Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

[Triode]

ORIGINAL: jun5896



Project 21956 - 9000 ton New Russian destroyer - replaced sovremenny and udaloy class. It will lunched 2016





Russian Wiki page
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Э&# ... 072;_21956


http://bastion-opk.ru/21956-em/(Russian)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... -specs.htm
http://www.severnoe.com/en/news/publica ... _february/
http://www.severnoe.com/en/offers/warships/21956/ - Severnoye Design Bureau is building this ship.

Oh,well...
This is old project from 90s,Russian Navy never put money in this.
Also, "It will lunched 2016", really? From what super secret shipyard?

ORIGINAL: jun5896


And Russia build new nuclear powered destroyer 14000 ton 12 ships?









The first atomic destroyer lay in St. Petersburg in 2017

2015.02.20

Bookmark the destroyer of the new generation of the "Leader" is scheduled
for the end of 2017.

Placing on the ship Severnaya Verf in St. Petersburg is scheduled for late 2017.
Displacement of the ship is 14 thousand tons.

Strike weapons of the "Leader" on a number of information , constitute the
standard for new ships of the Russian Navy missiles "Onyx" and "Caliber".
Also, the ships will have a marine anti-aircraft missile system S-500.

Commander of the Russian Navy Admiral Viktor Chirkov told reporters
February 20 that are now going construction work on the creation of a new
generation destroyer, the first option is the version with the nuclear power plant.


Russian Wiki page
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/П&# ... 080;и

http://lenta.ru/articles/2014/04/04/lider/(Russian)
http://www.vz.ru/news/2015/2/20/730765.html(Russian)
http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150220/1 ... l(Russian)
https://engineeringrussia.wordpress.com ... pbuilding/
http://defense-update.com/20141024_russ ... PGLoV2M9wc
http://tass.ru/en/russia/755539
http://www.maritime-executive.com/artic ... -destroyer
http://sputniknews.com/politics/2015022 ... 30644.html
http://rbth.com/defence/2014/11/12/desi ... 41325.html
http://english.pravda.ru/news/russia/21 ... _leader-0/

You see, for adding something to database it will need actual technical information
(thing that journalists often forgot to add in they articles),also adding misleading
picture does not help to understand what exactly you want to add in database
As example :
under "new nuclear powered destroyer 14000 ton" you put this picture
http://img.bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/data/1 ... 073410.jpg

this pictures taken from "Morinfosystem-Agat" intro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnvjhqrTd5s
and this is proposal for improved project 22350 (so called 22350M), not "Leader" destroyer
http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment.php?item=433061

[jun5896]

I confused about project 21056 information. I checked other route, maybe Russian plan will be building new-generation destroyer design in 2016, Thanks feedback.

[SASR]

Minor Issue
LRASM is in the Database, but not in the loadouts. LRASM will be deployed on USN Super Hornets,DDGs, and CGs by 2020. USAF B-1Bs by 2018

From: aviationweek
"A long gap in U.S. activity is ending with plans to field a limited quantity of Long-Range Anti-Ship Missile (Lrasm) versions of Lockheed Martin’s Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile (Jassm) on B-1Bs in 2018 and F/A-18E/Fs in 2019."

Another question
Why was the AGM-130 taken off the F-15E? I cant find any information that suggests it was retired from service with USAF.

Thanks[:)]

[Tomcat84]

[ADDED DB pre-v436]

Not urgent at all but a loadout request for A-10C:

2 x GBU-12
2 x GBU-38
2 x AGM-65
Litening AT Pod
Optional: 2 x AIM-9

http://theaviationist.com/2015/03/03/a- ... ut-kuwait/


Thanks [:)]

[KLAB]

[ADDED DB pre-v436]

1.07 great work.
Su-34 still seems lacking all weather capability and laser guided weapons.

I would post the numerous links and photos of the in built LRMTS system just aft of the nose wheel doors and descriptions of its all weather low level capability but can't.

Given that the 34 is replacing the Su-24 it seems odd that in the current DB the Fullback its actually less effective than the Fencer.

Doesn't it have just two wet wing pylons for the 3000l tanks? Some of the load outs with a single 3000l tank would therefore be implausible.

Can we please have some KAB-500L, Kh-29L etc load outs and all weather capability for the Fullback?[&o]
Much obliged.
K

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: KLAB

1.07 great work.
Su-34 still seems lacking all weather capability and laser guided weapons.

I would post the numerous links and photos of the in built LRMTS system just aft of the nose wheel doors and descriptions of its all weather low level capability but can't.

Given that the 34 is replacing the Su-24 it seems odd that in the current DB the Fullback its actually less effective than the Fencer.

Doesn't it have just two wet wing pylons for the 3000l tanks? Some of the load outs with a single 3000l tank would therefore be implausible.

Can we please have some KAB-500L, Kh-29L etc load outs and all weather capability for the Fullback?[&o]
Much obliged.
K

Hello,

Do you happen to have any sources for the GLONASS-guided versions of KAB-500/1500? Have they entered service? If yes, when?

Thanks.

[Triode]

[ADDED DB pre-v436]

ORIGINAL: Sunburn


Do you happen to have any sources for the GLONASS-guided versions of KAB-500/1500? Have they entered service? If yes, when?

Thanks.

if you do not mind, I can answer this question)
there is only KAB-500S version GLONASS-guided bomb


and it is dead and canceled



also if you want to see GLONASS-guided weapon that Su-34 can use let me introduce you PBK-500U family



"31.07.2008 - 13:22 News Agency ARMS-TASS
Russian Air Force in 2010 will begin to receive cluster bombs PBK-500U.

State Research and Production Enterprise (SSPE) "Basalt" in his range in
the suburban Krsnoarmeyske today marks the 70th anniversary. Here deployed
large-scale exhibition of ammunition and weapons, created by the company for
the Russian Army and export.

Among the new products exhibited at the site - is planned cluster bomb PBK-500U
with self guided submunitions (SPBE) According to the General Director Vladimir
Korenkov, since 2010 is scheduled to begin delivery planning cluster bombs PBK- 500U
Air Force of Russia.

Planning to cluster bomb has a caliber of 500 kg and is analogous to the American
weapon of destruction "air - surface" JSOW (joint stand-off weapon),
launched outside of the object zone defense

Efficacy of PBK-500U an order superior to conventional bombs, told ARMS-TASS
chief designer for aircraft weapons SSPE "Basalt" Alex Tereshin.

According to him, the development of PBC-500 conducted at the company since
the late 90s. In August, is scheduled to begin combat flight tests of cluster
munitions, and in 2009 to initiate and complete state tests. In 2010, the company
expects within the state defense order to put the Air Force first batch of cluster bombs.

According Tereshin planning to cluster bomb development "Basalt" is designed to
engage the upper hemisphere of all types of military equipment. It has a modular
design and depending on hitting targets can be equipped with different combat
elements (BE), including high-explosive, concrete-rousing, anti-tank. In the
first prototype of a cluster bomb modular bay is equipped with homing submunitions (SPBE).
The cartridge is also equipped with an inertial guidance system and satellite navigation
unit(GLONASS). When changing the type of EB carried reprogramming the control system. Flight
mission thus can be installed both on the ground and on board of the carrier by the exchange
of information.

As noted Tereshin, PBK-500U can be used effectively with frontline aircraft without
entering the zone of the object air defense. In particular, the type of fighter-bomber
Su-27IB(Su-34) can carry up to 8 of these cassettes, each of which can choose their own target.

At a distance of about 10 km from the target tape is not required satellite correction.
At the maximum distance of 50 km reset a slight deviation from the flight path cassettes
because of accumulated errors in the inertial frame is aligned satellite navigation system (GLONASS).
Precision delivery cassette provided to the target of up to 10 m.

Height application PBK-500U can vary from 100 m to 10 km through the development
of feathers and a good aerodynamic qualities of cluster bomb. In this case, the
cassette can run on the line of sight to the target, and at an angle of up to +/- 30 degrees.

Homing SPBE has three channels - two thermal and radar. Penetration ensures
destruction of any of the existing domestic and foreign targets, including objects
with a combined armor."


so Su-34 can carry 8 GLONASS guided cassettes
from height 10 km PBK-500U achieve 50 km range

there is currently four type of submunition for PBK-500U

1.PBK-500U SPBE-K





8 self guided SPBE-K submunitions in one cassette

SPBE have IIR seeker and millimeter radar.

2. PBK-500U BETAB-M

10 submunition BETAB-M in one cassette

3. PBK-500U OFAB-50UD

10 submunition (35 kg each) in one cassette

4. PBK-500U monoblock
warhead from FAB-500M-62

all variant have CEP 10m
first variant is self guided munitions


So, KAB-500S just killed by PBK-500U

first contract for PBK-500U signed in 2010 and production started [:)]




also if we talk about Su-34

in database there is few wrong thing

first of all thhere is no V-005 Tail Warning Radar and no Generic FLIR

on Su-34 it is LTPS(Laser TvEO Targeting Station)"Platan" so Su-34 can use laser guided munition
http://content.foto.mail.ru/mail/sam-bl ... i-1414.jpg
http://content.foto.mail.ru/bk/rabic/_answers/i-164.jpg
in night time Su-34 use electron optical conversion and Radar synthesized image

[Dimitris]

Triode < Thanks a lot for this, we were completely unaware of the PBK-500U family. The info on the cancellation of KAB-500S is also new. Added relevant tickets on our DB stack.

We would much appreciate any further info on which of the Russian projects underway on the last 1-2 decades have actually progressed to production/service and which have been abandoned. We have an insane backlog of entries (e.g. Kh-38 family, modern Kh-25 variants, Kh-32, every single bomb listed here etc. etc.) which have not yet been entered on the DB because frankly we have no idea what happened to them. So any information would help a lot.

Thanks!

[Tomcat84]

[ADDED DB pre-v436]

More loadout options for AV-8Bs of USMC?

http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fu ... ry&id=5852

[KLAB]

Hello all,
Thanks for the extensive update ref Russian air to ground stuff.

On the GLONASS KAB-500 Tactical Missiles corporation JSC still has a web page for the KAB-500S but interestingly its a 2009 last update.

ROSTEC'S page had an article about the PBK-500 recently in relation to the 06 Feb 2014 headline:
"Machine Engineering Technologies to exhibit arms in India". The most interesting statement in the marketing blurb is

"The planned PBK-500U cluster bomb can be deployed outside the enemy's anti-aircraft defence areas at a range of around 30 kilometres away as well as from heights ranging from 100 meters to 12 kilometres. In addition, bombing is precise through the help of satellite navigation."

KEY WORD "PLANNED". I wonder if these weapons are actually in service on operational aircraft or just for sale?

On that note the recent Su-27 flights which have been photographed extensively by intercepting NATO aircraft are interesting in that they still have R-27's not R-77's? Does anyone know if the RusAF actually have any Adders outside of test institutes or are they skipping a generation and getting the next version?

Regards
K

[Triode]

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

Triode < Thanks a lot for this, we were completely unaware of the PBK-500U family. The info on the cancellation of KAB-500S is also new. Added relevant tickets on our DB stack.

We would much appreciate any further info on which of the Russian projects underway on the last 1-2 decades have actually progressed to production/service and which have been abandoned. We have an insane backlog of entries (e.g. Kh-38 family, modern Kh-25 variants, Kh-32, every single bomb listed here etc. etc.) which have not yet been entered on the DB because frankly we have no idea what happened to them. So any information would help a lot.

Thanks!

Well...

there is big report fron Akhtubinsk GLITS, in this report GLITS disclose with what programm they are working (and what munitions VVS buy )
http://aviapanorama.ru/wp-content/uploa ... /09/16.pdf in russian

from this report in 2013 they test articles:
S-8OFP
Unguided missile,new fuel allows +50% heavier warhead with same transport characteristics as S-8KOM,

article 07
this is KAB-500Kr family
http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/518/519/

article 65ML
this is Kh-38ML from KH-38 family
http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/513/537/

article D-9M2A
this is Kh-59MK2
http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/513/539/

in 2014-2015 they plan to use

articles of A2G:
65 (unspecified Kh-38 missiles), 504AP(something for Tu-160,504B is Kh-101 so 504AP is possible version of Kh-101) , PBK-500U SPBE-K(Glonass+INS guided cassette with SPBE-K), RBK-500 SPBE-K(unguided cassette with SPBE-K), K-029, K-047(new KAB-250 http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9360/529 ... 8_orig.jpg), K-08;

as you can see VVS do not buy "modern Kh-25 variants", instead they buying Kh-38 variants
keep in mind this is VVS test centre they dont test ASM and other navy weapon



also in your link to many variants , as example there is only one variant of KAB-1500Kr-F and no such things as KAB-1500Kr-Pr-E,KAB-1500S-E and KAB-1500Kr-OD-E

KTRV sell two "family" of KAB:

Kr family : KAB-500Kr, KAB-500-OD, KAB-1500Kr
http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/518/519/

LG family :KAB-1500LG-Pr, KAB-1500LG-F, KAB-1500LG-OD
http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/518/538/


UPAB-1500(article K-070),KAB-500S(article K-01S),KAB-250L(aka LGB-250,article K-045),KAB-1500TK is dead projects

[Dimitris]

Thanks!

Does the testing of PBK-500U in 2014/15 on Akhtubinsk mean the weapon has not yet entered RuAF service?

Also, does the preference for the Kh-38 mean that the various Kh-25 upgrades (Kh-25MSE, Kh-25MAE etc.) were private-venture projects which were not adopted?

Furthermore, what is happening with the various next-gen AAM projects? (RVV-MD, RVV-SD and RVV-BD)

[RoccoNZ]

[FIXED DB v437]

#2441
#2698

Hanger space is incorrect. It is currently "1 Large aircraft" - It should be 5 medium aircraft.

The hangar space has one maintenance bay (closest to the flight deck) and 4 storage bays.

Hangar Door

Flight Deck size is incorrect

It should be two medium aircraft / one large aircraft (2 NH90 or Seasprite, or 1 Chinook)

[Vici Supreme]

Hi, some additions I found reasonable to add:

- Aircraft Helipad (1x Very Large Aircraft) (to operate the Mi-26 and other of its tier)

- Structure (Forward Operating Base)

- Structure (Military Base) (all in all the same as the Forward Operating Base structure, just way bigger in size and with more damage points)

- Structure (Naval Fort) or (Naval Outpost) (1)(2)(3) (Add magazines to the structure! The chinese installment at Johnson Reef is armed with 20mm guns.)

Thanks!

Supreme

(Edit: Included the Naval Fort structure in the post as I forgot to do so.)

[Triode]

[UPDATED DB pre-v437]

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

Thanks!

Does the testing of PBK-500U in 2014/15 on Akhtubinsk mean the weapon has not yet entered RuAF service?

Also, does the preference for the Kh-38 mean that the various Kh-25 upgrades (Kh-25MSE, Kh-25MAE etc.) were private-venture projects which were not adopted?

Furthermore, what is happening with the various next-gen AAM projects? (RVV-MD, RVV-SD and RVV-BD)

1.Akhtubinsk not only test weapons, they created "Rules for use X from Y" for this weapons
so in 2010 PBK-500U enter service with Su-34 , in 2014-2015 they test PBK-500U for Su-30SM and Su-35

2.Yes, an attempt from KTRV to sell "upgraded Kh-25" to some foreign users of Kh-25,
zero success so far

3.in 2014-2015 Akhtubinsk test three AAM articles: 810,180,760

810 (RVV-BD)
Guidance system - inertial with radio correction and active radar homing in on the final trajectory.
launch range, the maximum in the PPP,
for some types of targets, km - 200
the height of the target, km - 0,015-25
overload of the target, g - 8
starting weight, kg - not more than 510
angles targeting - ± 60 °
Warhead weight, kg - 60
length, m -4.06
Diameter, m - 0.38
wingspan, m - 0.72
the scope of the rudders, m - 1.02

180 (RVV-SD)
Guidance system - inertial with radio correction and active radar homing in on the final trajectory.
launch range:
maximum km - 110
minimum, km - 0.3
the height of the target, km - 0,02-25
overload for the target, g - 12
starting weight, kg - not more than 190
Warhead weight, kg - 22.5
length, m - 3.71
Diameter, m - 0.2
wingspan, m - 0.42
the scope of the rudders, m - 0.68

760 (RVV-MD)
Short-range missiles for use in highly maneuverable air combat with passive infrared allangles homing (Dual Band IHS)
launch range:
max, km - 40
minimum, km - 0.3
the height of the target, km - 0.02-20
overload of the target, g - up to 12
angles targeting - ± 60 °
angles for homing head - ± 75 °
starting weight, kg - 106
Warhead weight, kg - 8
length, m - 2.92
Diameter, m - 0.17
wingspan, m - 0.51
the scope of the rudders, m - 0,385

from manufacturer site: http://vympelmkb.com/products/prod01/ in russian

keep in mind that article 810(RVV-BD) and R-37 is different thing, 810 for almost 100 kg lighter and shorter than R-37 to fit into PAK-FA bays , R-37 is missile for Mig-31BM

KS-172 is canceled, this missile do not fit in PAK-FA bays and VVS dont want it on external,"Novator" wait for decision about new interceptor for second attempt

[mikmykWS]

Logged up until this point. Thanks guys!

Mike

[Triode]

[UPDATED DB pre-v437]

Just to sum up what wrong with Su-34 in database

#275 - Su-34 Fullback
#3723 - Su-34 Fullback

according to official "Sukhoi" site
http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su32/lth/ in english

in database Su-34

lack of:

2.3. Laser/TV station (aka LTPS "Platan")

6. Kh-59ME missile preparation and telecommand homing equipment pod (aka APK-8/9 Command Datalink in database, so loadouts with Kh-59 variants do not need APK-9 pod,
Su-34 already have this built-in equipment)

have wrong thing:
AL-37 - should be AL-31F M1 for planes up to 2013 and AL-31F M2 for planes after 2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_AL-31 (or just AL-31F if you dont want go in minor details)

V-005 Tail Warning Radar - no such thing on Su-34

SPO-15 Beryoza [L-006] - should be SPO-29 Pastel [L-150] (from CKBA annual report 2008 http://www.ckba.net/main.php/main.php?id=116&print=1 in russian)
SPO-15 Beryoza used only on pre-serial planes:
http://s39.radikal.ru/i084/0908/b4/755eb209e7d8.jpg

on serial Su-34 it is SPO-29 Pastel:
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2839 ... kpit5s.jpg

SPS-171/172 Sorbtsiya [L-005] #275 for Su-34 from 2012 and L-175V Khibiny M [KS-418] for #3723 Su-34 from 2014 well,this is long story

starting from pre-serial planes (hull numbers 42-48) it was L-175V

so,Su-34 have L-175V"Khibiny" from the start

L-175V Khibiny M [KS-418] - well, KS-418 is DECM station "Khibiny" in container for Su-24M2 project is die after decision to change all Su-24 for Su-34,


and Khibiny-M have index L-265

"Khibiny" is modular system it consist from:
ELINT station "Proran" built-in plane

Active DECM system "Regata" with limited OECM capabilitys partially built-in, partially in containers(SAP-518) on wing end
http://nevskii-bastion.ru/kartinki/L-17 ... 009_01.JPG

Also system may optionally include OECM station "Tarantul" in external pod on central point(since there is no EW squadrons with Su-34, system exist only in Lipetsk, keep in mind that while SAP-14 is came from the programm of adaptation "Tarantul" pod to Su-30SM, so called "Khibiny-U" programm,this is different thing,"Tarantul" is heavier and more powerful,when first version of "Tarantul" came Air Force sued on KNIRTI because the central point of Su-34(3400kg) could not withstand the weight of the "Tarantul" [:)] (case À40-59893/12 http://kad.arbitr.ru/Card/e2c7b53f-3069 ... 153582af45 in russian))

But "Tarantul" pods from Lipetsk used sometimes
from article "Crews Su-24 made a bombing during the exercise on the range in Buryatia"
"In addition, during the episode exercises at the site Telemba crews fighter-bombers Su-34 using the latest electronic warfare complex "Khibiny" solve task jamming enemy. Conducting an air attack, the crews of the Su-34 will deliver interference to aircraft airborne warning and control A-50, fighter-interceptor MiG-31 and ground air defense groups. Despite this the operators A-50 AWACS will try to determine the targets and give information to pilots of the MiG-31."

http://tass.ru/sibir-news/111891 in russian

[CV60]

[NO ERROR]

Possible Minor database issue-FLAT FACE A radar (DB3000 facilities 1319, 172, 1328, 1464). The database gives a max range of 110 nm (203 km). Jane’s Radar and Electronic Warfare Systems, "P-15/P-19 series early-warning radars", 22 October 2004 gives a range of up to 135 nm (210-250 km). Global Security.org has the same range as Jane's, but gives no sources. ( http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... t-face.htm). Radartutorial.eu (http://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/karte908.en.html) gives an "instrumented range" of 108 nm. In summary, the database seems to use the lower end of the range for the FLAT FACE A that is given in several sources.

[mikmykWS]

Logged up until this point. Thanks!

Mike

[SASR]

[UPDATED DB pre-v436]

JDAM-ER for the 2017 Australian F/A-18F (#3857 in Command)

From:gizmag

"The JDAM-ER is slated for further tests this year, including flight and certification testing, followed by production and first deliveries by Boeing to the RAAF."


Thanks[:)]