Defending the Rodina - A Soviet WiTE2 AAR

[Erik Rutins]

This is explained in the first paragraph above:

"Just a general point], a new patch has changed how older game saves are being displayed by slightly altering the FOW rules. Since the saves I am using for the images are from the original game they are affected. The consequence is it looks like the Germans have a lot of 1-1 formations, they don't but can't get around this - so just take their apparent combat power with a very large pinch of salt."

Loki is loading older test saves to write up the AAR and they're not 100% compatible with the current version.

[vvs007]

a few questions:
theater boxes
- there is no control of the resistance from the SU-player, we can not add Li2s and night bombers, distribute weapons and resources to support the partisans?
- Did I understand correctly that aviation in t-boxes follows simplified rules, what will happen if we send all SU aviation to the Finnish front? will it get an accelerated training (better than in reserve)? what if we send only bombers without fighters? Will they be eaten or not?

production
-on the screen of the production of aircrafts, there is information about the needes (minuses), but the artillery does not have this, is it turned on / off?

an unusual increase in the number of non-German units on the map despite losses in the encirclement, is this a new reading of historical data? in wite1 it was low

W on the old screenshot of the rifle corp (did I miss the answer?) - is it the presence of winter equipment? disadvantage means huge operating losses with blizzard?

WITE2 looks great, thanks to the development team! ... Perhaps only the Luftwaffe is too strong, the AAR-losses are far from historical

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: vvs007

a few questions:
theater boxes
- there is no control of the resistance from the SU-player, we can not add Li2s and night bombers, distribute weapons and resources to support the partisans?
- Did I understand correctly that aviation in t-boxes follows simplified rules, what will happen if we send all SU aviation to the Finnish front? will it get an accelerated training (better than in reserve)? what if we send only bombers without fighters? Will they be eaten or not?

production
-on the screen of the production of aircrafts, there is information about the needes (minuses), but the artillery does not have this, is it turned on / off?

an unusual increase in the number of non-German units on the map despite losses in the encirclement, is this a new reading of historical data? in wite1 it was low

W on the old screenshot of the rifle corp (did I miss the answer?) - is it the presence of winter equipment? disadvantage means huge operating losses with blizzard?

WITE2 looks great, thanks to the development team! ... Perhaps only the Luftwaffe is too strong, the AAR-losses are far from historical

do my best to answer:

1) theatres, yes the Soviet player is passive in the Partisan theatre. Technically that is called the 'Soviet Union garrison box' for the axis only. Its used by the axis player - by default most of the German security divisions plus stuff from their allies go into it by about T6 - the German player can voluntarily add more. The effect of the partisans is then driven by events and a comparison of this baseline performance to the size of the garrison (so if the Germans are short the partisans are more effective). In the main the partisans deliver low level interdiction - enough to stop admin movement but no more, in a few instances they launch major campaigns (such as around Orel in 1943 or Minsk in 1944).

Now what a Soviet player can then do, is on map interdiction ground attacks and double team with this scripted interdiction. Put enough effort into that as a localised operation and you might start to noticeable hamper Axis movement - but I'm not sure its really worth it.

As with the factory evacuation system, a lot of sub-systems that have disproportionate attention in WiTE1 simply happen in WiTE2.

2) the air war. Yes you need to meet the theatre requirements and this has both fighters and bombers. But when there nothing really happens, the 'intensity' (from none to very high) sets a rate of attrition losses. You don't get a training bonus for the other theatres but low experience units will reach their standard NM derived values over time.

3) not sure why, but the 'need' number is only there for elements that are produced via the chassis system, so most vehicles have it to but not those produced via the generic production rules. The air number is particularly useful as you have a greater degree of control over the allocation of plane types than over ground elements

4) Axis-Allied are down around 40,000 men between the last 2 reports which I think reflects the pockets and combat losses fairly well. From playing the axis in the Stalingrad-Berlin scenario, you have decent Hungarian reserves so can often refit/replace them, by late 1943 lost Rumanian formations are nearly impossible to rebuild as you don't really have enough manpower to even replace regular combat losses.

The 'total forces' will include Italians in Italy/France/Balkans, Finnish and Bulgarian units

'W' takes you to a new screen. Red Lancer will cover this in one of his showcases but here's a wee peak, it gives you access to a nice historical write up of almost every major unit in the game:



bit hard to comment on matching air losses to history as it depends very much on play style to be honest. I see my airforce as a tool to use (a mindset from WiTW) but even so I'm actually restricting the commitment of the VVS compared to history, so in turn that restricts the losse for the LW. My feeling is few players are willing to burn off their air assets at the historical rate for the VVS

[Nix77]

As with the factory evacuation system, a lot of sub-systems that have disproportionate attention in WiTE1 simply happen in WiTE2.

How do you feel this affects the overall flow of the game, compared to WitE1? Factory evacuation seemed to play a really big role in WitE1, not sure if it actually historically was that big driving factor in the German advance?

On the other hand having control on the factory evacuations felt like a nice subsystem for the Soviet player to control although it was often more about putting out fires than being in charge

Do the scripted evacuations in WitE2 affect rail capacity for the Soviet side?

[loki100]

25 December 1943

This takes the game up to T131. As a side note, given the display issue (it only affects saves from early patches), I've decided the best approach is to use images from the original full AAR. In turn, that makes it more logical to do very short turn by turn reports instead of a long narrative background.

T126

Mid-November finally saw the Soviets storm into Zaporozhye in heavy fighting. This shows which Soviet elements actually were engaged and their relative effectiveness. Due to the terrain, this was essentially an infantry battle.



At the same time, 1 and 2 Ukr struck west in the hope that 3 and 4 Ukr could reduce the salient in their rear. This was an opportunistic attack on a weakly held sector and the bulk of 1 Ukr ws held back.



T127

1 Blr has been fighting for several turns to improve the Soviet position along the Berezina, this turn Western Front managed to liberate Minsk.




T128

Finally making some real progress in the Dnepr bend. Securing the rail yards and better rail lines is now critical if I am to make any real progress into the Western Ukraine.



The results of the air war are becoming more variable. Some LW formations have relatively low experience and, if I outnumber them, I can sweep them from the skies. But every now and then, this sort of thing happens:



T129

The bulk of the front was stalled but fairly important events in the north and south. The Germans are still contesting my gains in the Leningrad sector but in combination with the Dauga/Dvina operations their position around Pskov is now under threat. At this stage I was dreaming of a Courland pocket that covered the whole of Estonia.



And in the Ukraine, finally Dnepropetrovsk falls. That has been on my target list since about t110.

T130

The Ukraine saw a massive redeployment as I finally was able to release 3 Ukr from the Dnepr bend battles.



T131

One bit of off-map news, the Western Allies finally forced Italy to surrender.

The 'Mild Winter' means that the weather is mostly snowfall/snow, river freezing is reaching #6. So a well defended major river is a serious challenge to cross but mostly movement is actually easier (no deep snow penalties).

At Leningrad, the AI is not giving up easily here but this time I held off some more heavy attacks and, unusually, could strike back. This is all a case of one step forward, one step back but slowly I'm altering control of some hexes to me.



1 and 2 Baltic Fronts making some gains, the AI regained the Pskov-Daugavipils rail but its now affected by my ZoC and reasonably optimistic I can hold some of the current line.



The bulk of Western Front started to run into stronger German formations so content to consolidate and re-organise. 1 Bl r made steady gains, handing off its southern flank to 2 Ukr.



In the Ukraine, 3 and 4 Ukr Fronts re-organising after the Dnepropetrovsk battles but 1 Ukr started an attack towards Zhitomir-Vinnitsa.

Well rested, 1 Ukr managed to breach a fairly strong defensive line and cut off the bulk of 2 Pzr divisions (I doubt the outer pocket will hold but the inner one will be hard to breach).

This is a significant change of tactics in that until recently I have gone around the stronger stacks. I now hit them hard – the result is they will be much weaker in the Axis turn and I face less counter-attacks as a result. My logic is best to fight a strong Pzr division when it is on the current front line and I bring in all the assets I want, rather than have it free to attack as it wants later on.

With the 1944 TOEs I often do this by choice, actually start with the stronger units and build up a breakthrough from there.



Ground losses, pretty much 1-1 now.



Even the air war is becoming more even – though I am being very careful about how much I allocate. What I am doing is turning off GS for a given air army once its losses hit a threshold. The advantage is that slowly the average experience of my pilots increases and I need to send relatively few wrecked formations back to the reserve to train up again.



OOB. My army is probably as large as I can supply effectively. I'd actually like to reduce it a little as I move west and my supply lines become stretched – as you can see the reserve is effectively emptied out.



One reason for the reduction in the reserves was I made a commitment to pushing Finland out as soon as I can. Some of that leap in manpower is scripted unit transfers, a lot is voluntarily adding to my strength. Once I have the wider Leningrad sector under control, Finland should crumble fairly quickly.

I don't know what the AI has in the matching 'Finland' theatre, I know they too have more than they need (they are gaining VP for excess forces), but I doubt they have the equivalent of a full Combined Arms army over their baseline numbers.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Nix77

As with the factory evacuation system, a lot of sub-systems that have disproportionate attention in WiTE1 simply happen in WiTE2.

How do you feel this affects the overall flow of the game, compared to WitE1? Factory evacuation seemed to play a really big role in WitE1, not sure if it actually historically was that big driving factor in the German advance?

On the other hand having control on the factory evacuations felt like a nice subsystem for the Soviet player to control although it was often more about putting out fires than being in charge

Do the scripted evacuations in WitE2 affect rail capacity for the Soviet side?

I think WiTE2 does a better job than WiTE1 in setting the role of the Soviet player. You are more obviously the Stavka not Stalin. So I agree that factory evac in WiTE1 is a big focus (I recally working out with some care how much HI/arms pts the Soviet player needed etc) but I've never looked at the evac screens in WiTE2 (apart from when I was writing the manual).

There is a lot of indirect streamlining in WiTE2, such as the partisan war and the production system. Given the complexity of what you have left that is very much to be welcomed. I think it also might mean the sort of player who seeks an advantage from their willingness to do endless clicks finds less scope and that MP games become more about operational planning and ability to use the key systems rather than knowing some obscure trick that only made sense in the context of the rule set.

Yes the evacuations use up your rail cap but in the main I find that in WiTE2 in 1941 I am not really that aware of my limits. In part as each sector has a unique rail capacity (the way the railyards operate) so its not global and also you are not railing in units from the Urals to the front so much (there are a few turns when you have a few but for eg the returning rebuild formations you can allocate readily around Moscow),

[loki100]

12 February 1944

This brings the game up to T138

T132

Main events in this turn were the capture of Daugavipils and Zhitomir and 3 Ukr starting its westwards offensive.

T133

Start of 1944 saw the Germans finally retreat at Leningrad and also start to abandon their remaining grip on the Dnepr bend.

I did a lot of re-organising, effectively disbanded the Volkhov Front as I don't need the command capacity and it will removed in February in any case. Also started to send the various mountain formations that have been in the north towards the Ukraine in anticipation of needing to cross the Carpathians.

T134

Mid January saw the German's not just restore their defensive lines but a series of bruising counter-attacks left a lot of my mobile formations in need of a refit [1]



On the other hand, did manage to capture Vilnius.

T135

Both sides resting north of the Pripyet but I made some small gains in the Ukraine. When it works, Soviet air power can be devastating – not least the next attack on the same sector also removed 200+ German elements from the combat before it even began. Just I can't sustain this level of commitment, and still have a lot of outcomes where my fighters are badly cut up.



T136

A rare turn with blizzards and the front actually moving. 3 Baltic (the old Leningrad Front) reaches the line of the Narva, 3 and 4 Ukr press on towards Nikolaev.

And good news from my allies.



Actually the most important event in that image is the 'Northern Offensive', I've now captured all the on-map triggers to set off the final attack on Finland. While at one level that is now rather unimportant, it does secure me the VP (and bonus) for Helsinki.


T137

The end of January saw 3 and 4 Ukr take Kherson and move into position along the Bug and outside Nikolaev. Again, there are times when I simply attack a strong front line stack to minimise the AI's capacity for counter-attacks.



With the local Axis reserves fully committed to the Bug battles, 1 Ukr fought its way towards Vinnitsa, given the lack of a clear breakthrough, kept the armour back to see what happens.



In the north, Soviet forces reach the Narva but any progress on this sector is slow due to the terrain and a lack of mobile assets.

T138

Ukraine. 1 Ukr makes more gains and briefly gains Vinnitsa (a German counter-attack will retake it), 3 Ukr is stuck in part due to German resistance but it also needs to repair its supply lines. Trying to supply a Front with mobile assets is a challenge when in one of these local black spots.

Not really shown, but 4 Ukr reaches a well defended Nikolaev.



The supply problem is that behind 3 and 4 Ukr I have a lot of unrepaired rail lines and am mostly usng the local NKPS to hook in key potential depots. So the overall dynamic is mostly hand to mouth.

By contrast, 1 Ukr can rely on Kiev. This has been set up to maximise capacity (the Front HQ) and priority (the static NKPS). That in turn either provides a relatively local source for my combat formations or readily pushes supply onto the depots closer to the front [2].



Western Front is now the 2 Blr but is stuck in its current position. By contrast, 1 Blr manages substantial gains and starts to secure some of the dual track rails I'll need when I reach the 1941 borders.



I was really not sure what to do with 2 Blr.

The logical target is directly west along the Neman but I need to reduce that German force between the Neman and Daugava. If they don't pull out, I can't concentrate to sustain a western attack so the best solution may well be to attack NW and make Lithuania the immediate target.



Steady progress in the north but since 2 Blr and 1 Baltic are stalled, there is no immediate threat to AGN's communications so gains are limited.



Ground losses, for most turns this is a typical pattern in that it is essentially 1-1. A few of my newest tanks starting to reach the front line units.




Air losses



I'm still using the Yak-1s and Lagg as ground attack aircraft. They are useful in this role due to their default payload and I lack the specialist planes for the task.

Still no recognisable change in the overall OOB.



[1] You'll find that both the Tank and Mech Corps are poor defensively until the 1944 TOE is adopted. My solution at this stage was to try and assign a motorised or mechanised brigade as a SU but each of those costs around 600 trucks and they too need to be pulled back to refit. I paid the price in that turn with 5 Corps left in a mess as a result of counter-attacks.

[2] Basically I am starting to hit the Soviet version of the 1941 German logistical challenge. The problem is slightly different as I am trying to supply 7.3m men, 18,000 tanks and over 7,000 planes but the consequence – and choices – are the same.

In effect, it is more important to have a well stocked depot network 5-10 hexes behind the front than worry too much about your railheads. But I have so much supply being moved that I can't just rely on the dual track lines I need the secondary links too. And of course, as I move on, a carefully constructed depot system falls too far behind to be of much use. So I need to balance usage of the NKPS between sorting out rail-depot connections and acting as multipliers at key locations.

Hence, combined with the CPP dynamics, all the pauses and sudden lunges.

[MAS]

Thanks Roger, your posts whet the appetite and help to learn the new systems!

A possible AI weakness is shown in the two detailed combat screenshots. One shows the VII Hungarian Corps HQ commanding 2 kampfgruppen of the 11 Panzer Division, and the other the XI Hungarian Corps commanding the Totenkopf Division, which would seem to be a significant combat 'divisor' to these important German formations.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: MAS

Thanks Roger, your posts whet the appetite and help to learn the new systems!

A possible AI weakness is shown in the two detailed combat screenshots. One shows the VII Hungarian Corps HQ commanding 2 kampfgruppen of the 11 Panzer Division, and the other the XI Hungarian Corps commanding the Totenkopf Division, which would seem to be a significant combat 'divisor' to these important German formations.

aye, its still an AI and there seem to be 2 enduring problems that Gary can't fix (or at least easily). One is its choice of HQ chain and the other is the relative importance of river lines. Its doing better at in-hex terrain and identifying key hexes but seems to struggle on that one.

my logic is that I put it on 120 morale as that is what it needs to handle the offensive phase well. Less the direct unit morale modifier and more it brings in some behavioural traits that compensate and make the game far more fun (as an aside, unless you know what you're doing, don't put the Soviet AI > 110 if you start as the axis). It also now helps that good axis play in 1941 is less predicated on pockets and more on sustained pressure on key sectors.

Among the things that 120 gives it is to pass most leadership rolls automatically, the other big thing is it gets extra disruptions as the Axis in June-Oct 41 and then May-Nov 42 and if the Soviet from Dec 42 to the game end.

So I then push it up to 125 and sort of assume it'll waste that in ill designed OOB choices but it has some protection due to side-stepping most leadership rolls

edit: one difference to HtH is in terms of breakthroughs and response. If you play the Axis HtH in the Stalingrad-Berlin scenario (& this is more fun that it might sound), you tend to focus on controlling the breakthrough aspect but if your opponent pulls it off things can get very messy till you scramble to regain some control of the situation.

The AI will give you more chances for the breakthrough aspect but then re-acts better than a human player could, which is why I have this pattern of a devastating opening blow and exploitation, a couple of turns of making further gains and then tending to stop and re-organise. Partly this reflects the CPP/logistics system but also by about T3 the AI has rebuilt its defensive lines. So in the post above, 2 Blr is facing a wall of steel and I didn't really have a clue what to do next.

[loki100]

25 March 1944

This brings the game to T144. Since I am having to rely on recycling images from the full AAR, I'm going to keep to a quick turn by turn reporting model and then some form of overview.

T139

Finally saw the German positions in the Ukraine start to weaken. 4 Ukrainian managed to cross the Bug and an exhausted 3 Ukr made a few gains. Given this offers the chance to finally clear the central Ukraine I turned 1 Ukr east and risked some deep exploitations.



Just to restate, GS works in this game, the Sturmoviks disrupted a lot of combat elements (plus the Soviet artillery) leaving a well placed formation vulnerable.

The negative side of this, is I still have bad outcomes and even when it works I pick up a lot of losses. So still rotating air groups back to the National Reserve to train up new pilots.



T140

The AI responded robustly in the Ukraine. I lost Vinnitsa (again), had a cavalry corps trashed and my spearheads cut off. So I made the best of a bad job, put Odessa to one side and decided to finish off that salient that has been stalling me for weeks.

Finding Nikolaev so well defended was a shock as I need that for the advance to Odessa (plot spoiler – this is going to take some resolving).



There is not much going on north of the Pripyet. I'm making marginal gains around Lake Peipus and mostly letting the main fronts rest. Also my truck situation is still a bit marginal and I can't afford to sustain an offensive across the whole front.

T141

Still all about the Ukraine. The main pocket actually held so left it to weaker Armies to actually collapse and pulled the better formations together for a renewed drive on Odessa.



On the other hand, round #1 of the slaughter at Nikolaev. At least I knocked their fortifications down a lot.



T142

Early March, saw a shift in my approach. While the weather remains relatively settled at some stage the spring rains will hit and ideally I want to stop at a point where I have good supply (the enduring truck problem).

The limited action in the north starts to speed up. AGN is now in full retreat but there is a chance for a pocket around Pskov, 2 Blr is focussed on Lithuania in preparation for a summer offensive over the 1941 borders.



Nikolaev cost me another 9,000 losses over 2 attacks.



At least it should fall next turn. As an aside, I think the German player needs to use this trick. You clearly need to commit significant forces (4+ divisions) but that is creating a huge delay, certainly more than 4 such divisions in the field. As the Soviets move west, the few very large rail yards are critical to their supply network and this sort of defence is a real problem. Which indeed will be a feature of the battles in Germany.

T143

It took 3 more bloody assaults to clear Nikolaev. Its not just the time delay (or the losses). 4 Ukr is completely wrecked and will take 3-4 turns to refit.

I can take some optimism that Odessa is now on the situation map but if it is as well defended as Nikolaev that is another VP bonus lost.



German counter-attacks weakened 2 Blr but finally managed to threaten a pocket in eastern Lithuania.



T144

Improving my truck situation is a slow process. The extra 1944 LL is welcome but I have a deficit and to repair the situation in individual units often means moving them well back from the front line to pick up missing trucks. I probably have too large an on-map army but with all these long salients I need the formations just to provide flank protection.



In wider news, my glorious allies suggest that the Second Front will be a wee bit delayed, while Finland starts chatting about an exit strategy.



Given a combination of the wrecked 4 Ukr, the cost of destroying that last pocket and that I am badly placed (really didn't want to turn 1 Ukr east), not much I could do in the Ukraine. Both 1 and 3 Ukr sent mobile formations back to the rear to refit and rest.

Depending on the weather, there may be scope for a sustained offensive aimed at Odessa in April – certainly no point trying to make substantial gains now.

2 Blr gained its goal of reducing the Postavy pocket (E Lithuania) and some more gains along the Dauga. That leaves AGN reliant on two single track rails (from Riga) and whatever is landed at Talinin. Building up the Baltic fleet air arm to see if I can limit this as this is a situation where a naval air campaign is worth a serious commitment.



Which oddly makes Leningrad and 2 Baltic Fronts the centre of attention. Goal is to be well placed for the primary targets (Pskov and Talinin) for an early summer offensive.

I can't sustain any operations here, and lose quite often, but mostly hold onto my gains, so its a slow under-mining of the Axis position rather than anything dramatic.



And time to discuss where I think I am with the VP table.

In theory there are 440 city points and 156 bonus pts on the list (here I am discounting any Odessa bonus. So ever managing an auto-win, before April 1945 is unlikely but the points are there). I can't see anything like that occuring at any of the earlier set of checks.

I need 80 to match the HWM by Jan 45. Assume the northern trio (Pskov/Riga/Talinn) will generate 48 and given the current front those gains are secure. I should also take Lvov and Odessa by early summer (so up to 68).

Given where the front lines are, staying ahead of schedule in the north is feasible so maybe one or both of Koenigsberg and Warsaw by late summer? Either will give me a match vs HWM.



Beyond that, I come to some big choices. It is clear that the AI is strong in the Ukraine and I am really struggling to match the historical timescale. I can't see any reason for this to radically change so while I am sure I'll put Romania out of the war by late 1944 I could be late for the VP.

So I think the big choice is do I hunt an auto-win in April 1945 (feasible only if I maximise the Rumanian-Hungarian VP) or gamble on Berlin before the end of May 1945. If I go for that, and become entangled in the AI's defensive lines then a draw starts to emerge as the likely end point.

If this analysis is right then I need to decide by say September 44 if I am going for VP across the map or to gamble on Berlin before the cut off date?

So, the politics (VP gain) point south and the Balkans, a military victory suggests taking the direct route into Germany.

OOB. The really big numbers are not shifting, if anything the Germans have more tanks. At least I am finally starting to take on my 1944 models which really helps. It looks like the Germans have around 10 divisions in their reserve, I presume this is what they have lost in the winter battles refitting. They gain a final manpower boost in the summer of 1944, after that my expectation is what they lose stays lost as they lack the manpower to refit properly.



Losses, not a good turn for me. There were a lot of German counter-attacks on my more exposed formations, hence accepting a forced pause on operations. T34/85s now in action along with IS2s.




Ok, not many T34/85s yet, but am shedding the last KVs from my heavy tank formations.



As an over-view (I've removed the weather graphics to make it a bit more clear), the northern part of the front. AGN is retreating at its own pace, my only mobile assets north of the Dauga are cavalry but clearly there is now a direct threat to Riga from the northern parts of 2 Blr.



Central sector. As far as I can, I've weakened my front lines to allow me to refit and prepare. Ideally I want to use 2 Blr to take Koenigsberg and 1 Blr to drive SW towards Brest-Litovsk etc. But that is dependent on clearing out the German positions on 2 Blr's northern flank.



The Ukraine. Especially for 3 Ukr (the pink coloured formation), you can see how much I have pulled out of the line. Almost all its mobile formations are well back trying to capture trucks (also they shed less as they are then closer to my functioning depots). Vinnitsa is back under Soviet control (if I recall it changed hands 4 times).

[MAS]

You may be slightly behind historical schedule in Ukraine, but you are 4 months ahead of schedule in Belorussia and the Baltics. I predict you will win an auto victory in 1944, regardless of the strategic direction you choose. But go north of the Pripet! [:)]

I know the AI is fighting for VP cities and time bonuses, but for those players who ever dreamed of fighting the Germans under Hitler's stubborn operational direction, (his historical obstinacy), it seems this is the AI for them! As an example, by retreating behind the natural defensive barrier of the Lake Peipus system in the Baltics, the AI could free up a lot of German formations, but the AI seems determined to hold "every inch of ground". The Axis manpower losses in the screen shot below are catastrophic at 143,000 in a week!

A few questions regarding this screen shot please:

1) what does the double arrow symbol and gnd 10, air 2 mean in the upper left?

2) regarding your comments about being short of trucks, this shows you have 372k vs. 409k needed in units? 90% of requirement doesn't seem too bad?

3) BUT, 45k tons received vs. 82k tons of supply does appear to limit you.

4) the artillery icon tons rec @ 69k; is this ammo or specifically artillery ammo? How can you tell the difference between whatever this is and what the units are calling for?

5) men rec I assume is replacements received by on map units? 187,000 men probably takes up quite a bit a freight space on trains (let alone their equipment?). Is there a metric for x men (replacements) = y freight? Also, I assume the way to reduce this manpower load on freight is to set on map units to lower TO&E percentages?

Again, all my gratitude to all you developers / play testers - this is an amazing achievement you are part of.

[MAS]

Apparently I don't know how to do screen shots. here's another try of the Turn Summary shot with my scribbles.

[loki100]

do my best to answer.

First the big picture. I really struggled to deploy enough from Moscow to Stalingrad as that sudden AI offensive caught me by surprise. I had done some preplacement of depots and air base expansion but it could have swept into the city on the second or third turn if it had retained the same singular focus. Now there is a warning here to all Soviet players in HtH, you cannot quickly reinforce Stalingrad so get your 1942 defenses in early.

By the time I had the situation stabilised I was left with more than historical or needed at Moscow. Now the flip side, the terrain in western Russia is almost made for the WiTE2 Red Army. It rewards using powerful formations to break a line, the Germans then struggle to refit those formations and you can make steady gains. A German player can work out a decent solution but it involves a defense in depth (the Stal-Berlin scenario is good for testing all this), the AI tends to a strong shell defence.

All of which is a long way of saying my 2 Fronts in that sector are too strong for the AI to cope with, I can run a cycle of attack, advance and rest. Which is why I've ended up with this odd balance of success/failure. The other thing is I reckon the AI left too much in AGN, now thats a judgement but as I approach Riga it has to abandon Estonia etc in any case.

So the big question is does it spot the trap (even if a wee bit late) and can it then use AGN to shore up its line in the Baltic region? Well as a partial clue, I don't win in 1944 [8D]

So to the specifics:

1 - is a tab that allows you go to the reinforcement screen. The numbers say I brought 10 ground units (any size) and 2 air groups to the map - either scripted transfers or from the national reserve. This turn summary screen is handy both as a quick glance and that it gives you access to other screens.

2 - 10% hurts but its localised. The armour in the centre prob has 40+ MP if it rests, sometimes its sat at 50. 1 Ukr tends to be in the 35-45 range but 3 Ukr is in trouble. I need to restore the depot system on its sector (this is the legacy of the delays at Dnepropetrovsk) and its using its own trucks to find supplies and still short of fuel.

3 - that mirrors the point above. 3 and 4 Ukr struggle to gain what they need, 1 and 2 Blr are relatively ok, the Baltic Fronts are short (but I don't really care as they are not going anywhere). But overall not good, which is why I'm cautious about pushing too far this side of the Spring rains

4 - thats just the icon, so its ammunition received

5 - the manpower number is a little bit misleading. Yes replacements count as freight this is why the Germans in 1941 really struggle to replace their losses as replacements compete with all their other demands. Not all that manpower goes into the combat units though, if I set up a new airbase (move planes there) or create a new depot its shown as 'reinforcements' which is a bit misleading as usually I am redeploying

I could lower the TOEs but its not as useful as in WiTE1. The key here is that in WiTE1 you had a global rail cap, here I have lots of localised ones (with overlaps) as each rail yard (size 2 or more) generates its own localised rail capacity.

It is an amazing game, genuinely fun to play once you get the mechanics sorted out. And in many ways much more intuitive to play than WiTE1.



4 -

[John B.]

Again, thanks so much for the very detailed AAR. This must take a lot of work! The see-saw battle for Vinnitsia (sp?) brings to mind a question on bonus VP. If you take a VP city early do you have to hold it for some period of time to keep the bonus? Or, if the situation presents itself can you run a unit into the city on a Hail Mary and reap the bonus even though the unit is quickly destroyed?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: John B.

Again, thanks so much for the very detailed AAR. This must take a lot of work! The see-saw battle for Vinnitsia (sp?) brings to mind a question on bonus VP. If you take a VP city early do you have to hold it for some period of time to keep the bonus? Or, if the situation presents itself can you run a unit into the city on a Hail Mary and reap the bonus even though the unit is quickly destroyed?

No, its an immediate feedback (for good or ill). This can create more of a challenge for the axis player (usually) as if they take a city (say Kharkov) v early they get the +6 but if the Soviets then get it back (due to a mistake) they get a +6 (so it balances out). But if the Axis take on the historic date they get +3 but if they then lose it (even for the Soviet half turn), the Soviets get +6.

So in the main, make sure you can hold it if possible. Kalinin and Rostov are tricky as both have Nov/December 1941 Axis and Soviet dates that are close together, so one side or the other can feasibly run up quite a net bonus depending on how capture/loss work out.

[John B.]

That makes sense. Thanks!

[loki100]

6 May 1944

Takes it all up to T150. A set of turns when a combination of the weather and the strategic position led to not very much happening, apart from planning and re-organising.

T145

Early April, saw a set of dramatic events in the north. The Finns signed an armistice [1]



In turn, AGN finally started to fall back but some formations were cut off north of Pskov.



T146-T149

Rains hit and were sustained, and nothing really happened till the end of April. The sudden retreat of AGN left me with a dire supply situation in the Baltics with few depots and a lot of unrepaired rail lines, became very reliant on shipping in via the ports.

So the start of May saw a lot of planning.

A wider issue is at this stage is my view that a Soviet Front can sustain 4-5 turns of operations before it needs to go over to the defensive. This is due to my need to keep my depots close to the front as well as to rebuild lost CPP. So a Front can operate in say May and July or June and August. I'm going to work on this two phase model for the moment as my building blocks for the critical 1944 operations.

Not really part of any wider plan but 2 Baltic Front needs to destroy the Pskov pocket. Once it has done that I'll largely remove it from the map, some formations may go to fill out secondary areas. Others can go to the reserve – as the front line shortens I can run my army down a little.

This also shows the negative side of the sudden capture of Estonia – masses of unrepaired rail lines. I gain another NKPS next turn so that can come here and at least help create a core network.



Intention is to use these two Fronts to take Riga and the balance of the Baltic coast. Perhaps also for Koenigsberg. At the moment still moving 2 Blr south of the Dauga so it will take a while before they are ready – not helped by lack of rail connections.



These remain the most powerful formations I have. Again it will take a few turns to concentrate and hand over the flanks to secondary formations.

First echelon targets are Augusov-Bialystok-Brest Litovsk. Secondary targets are to clear Masuria and capture Warsaw,



Clearly far too scattered to do much. 49 and 65A represent most of its effective attacking options and should be able to reach Rovno.



My second key combination. Actually 3 Ukr is badly placed due to the attempt to take Odessa but that will probably help with having to attack in echolon (or my supply situation will become really bad). Primary goals are Proskurov and northern Moldavia, then try for Lvov and take Romania out of the war.



4 Ukr is an odd collection of formations – actually has no truely motorised units so its mobility relies on cavalry corps. Coastal Army is set up for a naval/paratroop invasion of Rumania. Primary goal is Odessa.

Long Range air is currently deployed here to support the attack on Odessa – I'm expecting a repeat of the street fighting at Nikolaev so want the depot wrecked before I start.

Once I am into Rumania will need to re-organise all 3 Fronts. Most of my mountain divisions are in 3 or 4 Ukr but would be better to bring them together in several specialist armies to help with the Carpathians. Then need to think carefully about how much armour to commit into Hungary.



Given where I am in terms of the deployment cycle it makes sense to start in the Ukraine. If I am right in my basic estimate, that means 3 offensives (May, July and September with the hope that by the end of that Rumania is out of the war – and ideally I have the VP rich targets of Ploesti and Bucharest).

T150

The weather reinforced that basic analysis, heavy rains in the north but fairly clear in the Ukraine.

3 Ukr opens with the usual destruction of the axis front lines, accompanied by a reminder that the Luftwaffe is not finished.



Despite all its notional mobility, only 5 GTA is really ready for exploitation operations and runs straight into an undetected Panzer reserve [2].

4 Ukr opened disastrously. It is going to be a long grim slog to Odessa if this carries on.



Still on balance, some small gains and a fair number of axis formations badly cut up.



While I am gaining a lot by using the VVS for GS, still taking heavy losses – all that came from just 2 air armies.




[1], that removed any lingering concerns over meeting the HWM in December, also a reward for voluntarily building up my forces in that theatre.

[2] Both sides appear to have a lot of recon assets in 1941 so its tempting to use them 'just to have a wee gander'. Advice is don't, by 1944 they are a rare asset, each of my main fronts has 2 recon formations and I try to only use 1 each turn (& that at low intensity). So this sort of unexpected encounter becomes all too common.

[Sardaukar]

I'll be very interested about naval/para invasion of Romania. That might get things rolling faster in south.

[MAS]

+1 Please show details of how your amphibious / para ops are conducted!

It's eye opening to see how far most of the German fighter pilot's skill levels have dropped. Is that partly due to not enough fuel to train them? Or is it just the AI rushing them to battle from Reserve before they've completed training?

What do the two column headers DAM and DAMD stand for, and what do the large 3 - 4 digit numbers represent under them?

[jacktimes2]

Good to know about recon planes becoming markedly rarer as the war carries on. I've had that jump up and bite me in WITW before.