Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta - 1126b updated 17 Sept 2016

[Admiral DadMan]

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

+1 "Do Not" is better.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

Mine Laying TFs and Sub Mine Laying TFs when created default to "Do Not Lay Mines". Can this be changed to default of "Lay Mines"?

No, please don't! The default of 'Do Not' is better.

Really? The number of times I've forgotten to set it have resulted in a "dry run" and no mines delivered prompted me to ask.

Help me understand why is "do not" better?

[BillBrown]

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

+1 "Do Not" is better.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

Mine Laying TFs and Sub Mine Laying TFs when created default to "Do Not Lay Mines". Can this be changed to default of "Lay Mines"?

No, please don't! The default of 'Do Not' is better.

Agree, leave it at 'Do Not'.

[FeurerKrieg]

Really? The number of times I've forgotten to set it have resulted in a "dry run" and no mines delivered prompted me to ask.

Help me understand why is "do not" better?

For me, it is because I rarely send the ML TF straight to target. So if it is set to Lay mines, they end up dropping mines in the wrong place. Plus, sometimes I'm just rebasing MLs and in that situation they will end up also laying mines at the new base when I probably didn't want them to.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Really? The number of times I've forgotten to set it have resulted in a "dry run" and no mines delivered prompted me to ask.

Help me understand why is "do not" better?

For me, it is because I rarely send the ML TF straight to target. So if it is set to Lay mines, they end up dropping mines in the wrong place. Plus, sometimes I'm just rebasing MLs and in that situation they will end up also laying mines at the new base when I probably didn't want them to.

Right! And mine pools are not infinite, they are quite restricted now. It is far more practical to require 'flipping the safety off' when you do intend to 'shoot' mines.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Really? The number of times I've forgotten to set it have resulted in a "dry run" and no mines delivered prompted me to ask.

Help me understand why is "do not" better?

For me, it is because I rarely send the ML TF straight to target. So if it is set to Lay mines, they end up dropping mines in the wrong place. Plus, sometimes I'm just rebasing MLs and in that situation they will end up also laying mines at the new base when I probably didn't want them to.

Right! And mine pools are not infinite, they are quite restricted now. It is far more practical to require 'flipping the safety off' when you do intend to 'shoot' mines.

I agree. I've accidentally laid mines before.

[Korvar]

I don't have a problem with the 'do not' option being default as I've trained myself to look for the confirmation message when ordering a TF to lay mines.

That said, I don't 100% understand why a 'do not' default is a 'must' (new player here)...

Will Minelaying TFs incorrectly lay the mines if their route happens to pass by a suitable location along the way, similar to how it's advisable to have 'do not unload' set for Amphib TFs?

Why do you rarely send Minelaying TFs directly to their target? Is it due to accidental 'along the way' misfires, or are you deliberately routing the TFs to protect them, refuel, etc.?

As for the availability of mines, I've been setting up AEs/AKEs at regional 'hub' ports where possible and dispatching Minelaying TFs from there. I reload the minelayers using the 'replenish at sea' option. Seems to work just fine as long as supplies are available, whereas if I were to use port replenishment it may only load one or two mines...

[BBfanboy]

My frustration with minelayers has been when I set them to lay mines and gave them an enemy target base, but when they run into a harmless enemy convoy of xAKs they RTB and lay the mines at their home base! The big issue of course, is the shortage of mines in the pools. Smart thing to avoid this is to send the minelayers in "Do not lay mines" mode until they are within a few hexes of the target and then turn on the lay mines order.

[Yaab]

It gets worse.

If you create an Evac TF consisting solely of minelaying ships, the TF reverts to Minelaying mission once you leave the TF screen and loads mines! I once emptied my Dutch mine pool this way while evacuating surplus minelaying ships from Java to Cocos Island.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

It gets worse.

If you create an Evac TF consisting solely of minelaying ships, the TF reverts to Minelaying mission once you leave the TF screen and loads mines! I once emptied my Dutch mine pool this way while evacuating surplus minelaying ships from Java to Cocos Island.

Set to "Do not refuel" and that setting should remain, which should stop them from loading mines.

[jcjordan]

Noticed this w/ new beta vs the Jan beta I was running - on land units the larger fragment doesn't become the parent like it used to. I've got 4th Marine invading Wotje & the larger fragment is on Wotje commanded by a generic Major while the parent is back at Suva under the command of the General

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

Mine Laying TFs and Sub Mine Laying TFs when created default to "Do Not Lay Mines". Can this be changed to default of "Lay Mines"?

From memory, the reason for this is that if you create a TF and then forget to give it instructions, it would lay the mines in the current hex/port.

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Noticed this w/ new beta vs the Jan beta I was running - on land units the larger fragment doesn't become the parent like it used to. I've got 4th Marine invading Wotje & the larger fragment is on Wotje commanded by a generic Major while the parent is back at Suva under the command of the General

Do you have a save???

[jcjordan]

I don't think I have a before & after save that would be the before under the old Beta version & after being current game under new Beta as I had played several turns under the new Beta before the unit invaded & showed the behavior. I do have my current game that shows the larger fragment still to be a stepchild fragment rather than becoming the parent.

[michaelm75au]

If the larger fragment hasn't swapped, then it should be trying each turn. There may be some other reason why it is not swapping.
Attach the current save and I'll have a look.

[jcjordan]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

If the larger fragment hasn't swapped, then it should be trying each turn. There may be some other reason why it is not swapping.
Attach the current save and I'll have a look.

attached is savegame - look for 4th Marine Div at Wotje & you'll see it's the larger fragment but has yet to become the parent though it's been this way for a couple of days now. The parent is still in Suva but I'm loading it to move it currently IIRC. I didn't see this behavior in the Jan Beta but in the just released Beta so maybe something introduced there???

[michaelm75au]

Thinking about the mining missions ..
1. Creating a ESCORT taskforce should not switch to another mission. I have found that this happens if there are no damaged ships. Propose to skip this if it is a human created TF as player created the ESCORT TF for some reason.
2. As mines are a limited device, automatically replenishment on disbanding is probably not advisable. Propose to skip mine loading on disbanding.
You can still force replenish from port to load them.

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

ORIGINAL: michaelm

If the larger fragment hasn't swapped, then it should be trying each turn. There may be some other reason why it is not swapping.
Attach the current save and I'll have a look.

attached is savegame - look for 4th Marine Div at Wotje & you'll see it's the larger fragment but has yet to become the parent though it's been this way for a couple of days now. The parent is still in Suva but I'm loading it to move it currently IIRC. I didn't see this behavior in the Jan Beta but in the just released Beta so maybe something introduced there???

I ran a turn with latest beta and the parent is now on Wotje. I know it wont swap with units on transports due to too many variables.



The save is from latest beta, so can't understand why it has not swapped.[&:]

[Yaab]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Thinking about the mining missions ..
1. Creating a ESCORT taskforce should not switch to another mission. I have found that this happens if there are no damaged ships. Propose to skip this if it is a human created TF as player created the ESCORT TF for some reason.
2. As mines are a limited device, automatically replenishment on disbanding is probably not advisable. Propose to skip mine loading on disbanding.
You can still force replenish from port to load them.

That is what exactly happened. I created an Escort Mission with Minelaying ships only. No ship was damaged. I gave the TF a destination. I left the TF screen, ran the turn, and on the next turn the TF reverted to Minelaying mission and grabbed mines.

I created several such TFs on Java and completely depopulated the Dutch mine pool.

Actually, Escort Mission seemed the best choice. How would you move surplus Minelaying ships with no mines to another destiation? Surface Combat? Support Mission?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Thinking about the mining missions ..
1. Creating a ESCORT taskforce should not switch to another mission. I have found that this happens if there are no damaged ships. Propose to skip this if it is a human created TF as player created the ESCORT TF for some reason.
2. As mines are a limited device, automatically replenishment on disbanding is probably not advisable. Propose to skip mine loading on disbanding.
You can still force replenish from port to load them.

Agree with both.

When I create an Escort TF that I intend to meet & merge with another TF the auto-switching results in extra clicks of going in and changing it back to Escort so the ship types in the other TF are allowed to merge after meeting.

[cohimbra]

Yaab, you can chose to stokpile your mines (in the intelligence -> industry/troop/resource pool screen select mine device and set stokpile = yes). After that no mines was deployed for minelayer or similar ships until you change stokpile to no. It's a bit tedious, but if you press I and then 0 (zero) you're in the right place just in one second.