The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
...we'll wait Jannuary in order to start equip the first USMC Corsairs group at Lunga...if he wants to have the air superiority over these targets he will have to pay for it!

Just as a reminder: the early Corsairs have service level 3.
So if you intend to use them as CAP fighters be aware that when upgrading from Wildcats you actually reduce
your strenght in the air because its much harder to keep em flying.

They are nice offensive weapons though, as long as the target is not so far away.

Yes, i know, thanks, but the P38s have a service rating of 3 and at Karachi they were always flying...with enough aviation support they can CAP just fine...at least that's what i've found in the Karachi theatre...
It's too early and i'm too weak to go on the offensive sweep. I prefer to play an "offensive defence"...meaning advancing in fast leaps, building up bases and then defending them with my best pilots and a/c untill i'm ready for another leap...this will drain his pilots pools more than mine and, with the time passing by, will create lots of aces in my lines...and lots of crosses in his ones...

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: bbbf

I doubt the RAAF can use the British Spits - IIRC, Australia produces it's own Spitfires.

As far as i can tell they share the same pools for the first "upgrade". Once you upgrade a RAAF Kittihawk squadron to Spit Vc for example you cannot get back to british pools...but from the Kittihawk you can get to Spits VIII

RAAF and CAF for ex they both share the Hurricane XII....

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: ADB123

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy





I feared that...[:o]

Well that would be a problem...mmmmmm....so the only way is to keep a CAP there...but does my CAP fight his LRCAP?

If you put CAP at PM he'll likely sweep you into oblivion. Instead, wait for his troops to start to move and then sweep them. He will lose his fighters and you will be able to bomb his troops daily. By the time any troops get over the mountains they will be out of supply and useless.

BTW - have you captured that other dot base on PNG that is just up the coast from PM? If not, do so immediately (use paras that contain engineers) and start to build it. The long range sweeping will wear out your P-38s fast so a closer base is a plane-saver.

Thx ABD.

The dot base you mentioned is empty and in japanese hands...but i really don't see how i can supply and support it. All the bases in the other coast of NG are full of planes, among which 3 Daitais of Vals...even if i manage to build it up to lvl 1 AF he will have easy time closing it for good...

It's a bit strange however that he's not trying to land at PM...i mean...with the KB fully supporting...with all those close-by LBA bases...why he needs to march through the Owen Stanley mountains!?!? pretty weird i'd say

Hm, maybe an indication that he has other tasks in mind for KB? Then the OS Mountains are a viable alternative
and could achieve the same task without IJN support.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson II

Yes I know what happened at the start, I read your AAR because its really good, full of insights form the contributors, but more and more I swear as someone who wants to play something that has a nodding acquaintance with the history I'm going to steer well clear of this variant. Having said that I'm being blitzkrieged in a Scenario 1 game - but soem of that is me ignoring China for the first 6 months!

Roger

Scenario 2 is for sure a challenge for the allies. To be honest i don't complain much about anything but allies a/c production and flak effectiveness...i'm ok with the rest...but really it's impossible to challenge the japanese production numbers...

Now, in dec 1942, The U.S. Army does produce 65 P-40Ks, 25 P-39Ds, 20 P38Gs and that's all!!! in mid 42 it was better cause we produced 40 P-38Fs...so after one year of harsh fights it's not a surprise if my pools are costantly empty...

As you know things don't go better with USN or with RAF production numbers...

I think i only survived in India cause i got those 72 Spits VIII that proved to be something magical...but i think untill late 43 i'll be stuck in a pure defensive role speaking about the air war...

And flak is another big issue imho...every allied AA gun seems to be useless...even the 90mm doesn't compete with japanese flak...and that's plain wrong imho... Don't know what others are discovering in their games...but here the ability of the allies to defend against japanese bombers is pretty much close to zero

[Canoerebel]

Port Moresby is an important base for the Allies, so rader will adopt one of two plans:  (1) contain it and suppress it, or (2) counterinvade and seize it.
 
He may not have made up his mind yet.  He may be sending some units over the Owen Stanleys to do some scouting - perhaps even in enough strength to remain there should he decide, based upon his reconnaissance, to counterinvade.  But troops coming over the Owen Stanley's should have massive supply problems.  They shouldn't be a threat to the base and its 500 AV unless your own troops are out of supply and badly disrupted.
 
Japan will be leary of counterinvading at this late date.  Sailing a big task force around Milne Bay is a bit daunting, because that means getting close to enemy waters.  Plus, landing a big army is a major challenge for Japan this late in the game.  So, rader would have to detail the KB to provide CAP and guard against Allied combat TFs, and he would bring the kitchen sink in terms of troops.  If his "recon" reports 500 AV, he's likely to bring at least three divisions. 
 
That, in turn, would be a lengthy and large commitment, tying down his assets for weeks or months.  He may be willing to, or he may conclude that the containment policy suits him.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: ADB123




If you put CAP at PM he'll likely sweep you into oblivion. Instead, wait for his troops to start to move and then sweep them. He will lose his fighters and you will be able to bomb his troops daily. By the time any troops get over the mountains they will be out of supply and useless.

BTW - have you captured that other dot base on PNG that is just up the coast from PM? If not, do so immediately (use paras that contain engineers) and start to build it. The long range sweeping will wear out your P-38s fast so a closer base is a plane-saver.

Thx ABD.

The dot base you mentioned is empty and in japanese hands...but i really don't see how i can supply and support it. All the bases in the other coast of NG are full of planes, among which 3 Daitais of Vals...even if i manage to build it up to lvl 1 AF he will have easy time closing it for good...

It's a bit strange however that he's not trying to land at PM...i mean...with the KB fully supporting...with all those close-by LBA bases...why he needs to march through the Owen Stanley mountains!?!? pretty weird i'd say

Hm, maybe an indication that he has other tasks in mind for KB? Then the OS Mountains are a viable alternative
and could achieve the same task without IJN support.

If he wants to land anywhere else with KB in support where could he go? Suva and Pago Pago will be suicide imho. Those bases are full of troops and forts are already at their max.
Lungaville and Efate are really risky if he leaves the Solomons in my hands and, however, Lungaville has nearly 800 AVs behind 6 forts...with 140k supplies... Ndani has 500 AVs....
Lunga nearly 1500, Tulagi 340 and Tessafaronga 150....with costal artillery and lots of arty units...every one of these bases are very hard nuts to crack...even for a japan with steroids... and in less than one month i should have my 6 US carriers again operative, with 5 more CVEs in support....not something he can avoid considering in a landing operation...

I'll fight for PM. That's for sure. I have 1 american division there, and a NZ bde...i don't wanna lose those units and i don't wanna lose PM. But PM can be sacrificed if needed. When the KB will be engaged in whatever is his plan, i'll strike the Gilberts. Solomons can stand on their own i think. There's a decent air force in the SOPAC area...enough to force him to commit the KB if he wants to do anything against those islands...

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Port Moresby is an important base for the Allies, so rader will adopt one of two plans:  (1) contain it and suppress it, or (2) counterinvade and seize it.

He may not have made up his mind yet.  He may be sending some units over the Owen Stanleys to do some scouting - perhaps even in enough strength to remain there should he decide, based upon his reconnaissance, to counterinvade.  But troops coming over the Owen Stanley's should have massive supply problems.  They shouldn't be a threat to the base and its 500 AV unless your own troops are out of supply and badly disrupted.

Japan will be leary of counterinvading at this late date.  Sailing a big task force around Milne Bay is a bit daunting, because that means getting close to enemy waters.  Plus, landing a big army is a major challenge for Japan this late in the game.  So, rader would have to detail the KB to provide CAP and guard against Allied combat TFs, and he would bring the kitchen sink in terms of troops.  If his "recon" reports 500 AV, he's likely to bring at least three divisions. 

That, in turn, would be a lengthy and large commitment, tying down his assets for weeks or months.  He may be willing to, or he may conclude that the containment policy suits him.

would be a lengthy and large commitment, tying down his assets for weeks or months. He may be willing to, or he may conclude that the containment policy suits him.

I fully agree. But for sure he's concerned about PM. Those units prepping for Lunga and diverting to Buna are a clear evidence of these concerns imho. And, as i said, if he brings everything to PM, i'll invade Tarawa and Abenama with all my assets. He cannot be everywhere...

Now the goal is to make my CVs reach PH without being spotted....

[Canoerebel]

It is wise to evaluate every possibility, disregarding those that are safely unlikely, and making contingency plans for those that are possible.
 
But you may be giving rader too much credit at this point in the game.  Without doubt, he can pick and choose a place or two for a major invasion, if he is so inclined, but in all likelihood (at least in the Pacific), he's got to be thinking more defensively now than offensively.
 
He has a major army in India.  It's going to be a huge undertaking to get it back to the center of the map.  He isn't going to want to then fling it to the far right edges, only to have to retrieve them again later.
 
He's probably focusing on his MLR now more than advancing his empire further.  There might be exceptions, but they will be few.  Yes, you need to consider the possiblities, but don't let him get too far ahead of you in this phase of the game - the transition from Japan-has-the-initiative phase to the both-sides-are-powerful-and-thus-things-are-more-static phase.  The latter will eventually transition over to the Allies-have-the-initiative phase.
 
You need to devote as much thought to the Allies attacking as you do to Japan attacking at this point.

[GreyJoy]

Yes, i agree CR. However Rader's strategy is clear to me: he waits for my advance and then he strikes en masse to push me back...at Lunga he has been taking off guard and let me too much time to fortify my positions. At PM he managed to sink my fleet but couldn't avoid my landings....now i'm quite sure he wants to push me back from there... I'm shifting to the new offensive menthality but i need more means to do that. I need decent planes in decent numbers first. So i'm really looking forward to April 43...when we're gonna recieve 130 Hellcats monthly!!!! how sweet...[:D]
Till that time i will only be able to defende...offensively maybe, but always defend.

The next invasion will be Mereauke and Tarawa. Both of these operation depends on the position of the KB. I won't do the same mistake again (meaning land to a base too close to the KB....)

[GreyJoy]

The Port Moresby garrison

[pws1225]

How are the forts at PM?

[GreyJoy]

Managed to get them to level 2 before the bombing started...

[GreyJoy]

.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson II

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


At Buna 36k men are massing and they seem to be moving towards PM by land[8|]...As far as i can tell the 14th Army is moving to Buna, along with the 4th Guards Division. These two LCU are prepping for Lunga....so it could be a feint or, more simpler, Rader's plans to counterinade Lunga were changed due to my surprise assault on PM.



Yep, this is how PM fell in my game and it does seem odd. However, I should point out that when the Allied retook Buna later in the campaign the did it overland. But the Allies were probably a little better at moving supply.

If he manages to get a combat force of anything like 36K across the Owen Stanleys in any state to fight then my only conclusion is there is something very wrong with the supply system. In reality we are talking trails of one man width up amazing mountain ranges..... This would worry me. I am already worried about the endless fuel supplies in the mountains of China in a game of mine where the Jap tanks are rolling round like Guderian's forces on the open plains of france.

Roger

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Yes, i agree CR. However Rader's strategy is clear to me: he waits for my advance and then he strikes en masse to push me back...at Lunga he has been taking off guard and let me too much time to fortify my positions. At PM he managed to sink my fleet but couldn't avoid my landings....now i'm quite sure he wants to push me back from there... I'm shifting to the new offensive menthality but i need more means to do that. I need decent planes in decent numbers first. So i'm really looking forward to April 43...when we're gonna recieve 130 Hellcats monthly!!!! how sweet...[:D]
Till that time i will only be able to defende...offensively maybe, but always defend.

The next invasion will be Mereauke and Tarawa. Both of these operation depends on the position of the KB. I won't do the same mistake again (meaning land to a base too close to the KB....)

I think you are right on this one. Just "containing" PM means that sooner or later you will put it back in operation and then will have a level 9 airfield right in the middle of his business. I think he needs to take it back and soon. Lunga is important for him as well but of the two PM is the most dangerous base to leave in Allied hands. You have taken a beating but if you hold one or the other you will at least have a foothold for 1943.

[Alpha77]

Well the PM garrison isn´t the best tbh. And some of these troops seem unknown to me, guess they were pulled out from somewhere (Phillipines?). The NZ unit has quite low exp iirc. The divison there is unknown to me, but seems a standard US inf. div understrength ? The Jap will have better troops probably. And the airborne unit has no heavy weapons [:(] If these were Aussies with good exp and good leaders....(and 25 pdr. guns)


And it can be done taking PM per landway. I marched at Buna from PM over the mountains, too. Not the biggest force, but still worked.

I must also note, that supplying and bringing stuff to PM is quite difficult (if Jap still has other major bases in range and KB intact). In my first game (this was vs. AI) I was not able to do this, however I did not know of LR CAp to this time. The Jap always had Betties flying from somewhere - I believe they can reach over from Rabaul and/or Shortlands even with torpedo load (or this is an AI bonus they get?). I know that Betties can fly the way, but they should have only bombload no torpedoes on extended range !

In my 2nd game I brought in 2-3 CVs only to protect the sealanes, also used then Beaufighters on LR cap (learned how it works thanks to forum) which worked ok (vs. AI [:D]). In 42 Betties can hit almost everything bigger and slower, means fast APDs etc. would work to sneak over to PM without being reconed or attacked (also these APDs are much more difficult to hit by Betties, almost like fast DDs). If the KB intervenes in the area (and in 42 the Allies have not much planes flying from landbases that can hurt shipping at all.....), you need to bring in your carriers, too to keep PM supplied. This would be a major battle perhaps, with the Jap could maybe add Netties to the fray. So outcome questionable. But if Allies don´t bring in carrier air, keeping PM should be difficult.

Just some notes from my limited experience.

I can also say in 43 I am quite ok with the Allied AA gun performance..... ( I use older game version however)

[GreyJoy]

Alpha,

the 27th Division is a standard US division and yes, it's a bit understrenght cause a fragment still lies at Cairns (2 APs during the travel hurt each oher so badly that i had to move them back with their loaded troops).[:@]

That was the only units i could spare for that operation. The Marines are taking care of the Solomons, while the US Army along with the AUS and NZ allies are dealing with New Caledonia, Fiji and NG...I have more units ready for PM...but i simply cannot move them there...i'll ry the APDs but i've already experimented that the fast transports simply do not work in the right way....they remain there during the day and do not get back at night...pity[:o]

I agree with Roger. If he can march through the Owen Stanley in a good shape there's someting wrong in the map/supply system

[GreyJoy]

at Lunga i have 4 Coastal AA unit...and you have just seen how they did perform against Helens and Betties flying at 10k...how can that be ok?

[Mistmatz]

Check supply consumtion in PM over a few days (Tracker does that for you). Depending on the milk runs he is flying I assume you loose something between 100-300 daily. This means you have between 30 and 100 days before PM runs out of supplies. This could be ok if he is not counter invading. but it's very, very tight.

To shift this a bit in your favor I'd use the 3 big US subs (Argonaut, Nautilus and the other one with N) and do supply runs from Oz. You may also add some of the fleet subs, it's not much but another advantage is you have a sizeable wolf pack in place in case he comes by sea. And even when using as transports they still have a TT salvo or two in case of emergency.

[Alpha77]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

at Lunga i have 4 Coastal AA unit...and you have just seen how they did perform against Helens and Betties flying at 10k...how can that be ok?

Well you are playing another game version and another scenario then me - there might be differences.

And I don´t wanted to sound as a defaetist (sp?) but tried a kind of serious analysis. Don´t be discouraged by this [:D] If these units were the ones you could spare they had to be used of course - no problem here. But I have a distant feeling that waiting a bit more may be better untill you have more stuff available. But that would be perhaps to boring in a PBM.
Ít´s your game and you decide, after all only a game (even if a quite amazing one [;)]).

And afaik the fast transport function does not work properly, I tried it also. I just used the normal amphibious transport for APDs (they can load fewer stuff than, but unload faster). They should go on mission speed. You can also bring in the 3 US SSTs if run every day on mission speed as auto convoi they can transport also some supplies, not much but every bit counts....

Btw.interesting bit from NG theater: I am on the march from Hansa Bay towards Aitape. There is a swamp between Hansa and the other town (name?) north of it - the road ends at Hansa Bay. I was quite sure that supply would not flow over the road less swamps...but I pushed up supply demand in (name? Small town north of Hansa) and voila I got suddenly 7000 supply there [:D] I send in some more with small amph TFs - so this offensive can be sustained in this area. Guess I can get to Aitape per land - it takes a long time but is less hassle than landing troops. Seems sometimes supply can flow overland if there are only 2-3 bad terrain hexes between (does not work in China however, also does not work with fuel in OZ). Might be that the supply can "flow" also over the OS range (from PM to Buna) ? At least some..... they employ much pack animals there probably.