Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass

[warspite1]

Jan/Feb 1940
End of Turn

Finalise Production

Japan

All good with Japan. No oil was used to reorganise and so she keeps the 10 oil as per the Preliminary Production Phase.

[warspite1]

Jan/Feb 1940
End of Turn

Finalise Production

China

All good with China - nothing to report.

Commonwealth

The Commonwealth Saved At Start seems wrong. The CW had 10 oil at the start of the turn and saved 5 = 15. 3 oil were used in reorganisation. Now it could be something to do with the fact that 2 oil used to reorganise were from Singapore, but I would have expected 'Saved at Start to be 10 - 3 = 12.

As said, I expect that this is what it would show had I used, for example the Manchester and Coventry oil. When I check Italy I will try this out.

Ultimately though, the CW has the right number of oil - 12 - at the end of the turn.



France

All good and as expected. No oil expended and so saved oil increases to 4.

United States and USSR

As previously discussed, all good one extra oil saved each.

[warspite1]

Jan/Feb 1940
End of Turn

Finalise Production

Commonwealth

Yes, it appears that my guess was right. So when I used previously saved oil (in the UK and Burma) the Saved at start reduces by 3 but the controlled increases by 5 - which is the 5 I saved this turn. So we still come out at 12. It reduced by only 1 in the previous screen because I used a controlled oil resource this turn. I guess I can now do this because the oil is not coming to the CW under a Trade Agreement and so can be used this turn.

[warspite1]

Jan/Feb 1940
End of Turn

Okay for this next turn I've added a German Trade Agreement with Italy and will be adding in some partisans.

Comments welcome as ever on any glaring errors or whatever.

[warspite1]

Mar/Apr 1940
End of Turn

So we get to the end of the March/April 1940 turn and are at Production Planning. At the end of the last turn a Trade Agreement was set up so that Germany gives 3 resources (including 1 oil) to Italy.

Also at the end of the last turn, the Germans had 8 oil saved - 7 in Berlin and 1 in Lodz. This was checked to what was on map and all was okay.

But a look at the Preliminary Production form shows something potentially a little odd. The Saved at Start shows just six oil - 5 in Berlin and 1 in Lodz. Why?

[warspite1]

Mar/Apr 1940
End of Turn

First thing is to check if the Controlled figure is correct.

Germans start this phase with: 8

They have 6 oil incoming: 2 from Romania, 2 from the USSR and 2 on their own territory.

So before looking at oil reorganisation, production or trade etc, the Germans should have 14 oil at the end of this phase - not the ten showing.

But while we don't know what will be used in oil reorganisation, we do know 1 oil is going to Italy and, at the moment, 1 oil is being used for production. So that means that 4 oil are being saved. So why is German oil not showing as:

Saved at Start: 8
Controlled (i.e. the four saved): 12

Here is a screenshot of the map to prove that I am not going mad and there are 8 German oil saved. And please see post 139 to confirm that 8 were actually saved last turn and so should be the German's opening number of Saved at Start oil.

So what has the program done with two German oil?

[warspite1]

Mar/Apr 1940
End of Turn

I think the best thing to do is play through the rest of the turn for Germany and Italy only, and see what happens. There is a disconnect between what oil is showing on the map and what the production screen thinks the Germans have.

It's a shame I don't have a screenshot of the moment the program went awry. I will remember to take regular screenshots at the end of this turn to see if it does it again, when did the problem occur.

Germany

So the first thing I do is to increase the German production. Instead of saving 4 oil, I decide to save only 3 oil and so get another Build Point.

Doing this does something weird to the Saved at Start number. This now moves from 6 to 7 (remember it should be 8 anyway). In moving this number, the Controlled total has not changed from 10 (remember this should now be 11 (before the oil reorganisation phase)).

[warspite1]

Mar/Apr 1940
End of Turn

Italy

I now move to Italy. Italy had 2 saved oil in Milan and this is showing correctly on the Saved at Start. Controlled also shows 2 because, at present, the Italians are using both oil it receives (1 from Romania and 1 from Germany) in production.

[warspite1]

Mar/Apr 1940
End of Turn

Italy

The Italian navy is using a lot of oil so I will amend this to save both oil in Milan.

So all looks in order for Italy.

[warspite1]

Mar/Apr 1940
End of Turn

Germany

So now we come to oil reorganisation for Germany. And this is what I see....

The 7 German saved oil in Berlin are showing, as is the oil in Lodz, plus the Austrian oil. This should all be correct. The 3 oil saved this turn was from trade and so can't be used to re-organise this turn. The German oil is being used to send to Italy. So this screen is correct - and makes the PP screen difference even more baffling.

[warspite1]

Mar/Apr 1940
End of Turn

Germany

I decide to use one of the Berlin oil and expend the whole point (in practice I may have decided to not reorganise 0.2 worth and save the oil, but for the purposes of this walk through I want to see how the program handles the change.

Remember at this point the map shows 8 oil, the oil reorganisation screen assumes there are 8 oil, and the PP screen states there is only 6 (although it changed to 7 when I saved 1 less oil in the PP phase!).

[warspite1]

Mar/Apr 1940
End of Turn

Italy

Italy is okay. It shows the two previously saved oil available for reorganisation (the two received from trade can't be used) and both oil are used to keep the Regia Marina in play.

So whatever problem is affecting Germany (seemingly once the trade agreement was set up), this is not translated to Italy in any way.

[warspite1]

Mar/Apr 1940
End of Turn

Germany

Something stranger still happens at Finalise Production stage....

The Saved at Start and Controlled numbers remain the same as when they changed at PP stage and pre-oil reorganisation.

But in staying the same they are now showing the correct numbers. I mean how the hell?

The Saved at Start shows 7 oil and there are 6 saved in Berlin and 1 in Lodz. This is correct as there were 7 in Berlin but 1 was spent in the oil reorganisation phase... In green we then see the 3 oil saved this turn.

So incredibly the numbers have come out correct. There were 8 oil saved last turn, and of the 6 oil Germany receives, 3 oil were saved this turn while 2 were used in production and 1 sent to Italy under a trade agreement) = 11 and 1 was used in reorganisation.

??????

So the next thing I will do will be to play around with the numbers and see if this still comes out correctly. I will not spend an oil on reorganisation and in another test, perhaps save all four oil.

If anybody has any comments on what happened in the run through - and did I miss something? - then I would be grateful.

[warspite1]

Mar/Apr 1940
End of Turn

So this is the 2nd Work Through. As said, this time I am going to make no changes from the program. This means there will be 4 saved oil (the only thing I do is switch the saved location to Lodz for 3 of them.

Germany

....and as soon as I do...

[warspite1]

Mar/Apr 1940
End of Turn

Germany

So I don't reorganise any units with Germany this time

[warspite1]

Mar/Apr 1940
End of Turn

Germany

And the numbers come out correct.... 8 oil saved at the start + 4 saved (the other two going to production and Italy) - 0 for reorganisation.

So is this something to do with the maximum number of oil allowed to be saved in Berlin? Did the program - thinking that 3 more were to be added to the 7 already saved in Berlin (meaning that 2 would be destroyed) decide to not show the excess?

Is that what was happening here Steve?

This would also fit in with the change in Post 147 when the Saved at Start increased by 1 to 7 when I moved 1 of the saved oils this turn to production.

I mean if the program is accounting for potential overstack that is impressive. But is it? e.g. is there an order in which overstacked oil must be destroyed? If its saved oil first before oil received in trade agreements then this would be the prefect explanation for what has happened here - and with a bit of explanatory text on the form - would be a very useful tool to aid players.

[warspite1]

So does anyone have any thoughts on the two scenarios posted and what the numbers for Germany could have meant?

[Centuur]

To be honest, I've never checked if the number of saved oil points stated in this form are correct. So I don't know what the reason is those numbers are not what one would expect them to be.

[warspite1]

Okay thanks. I guess I need to wait for Steve to respond. It is a mystery where these numbers came from and a bigger mystery how the numbers came out right - especially in the first scenario.

It's a shame, with a nice 4-day break I could have got quite a bit more done. This has been useful for me if no one else!

[warspite1]

Still nothing from Steve on this, but I understand he's been working hard on supply calculation issues for a while now.

I would really like to continue with this. So hopefully not too much longer.