad at all to force out some of the trucks and slow down the Axis if they actually work. Maybe Cavalry better? Maybe Mechs Better... I have ideas. Lots have been advocating Russian Air, maybe that could work if the Russians could hold on long enough.

Sure there are a lot of pathways to victory and a perfect build for the Russians of course they have a more narrow build than some cause you're really looking to defend territory. Lots of Heavy Armor Tanks/Mechs/Some junk units and lots of hope that the weather is bad. A perfectly timed Western Offensive I'm sure it's possible to defend them?

Interesting AAR! Italy falling in a closer game would of definitely been catastrophic right then and there and Spain.

I am still curious if the Axis are OP(I lost once with 'em and the game I got with Almeron doesn't look at all good for him now he was too short on junk land units and lost a good portion of his air force) He also exacted 300plus points of Axis casualties in France 100 air or so.

I think I had a little value of the corps since the campaign started in bad weather but they die so easily think maybe cheap cav units might be better. And as I wrote somewhere just two less turns and things would have been bad but maybe surviveable it was the two last turns in September that were really bad.

I don´t know if the axis is OP (I certainly dont feel op in the other game but made so many mistakes there as well) but Germany has the first shot to "win" the game and with very good play they seem hard to stop. And until I see a Russia survive a 41 Barbarossa and get back to Berlin or at least close to it I will think Russia might be a bit too weak or the Axis and the western allies a bit too strong.

[tyronec]

So clearly Tyrones idea of the early all in invasion is very powerful and how to stop it as the allies is the question.
And yes you do give up some in the Mediteraanean I was 2 years ahead of schedule but it is just not as important. I am now kind of thinking if Germany goes for such an all in sending for exeample 100% italian airforce east (something I think Mussolini would not have liked) and Garrison France with Yugoslav units then maybe western allies should be allowed units in Russia
I don´t know what else to do. I do think Russia will be hard pressed to resist. Or possibly lower oil a little so the axis can´t use his units all the time. I am having a bit of a oilcrunch in my game but it might be a bit too late. I don´t know if Tyrone had oil problems at any time in our game.

I was indeed very short of oil, '42 was a knife edge to capture some Soviet oil before Axis bottomed out. This was my first game playing through Barbarossa and would do some things differently next time.
Am not sure how the play balance sits, there are so many permutations in how the Soviets can be played and the recent boost to UK production maybe swings the game towards the Allies.
Would definitely not allow Allies into Russia, IMO that just destroys the whole game. By all means take out the Yugoslavs.

[kennonlightfoot]

I think for the Russian Front weather is the critical element. A few to many clear turns in 41 and it will be very difficult for the Russians to hold Moscow and keep the Germans from taking the Oil they badly need. A few to many snow and mud turns an the Axis will stall. I haven't played enough yet to have any real feel for how the Russians should balance out their production in 41/42. Should they concentrate on air, cavalry, infantry or armor. And, when they should switch with offense in mind.

[tyronec]

I think for the Russian Front weather is the critical element. A few to many clear turns in 41 and it will be very difficult for the Russians to hold Moscow and keep the Germans from taking the Oil they badly need. A few to many snow and mud turns an the Axis will stall.

Will bear that in mind, you think it was weather luck that got me to take the oil.

[freeboy]

ORIGINAL: kennonlightfoot

I think for the Russian Front weather is the critical element. A few to many clear turns in 41 and it will be very difficult for the Russians to hold Moscow and keep the Germans from taking the Oil they badly need. A few to many snow and mud turns an the Axis will stall. I haven't played enough yet to have any real feel for how the Russians should balance out their production in 41/42. Should they concentrate on air, cavalry, infantry or armor. And, when they should switch with offense in mind.

playing as axis I was dead stopped by weather.... 41 scenario, then swung south..
against a human the weather is the one big helper the reds have early to keep them in the war... that and allied aid from US and UK

[kennonlightfoot]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

ORIGINAL: kennonlightfoot

I think for the Russian Front weather is the critical element. A few to many clear turns in 41 and it will be very difficult for the Russians to hold Moscow and keep the Germans from taking the Oil they badly need. A few to many snow and mud turns an the Axis will stall. I haven't played enough yet to have any real feel for how the Russians should balance out their production in 41/42. Should they concentrate on air, cavalry, infantry or armor. And, when they should switch with offense in mind.

playing as axis I was dead stopped by weather.... 41 scenario, then swung south..
against a human the weather is the one big helper the reds have early to keep them in the war... that and allied aid from US and UK

I haven't kept track of mud and snow turns to tell what is average. But I know I pray to the PC gods when its September and the Axis tanks are only three hexes from Moscow. Have the bad luck of 2-3 clear turns around Moscow area in Sep & Oct and they will be in Moscow.

Going for the oil seems like a late fall thing to do. Weather stays clear down there sometimes into Nov.
Whether you need to depends on how heavily you went into building Axis gas guzzling airplanes.[:)]