Another attempt by Japanese Fan Boys to skewer this game further away from history in your favor.
Get used to the fact that the Allied players have strategic bombers and when they are in range they will destroy your industry. That's what they did in real life and you want "realism" so deal with it.
As for all this heavy flak damage - once again you're trying to make your side stronger and the allied weaker. You complain that there was no precision bombing but conversely there was no precision AA either. You just shot it up in the air and if it hit something it hit ... most didn't.
And as far as Mr. Frag's statement about 90 bombers being too much over the target here are some facts about a number of B-29 air raids over Japan (taken from a web site - http://home.att.net/~sallyann2/b29.html - about the 9th Bombardment Group and also "The Rising Sun"):
25 Feb 1945 Tokyo 201 B-29s
9/10 Mar 1945 Tokyo 298 B-29s with only 14 lost
13 Mar 1945 Osaka 300+ B-29s
16/17 Mar 1945 Kobe 306 B-29s with the air rad lasting 2 hours 10 minutes
15/16 Apr 1945 Tokyo/Kawasaki 300+ aircraft with only 13 aircraft lost
23 May 1945 Tokyo 562 B-29s ... pg 837, "The Rising Sun"
26 May 1945 Tokyo 502 B-29s ... pg 837, "The Rising Sun"
30 May 1945 Yokohama 517 B-29s ... pg 838, "The Rising Sun"
01 Jun 1945 Osaka 458 B-29s
1/2 Aug 1945 Nagoaka 750 B-29s
It should also be noted that on the 1/2 August 1945 Nagoaka raid the B-29's had something like a 3000 mile run and dropped 6260 tons of bombs. The US 8th Air Force in Europe, in it's best effort over Cologne, Germany on 11 October 1944 dropped only 2923 tons in a 650 mile run.
PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)
Another attempt by Japanese Fan Boys to skewer this game further away from history in your favor.
Get used to the fact that the Allied players have strategic bombers and when they are in range they will destroy your industry. That's what they did in real life and you want "realism" so deal with it.
As for all this heavy flak damage - once again you're trying to make your side stronger and the allied weaker. You complain that there was no precision bombing but conversely there was no precision AA either. You just shot it up in the air and if it hit something it hit ... most didn't.
And as far as Mr. Frag's statement about 90 bombers being too much over the target here are some facts about a number of B-29 air raids over Japan (taken from a web site - http://home.att.net/~sallyann2/b29.html - about the 9th Bombardment Group and also "The Rising Sun"):
25 Feb 1945 Tokyo 201 B-29s
9/10 Mar 1945 Tokyo 298 B-29s with only 14 lost
13 Mar 1945 Osaka 300+ B-29s
16/17 Mar 1945 Kobe 306 B-29s with the air rad lasting 2 hours 10 minutes
15/16 Apr 1945 Tokyo/Kawasaki 300+ aircraft with only 13 aircraft lost
23 May 1945 Tokyo 562 B-29s ... pg 837, "The Rising Sun"
26 May 1945 Tokyo 502 B-29s ... pg 837, "The Rising Sun"
30 May 1945 Yokohama 517 B-29s ... pg 838, "The Rising Sun"
01 Jun 1945 Osaka 458 B-29s
1/2 Aug 1945 Nagoaka 750 B-29s
It should also be noted that on the 1/2 August 1945 Nagoaka raid the B-29's had something like a 3000 mile run and dropped 6260 tons of bombs. The US 8th Air Force in Europe, in it's best effort over Cologne, Germany on 11 October 1944 dropped only 2923 tons in a 650 mile run.
How many ships were hit?[:D]
Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan
Another attempt by Japanese Fan Boys to skewer this game further away from history in your favor.
Get used to the fact that the Allied players have strategic bombers and when they are in range they will destroy your industry. That's what they did in real life and you want "realism" so deal with it.
Who here ever disputed that strategic bombing didn't destroy Japanese industry (by way of destroying Japanese cities with fire bombs)?
This can be done in WitP and, thus, all is OK.
But we here argue something completely different - usage of strategic bombers against ships...
Any way to sway you to run a test against a port with a ton of AA units in it? If we are going to look at the effects of strategic bombers vs ships in port, we might as well look and see if about 6 AA units with alot of supply has any effect on the bombers.
Q: Which was more effective against bombers, anti-aircraft fire (flak) or fighters?
A: This varied from theater to theater and even from mission to mission but overall flak brought down more Allied aircraft than any other single cause. In 1944, German flak destroyed 3,501 American aircraft - nearly 600 more than Luftwaffe fighters. Conversely, anti-aircraft fire over Japan not as effective. While more than 2,000 B-29s suffered various degrees of damage to flak, antiaircraft fire by itself was credited with downing just 29 of the giant bombers.
PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)
Ah, but you can not compare German to Japanese. Germany was way ahead on AA tech plus the 8th very rarely came in at 10,000 feet over a target. Because there was a ton of Flak that would shred them and make them dogmeat for the fighters.
So are you trying to tell me that 6 AA batt of 80 75mm or 105mm AA guns are not going to effect any allied bombers? Even in real life, any allied raid performed at 10,000 feet or lower against that would be shot to pieces. May not destroy them, but it will dang sure fill your planes with holes.
It is one thing to go after an area target like a city, quite another to be going after the ship in a harbor.
Any way to sway you to run a test against a port with a ton of AA units in it? If we are going to look at the effects of strategic bombers vs ships in port, we might as well look and see if about 6 AA units with alot of supply has any effect on the bombers.
I will try to do that today (when i get home from work)...
Any special list of Japanese AAA units you guys want me to test in this new test?
Any special US plane you guys want me to test (B-29/B-17/B-25) in thsi new test?
As promised here are test results against transport when there are Japanese AAA units present - everything else is same as in previous tests (see below for more details and cross-check with similar test in this same thread when no AAA was present)!
Description:
I created brand new custom scenario for this testing.
There are only 3 islands present: Marcus Island, Wake Island and Midway. Marcus Island is IJN base while Midway is USN base. For this test Wake Island is made Japanese base with both Port and Airbase (and SPS) of 6.
There are 7 Japanese LCU's (1x 2nd Fleet HQ, 2x Heavy AA Bn and 4x AA Rgt) at Wake Island together with ships in port.
Weather is always clear.
FoW is OFF.
Two B-29's groups have their default leaders (50's/60's ratings) while their EXP and morale is set to 70.
The B-29's have to fly 14 HEXes from Midway to Wake Island.
The B-29's attack from 10000ft.
In Japanese held port there are 10x AO, 10x TK and 30x AP ships (all sizes and shapes).
5 consecutive runs of scenario in day (i.e. daytime bombings):
Japanese Ships
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AO Iro, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 1
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
Japanese ground losses:
531 casualties reported
Guns lost 20
Port hits 8
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 7
Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
Japanese Ships
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Iro, Bomb hits 3, heavy damage
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
Japanese ground losses:
737 casualties reported
Guns lost 25
Port hits 8
Port fuel hits 3
Port supply hits 5
Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
5 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
Japanese Ships
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 2
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
Japanese ground losses:
307 casualties reported
Guns lost 13
Port hits 5
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 3
Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
Japanese Ships
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 1
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 1
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
Japanese ground losses:
307 casualties reported
Guns lost 14
Port hits 5
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 4
Aircraft Attacking:
14 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
25 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
18 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
Japanese Ships
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Iro, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
Japanese ground losses:
394 casualties reported
Guns lost 19
Port hits 6
Port fuel hits 4
Port supply hits 5
Aircraft Attacking:
24 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
12 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
Japanese Ships
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
Japanese ground losses:
173 casualties reported
Guns lost 9
Port hits 2
Port fuel hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
I see no less hits than when no Japanese AAA was present (see my previous tests in this same thread for more info).
The only "strange" result was 4th daytime run where there were destroyed B-29's (in no other test run there were destroyed B-29's).
Note that Japanese AAA units consist of:
Heavy AA Bn (2 units used):
105mm AA Gun x18
13 mm AAMG (2) x 6
Heavy AA Rgt (4 units used):
105mm AA Gun x12
75mm AA Gun x12
13 mm AAMG (2) x 8
Thus there were (in total):
105mm AA Gun x84
75mm AA Gun x48
13 mm AAMG (2) x44
Also note that that there were _NO_ 20mm AA Gun in OOB because only IJN AAA units have it and there are no separate IJN AA units in OOB - therefore I had to use the IJA AAA units (although the height at which bombers attacked = 10000 ft would be too high for 25mm anyways)...
As promised here are test results against transport ships when B-29's are substituted by B-17E's - everything else is same as in previous tests (see below for more details and cross-check with similar test in this same thread when no AAA was present)!
IMPORTANT NOTE:
In order to achieve this I just changed aircraft type used by bomber groups from B-29 to B-17E. This way all pilots are same and leaders are also the same. I also changed B-17E endurance to match the endurance of B-29 (without this they would lack range).
Description:
I created brand new custom scenario for this testing.
There are only 3 islands present: Marcus Island, Wake Island and Midway. Marcus Island is IJN base while Midway is USN base. For this test Wake Island is made Japanese base with both Port and Airbase (and SPS) of 6.
There are 7 Japanese LCU's (1x 2nd Fleet HQ, 2x Heavy AA Bn and 4x AA Rgt) at Wake Island together with ships in port.
Weather is always clear.
FoW is OFF.
Two B-17E's groups have their default leaders (50's/60's ratings) while their EXP and morale is set to 70.
The B-17E's have to fly 14 HEXes from Midway to Wake Island.
The B-17E's attack from 10000ft.
In Japanese held port there are 10x AO, 10x TK and 30x AP ships (all sizes and shapes).
5 consecutive runs of scenario in day (i.e. daytime bombings):
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 87
Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 18 damaged
Japanese Ships
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 2
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Iro, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 2
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
Japanese ground losses:
645 casualties reported
Guns lost 24
Port hits 14
Port supply hits 3
Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
48 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
24 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 91
Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 26 damaged
Japanese Ships
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
Japanese ground losses:
404 casualties reported
Guns lost 17
Port hits 11
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 2
Aircraft Attacking:
48 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
20 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
15 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
Japanese Ships
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Iro, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1
Japanese ground losses:
284 casualties reported
Guns lost 16
Port hits 6
Port fuel hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
46 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
11 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 91
Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 28 damaged
Japanese Ships
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Iro, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 2
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
Japanese ground losses:
731 casualties reported
Guns lost 32
Port hits 10
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 3
Aircraft Attacking:
13 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
26 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 93
Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 28 damaged
Japanese Ships
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 2
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Iro, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 2
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
Japanese ground losses:
436 casualties reported
Guns lost 20
Port hits 9
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
36 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
32 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 59
Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 13 damaged
Japanese Ships
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
Japanese ground losses:
201 casualties reported
Guns lost 13
Port hits 1
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
32 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
Similar to my previous B-29's test the B-17E's also wrecked havoc similar to when there was no Japanese AAA present.
Also there was just one instance of test run when there were destroyed B-17E's.
One other thing - attack at night was the most massive one I ever saw in any of my test...
Note that Japanese AAA units consist of:
Heavy AA Bn (2 units used):
105mm AA Gun x18
13 mm AAMG (2) x 6
Heavy AA Rgt (4 units used):
105mm AA Gun x12
75mm AA Gun x12
13 mm AAMG (2) x 8
Thus there were (in total):
105mm AA Gun x84
75mm AA Gun x48
13 mm AAMG (2) x44
Also note that that there were _NO_ 20mm AA Gun in OOB because only IJN AAA units have it and there are no separate IJN AA units in OOB - therefore I had to use the IJA AAA units (although the height at which bombers attacked = 10000 ft would be too high for 25mm anyways)...
Another attempt by Japanese Fan Boys to skewer this game further away from history in your favor.
Get used to the fact that the Allied players have strategic bombers and when they are in range they will destroy your industry. That's what they did in real life and you want "realism" so deal with it.
As for all this heavy flak damage - once again you're trying to make your side stronger and the allied weaker. You complain that there was no precision bombing but conversely there was no precision AA either. You just shot it up in the air and if it hit something it hit ... most didn't.
And as far as Mr. Frag's statement about 90 bombers being too much over the target here are some facts about a number of B-29 air raids over Japan (taken from a web site - http://home.att.net/~sallyann2/b29.html - about the 9th Bombardment Group and also "The Rising Sun"):
25 Feb 1945 Tokyo 201 B-29s
9/10 Mar 1945 Tokyo 298 B-29s with only 14 lost
13 Mar 1945 Osaka 300+ B-29s
16/17 Mar 1945 Kobe 306 B-29s with the air rad lasting 2 hours 10 minutes
15/16 Apr 1945 Tokyo/Kawasaki 300+ aircraft with only 13 aircraft lost
23 May 1945 Tokyo 562 B-29s ... pg 837, "The Rising Sun"
26 May 1945 Tokyo 502 B-29s ... pg 837, "The Rising Sun"
30 May 1945 Yokohama 517 B-29s ... pg 838, "The Rising Sun"
01 Jun 1945 Osaka 458 B-29s
1/2 Aug 1945 Nagoaka 750 B-29s
It should also be noted that on the 1/2 August 1945 Nagoaka raid the B-29's had something like a 3000 mile run and dropped 6260 tons of bombs. The US 8th Air Force in Europe, in it's best effort over Cologne, Germany on 11 October 1944 dropped only 2923 tons in a 650 mile run.
No one is disputing city attacks at all. Thats exactly what they were made for.
It is when heavies are used for low alt attacks on non-city targets. Lets stick with the facts here. Go find some data that shows 100+ aircraft raids from anywhere other then Tainan against the Japanese homeland.
As promised here are test results against transport ships when B-29's are substituted by B-25C's - everything else is same as in previous tests (see below for more details and cross-check with similar test in this same thread when no AAA was present)!
IMPORTANT NOTE:
In order to achieve this I just changed aircraft type used by bomber groups from B-29 to B-25C. This way all pilots are same and leaders are also the same. I also changed B-25C endurance to match the endurance of B-29 (without this they would lack range).
Description:
I created brand new custom scenario for this testing.
There are only 3 islands present: Marcus Island, Wake Island and Midway. Marcus Island is IJN base while Midway is USN base. For this test Wake Island is made Japanese base with both Port and Airbase (and SPS) of 6.
There are 7 Japanese LCU's (1x 2nd Fleet HQ, 2x Heavy AA Bn and 4x AA Rgt) at Wake Island together with ships in port.
Weather is always clear.
FoW is OFF.
Two B-25C's groups have their default leaders (50's/60's ratings) while their EXP and morale is set to 70.
The B-25C's have to fly 14 HEXes from Midway to Wake Island.
The B-25C's attack from 10000ft.
In Japanese held port there are 10x AO, 10x TK and 30x AP ships (all sizes and shapes).
5 consecutive runs of scenario in day (i.e. daytime bombings):
Japanese Ships
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 1
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 1
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
Japanese ground losses:
336 casualties reported
Guns lost 15
Port hits 4
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
31 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
20 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
11 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
Japanese Ships
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Iro, Bomb hits 1
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 1
Japanese ground losses:
455 casualties reported
Guns lost 20
Port hits 4
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 4
Aircraft Attacking:
48 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
12 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
Japanese Ships
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 1
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
Japanese ground losses:
367 casualties reported
Guns lost 14
Port hits 3
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 2
Aircraft Attacking:
34 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
34 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
12 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
Japanese Ships
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 2
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
Japanese ground losses:
240 casualties reported
Guns lost 13
Port hits 7
Port supply hits 2
Aircraft Attacking:
36 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
35 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
5 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
Japanese Ships
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Iro, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
Japanese ground losses:
468 casualties reported
Guns lost 17
Port hits 4
Port fuel hits 4
Port supply hits 9
Aircraft Attacking:
48 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
20 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
21 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
Japanese Ships
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
Japanese ground losses:
127 casualties reported
Guns lost 6
Port hits 2
Port supply hits 2
Aircraft Attacking:
46 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
Similar to my previous B-29's and B-17E's test the B-25C also wrecked havoc similar to when there was no Japanese AAA present.
This time, though, in every test run there were B-25C destroyed.
One other thing (again) - attack at night was the almost equal to daylight attack in strength (i.e. numbers of aircraft used) and this was the first time in all my tests that this happened...
Note that Japanese AAA units consist of:
Heavy AA Bn (2 units used):
105mm AA Gun x18
13 mm AAMG (2) x 6
Heavy AA Rgt (4 units used):
105mm AA Gun x12
75mm AA Gun x12
13 mm AAMG (2) x 8
Thus there were (in total):
105mm AA Gun x84
75mm AA Gun x48
13 mm AAMG (2) x44
Also note that that there were _NO_ 20mm AA Gun in OOB because only IJN AAA units have it and there are no separate IJN AA units in OOB - therefore I had to use the IJA AAA units (although the height at which bombers attacked = 10000 ft would be too high for 25mm anyways)...
Japanese AA units aren't worth the supply they consume...
I think Apollo 11's runs provide some pretty good empirical data. Using the current WITP model in 4 raids half the AAA in the Japanese arsenal can't bring down more than 1-2 [assuming bogus reporting] out of 90 B-17/B-29 lumbering along at 10000. I guess the best the poor Japs should hope for is mechanical failure or maybe a delivery of bad beer at the U.S. o'club. Seems questionable to me.
Apollo can you try the same run using Betty's? Watch them get torn a new one. For grins maybe you can try it at 10K, 15K and 20K.
Leo, as a point of interest, care to rerun the exact same set after dropping the durability down to that of a Nell just to see whether it is the AA fire or the aircraft that is the problem.
Can we get a test run (with or without AAA, don't think it matters for this) on an empty port? I think it would be enlightening to compare how much damage is done to the port facilities.
This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.
Leo, as a point of interest, care to rerun the exact same set after dropping the durability down to that of a Nell just to see whether it is the AA fire or the aircraft that is the problem.
Raymond I will most probably do it tomorrow - it's nearing 9 PM here and I haven't eaten yet... I will set both armour and durability for B-29 to be same as for Betty...
