CHS Pending Change List

[Lemurs!]

Brad,

I am doing the air data changes. Probably the largest reason i lowered early war and fighter aircraft durability was to further diferentiate between bombers-fighters and between early war-late war aircraft.

One change i am still contemplating is lowering the mnvr values on a few late war aircraft a point or so. Many of these aircraft were fast and not much else. But that is for a later date.

Many of the durability changes came about because of a data check i did that listed the empty weights of every aircraft in the game, thinking this would give at least some insight into the ratings in game.
I then took this data and compared aircraft giving pluses and minuses to various aircraft based on their records.
I am hoping this will show a bit more difference between early and late war aircraft.

At Niks advice, and from some testing i am doing i may go and up the durability of all aircraft by say 5 points and see what this will do.

I don't know if i will do that though because the air combat per se is not broken, it is LARGE air combat that is broken.
Thus, an increase in durability for everyone and we will start seeing 20 on 20 fights with zero casualities as a matter of course.

Mike

Comments are always welcome, some things i feel i am doing a good job on, like maneuver ratings, but durability i am just guessing and testing. And putting in a lot of historical data whereavailable.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

Hi Don,

I just remembered another issue I've seen. On Luzon, there is an artillery unit. It's a vehicle artillery unit. (Motorized support and motorized AA guns). That unit doesn't have the option to bombard, like any normal artillery unit. It can only deliberate or shock attack. I don't know what's correct. Either it should be a tank unit or it should only be allowed to bombard. I'm guessing that either the guns are listed incorrect in the database or it's a tank unit that is called artillery.

Sorry that I can't remember the exact name of the unit. But, it's the only Vehicle artillery unit on Luzon (and the only one I've noticed in the entire OOB).

bc

I think that is the way it is going to have to be and may even be the most accurate implementation.

The equipment of the Provisional FA Group was 48 75mm SP Gun (on halftracks). This was the same gun that was used as the hull gun in the M3 Medium Tank series and the Halftrack with the gun was classified as a tank destroyer. It could be used as artillery, of course, but only close in.

I think the range (2) of the device (469) is what prevents bombardment being selected.

Don

[Bradley7735]

Sounds good to me.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Hipper

Tiny point

Youve got indominable entering at the middle east at 27/01/42, IRL she was flying Hurricanes to Java on that Date

cheers

I've been trying on and off since you made this post to find the exact date that Indomitable arrived at Aden. I know she was there "in January" and that the destroyers HMAS Napier, HMAS Nizam and HMAS Nestor were (part of?) her escort to Java. But I just can not find the date they arrived at or left Aden.

I'm about to give up and set all four ships to arrive at Aden 2-weeks prior to the January 27, 1942 flyoff of Hurricanes to Java. Does anyone have any additional data before I do??

[Lemurs!]

The only thing i have is a book that staes "Indomitable rounded the Cape on the 2nd of January".

mike

[Iron Duke]

Hi Don,

From The Illustrious and Implacable Classes of Aircraft Carrier 1940-1969 by Neil McCart

Indomitable left Capetown on Friday 2 jan 42 remaining in the area for 24 hrs
arrived off Aden on the morning of Sunday 11 january 42
spent just over 24 hrs in Aden
arrived at Port Sudan 14 jan 42 embarked 261 sqdn pilots and Hurricanes(48)
15 jan 42 left Port Sudan for Addu Atoll arriving 21 jan 42 (refueled and restored for 21 hrs)
25 jan 42 at Cocos Is. for refueling from RFA Appleleaf
27 jan 42 at lat 11deg - 15's/long 106deg - 05's about 50 miles se of Christmas Is. and 350 miles due south of Batavia flew of the 1st 16 Hurricanes

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Iron Duke

Hi Don,

From The Illustrious and Implacable Classes of Aircraft Carrier 1940-1969 by Neil McCart

Indomitable left Capetown on Friday 2 jan 42 remaining in the area for 24 hrs
arrived off Aden on the morning of Sunday 11 january 42
spent just over 24 hrs in Aden
arrived at Port Sudan 14 jan 42 embarked 261 sqdn pilots and Hurricanes(48)
15 jan 42 left Port Sudan for Addu Atoll arriving 21 jan 42 (refueled and restored for 21 hrs)
25 jan 42 at Cocos Is. for refueling from RFA Appleleaf
27 jan 42 at lat 11deg - 15's/long 106deg - 05's about 50 miles se of Christmas Is. and 350 miles due south of Batavia flew of the 1st 16 Hurricanes

Thanks! I'll move Indomitable, the three N Class DD, and 261 Squadron to Aden as of Jan 11, 1942.


Whoops - we do not have 261 Squadron. Will have to add it!

[Don Bowen]

Additional changes based on today's data:


P-38s
P-38G Build rate set to 1 (was 20)
P-38G Factory at San Diego increased by 20, Also 10 Factory switched from P-38J to P-38G
P-38J: Factory reduced by 30 (from 75 to 45) to compensate
Since the P-38G Factory had been reduced from 70 to 5 by pending changes (above), the net change is:

P-38G production
from 100 (20 Build Rate plus 70 P-38G Factory plus 10 P-38F upgraded Factory)
to 46 (1 Build Rate plus 35 Factory plus 10 P-38F upgraded Factory).

P-38J production
from 225 (70 Build Rate plus 75 P-38J Factory plus 70 P-38G upgraded Factory plus 10 P-38F upgraded Factory)
to 160 (70 Build Rate plus 45 P-38J Factory plus 35 P-38G upgraded Factory plus 10 P-38F upgraded Factory).

Total P-38 Production should be:
150+ P-38F - 11 month Production run at 11/month plus 29 Aircraft in 2 squadrons at start. Also 1 per month forever.
552+ P-38G - 12 month production run at 46/month plus 1/month forever.
3840+ P-38J - 24 month production run at 160/month (through 8/45) plus 70/month forever.


Indomitable Java Ferry changes:
Indomitable (was Jan 27th) and DDs Nizam, Napier, Nestor (were Jan/Feb, 1942) changed to arrive Aden on Jan 11, 1942.
No.261 Squadron RAF added (Hurricane IIb) and changed to arrive Aden on Jan 11, 1942.
No.242 Squadron RAF arrive Aden on Jan 11, 1942 (was January 15th).
New Class created: Old British Oiler as class 1559 - a copy of Old British Tanker (class 1515) but defined as AO
Appleleaf switched from Old British Tanker to Old British Oiler and set to arrive Aden on Jan 11, 1942 (this will give the British an AO in the Indian Ocean from early 1942).

[CobraAus]

for those who have not been following the 1.5 beta changes a VERY important development
as of 1.54 beta Mike is going to create a save game applette to allow new OOB changes
(devices only at this stage) to be changed in saved games. this will stop a lot of restarts
having to happen and greatly help in testing of CHS

Cobra Aus

[CobraAus]

New Class created: Old British Oiler as class 1559 - a copy of Old British Tanker (class 1515) but defined as AO

hi Don will this change require a new icon or would would like a new icon created

Cobra Aus

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: CobraAus

New Class created: Old British Oiler as class 1559 - a copy of Old British Tanker (class 1515) but defined as AO

hi Don will this change require a new icon or would would like a new icon created

Cobra Aus

Don't think we need a new icon. I just copied the existing class, including icon, when one of the ships was mentioned during refueling of Indomitable. Quick and dirty change which I kind of like as it gives the British an oiler in the Indian Ocean in 1942.

See - you did such a good job on your icon set that you worked yourself out of a job!

[Don Bowen]

Allied Merchant Ship Losses in the Pacific and Southeast Asia
(December 7th, 1941 - March 9th, 1942)

• Vincent (6,210 tons) – Freighter
Date of loss – December 12th, 1941
Reason for loss – Sunk by shellfire and torpedo from IJN auxiliary cruisers Aikoku Maru and Hokoku Maru near Pitcairn Island.

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: Iron Duke

Hi Don,

From The Illustrious and Implacable Classes of Aircraft Carrier 1940-1969 by Neil McCart

Indomitable left Capetown on Friday 2 jan 42 remaining in the area for 24 hrs
arrived off Aden on the morning of Sunday 11 january 42
spent just over 24 hrs in Aden
arrived at Port Sudan 14 jan 42 embarked 261 sqdn pilots and Hurricanes(48)
15 jan 42 left Port Sudan for Addu Atoll arriving 21 jan 42 (refueled and restored for 21 hrs)
25 jan 42 at Cocos Is. for refueling from RFA Appleleaf
27 jan 42 at lat 11deg - 15's/long 106deg - 05's about 50 miles se of Christmas Is. and 350 miles due south of Batavia flew of the 1st 16 Hurricanes

Thanks! I'll move Indomitable, the three N Class DD, and 261 Squadron to Aden as of Jan 11, 1942.


Whoops - we do not have 261 Squadron. Will have to add it!

Don,you may add this to Iron Duke's info..
http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Ships ... table.html

[m10bob]

BTW,while that new Hurricane squadron is going to be added,I would still like to see the 4 Australian squadrons of Avro Ansons represented,that were used for ASW work in Australia.(They would certainly be welcome there!).
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-air ... -anson.htm

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

BTW,while that new Hurricane squadron is going to be added,I would still like to see the 4 Australian squadrons of Avro Ansons represented,that were used for ASW work in Australia.(They would certainly be welcome there!).
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-air ... -anson.htm

I don't know - I just can't warm up to adding an obsolete patrol plane that was relegated to the training role a few months into the war. We don't have the US Army Air Corps B-10/12 or A-28/29 and they were much more actively employed. However CHS is a team development project so if you can build a consensus (and get someone to do the icons), I guess I could go along with it. But don't even think about asking for the Battles!

[TIMJOT]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Additional changes based on today's data:


[
Indomitable Java Ferry changes:
Indomitable and DDs Nizam, Napier, Nestor changed to arrive Aden on Jan 11, 1942 (was Jan 27th).
No.261 Squadron RAF added (Hurricane IIb) and changed to arrive Aden on Jan 11, 1942 (were Jan/Feb, 1942).
No.242 Squadron RAF arrive Aden on Jan 11, 1942 (was January 15th).

Hi Don, with all due respect to Iron Duke, I think you may have been a little hasty regarding Java Ferry changes. I have several sources that indicate that it was No. 232 and 258 Squadrons that the Indomitable picked up at Aden and ferried to Java, Flying them off on January 27th & 28th via Java on their way to Palembang Sumatra. According to Shores Vol. 2 it was only after this that the Indomitable then returned to Aden and picked up Nos. 30 & 261 (Hurricane) Squadrons to be ferried to Java as well but by the time they were embarked Java had already invaded and so both squadrons were ferried to to Ceylon instead. Which would indicate that 30 and 261 squadrons did not arrive in Aden until the end of February.

Although I do not have a definite date on the actual arrival of Nos. 30 & 261 Squadons at Aden. I know for sure that it was 232 and 258 squadrons that were successfully ferried to Java on January 27th. Again this is not only backed up by Shores but many other sources I have on the subject. Check with our friends over at the NEIs Campaign site. They can confirm it.

[Iron Duke]

Hi,

Re-read my 'quoted' source and reading further says Indomitable picked up 30 and 261 sqdns from Port Sudan on 25 feb 42 (48 hurricanes) and ferried them to Ceylon.

Cause of confusion could be that aircraft and pilots were being shuffled around from one squadron to another and that it was some 261 squadron pilots were used and became either 232 or 258 sqdn.

Also checked 'Bloody Shambles' and there appears to have been two 232 sqdns one operating out of Selatar on 25 jan 42 and the 2nd 232 sqdn onbourd Indomitable onroute for Java.

The only thing i can definately state is ' I'm easily confused'

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: TIMJOT

Hi Don, with all due respect to Iron Duke, I think you may have been a little hasty regarding Java Ferry changes. I have several sources that indicate that it was No. 232 and 258 Squadrons that the Indomitable picked up at Aden and ferried to Java, Flying them off on January 27th & 28th via Java on their way to Palembang Sumatra. According to Shores Vol. 2 it was only after this that the Indomitable then returned to Aden and picked up Nos. 30 & 261 (Hurricane) Squadrons to be ferried to Java as well but by the time they were embarked Java had already invaded and so both squadrons were ferried to to Ceylon instead. Which would indicate that 30 and 261 squadrons did not arrive in Aden until the end of February.

(snipped)

Yeah, that's me - hasty!

ORIGINAL: Iron Duke
Re-read my 'quoted' source and reading further says Indomitable picked up 30 and 261 sqdns from Port Sudan on 25 feb 42 (48 hurricanes) and ferried them to Ceylon.

(snipped)

Thanks for the update Gentlemen. With the addition of 261 Squadron, all four of the squadrons are in the OOB and all currently have arrivals in the first couple of months of 1942. All that has to be done is adjust the arrivals as follows:

232 and 258 Squadron - 420111 (with Indomitable) at Aden
30 and 261 Squadron - 420225 at Aden

But these posts raise another question: how many aircraft in a RAF fighter squadron? I note that Indomitable's load of 30 and 261 squadrons is given as 48 aircraft. In the WITP OOB a RAF fighter squadron is given a maximum aircraft size of 16. I vaguely recall reading somewhere that a RAF fighter squadron consisted of 16 aircraft and eight spares. So the question:

Should the maximum size of a RAF fighter squadron be 16 aircraft or 24?

If anyone has an easy answer to that one, how about sizes for all RAF squadron types, RAAF, RNZAF, RCAF???

[bstarr]

Should the maximum size of a RAF fighter squadron be 16 aircraft or 24?

Damn my slovenliness. I have the perfect book to answer this question somewhere in this trashpile I call my writing room. I think the US squadron of 24 also refers to 24 flying plus spares, so 16 is correct for British. Perhaps set the brit squadrons at 16 maximum planes and then give them at 16 undamaged and 8 damaged. Come to think of it, you can set maximum at 16, and then give them 24 undamaged and the computer automatically places the 8 excess in reserve. Yeah, I think I'd try that last one.
bs

[bstarr]

Also . . .
The last few posts here have brought up a question that's been hounding me. What non-dutch units were involved in defending Java?

If I understand correctly there were two brit hurricane squadrons mentioned above & at least one US cat squadron from Phillipines. Were there any of the squadrons from Singapore as often happens in my games? Any land units?
bs