OT - WWII quiz

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Neilster

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

What a small world! I too have a Masters in OR (Ga. Tech 1981). And I also had to do several iterations of the Simplex method by hand both for homework and during a test. Except, if I remember correctly, the homework problem required us to iterate until we actually go the answer. That took several pages and a while to do.

I do remember in one of my Mathematical Programming classes (I think it was Linear Programming) that the professor talked about the use of OR techniques in WW-II to help against German u-boats.

As part of my university maths/computing major (2003-2005) I did heaps of hand calculations of this type in assignments and exams. Calculators were, as far as I remember, never allowed in exams and we were not allowed to use software in assignments/projects until we had shown we were adept at hand computation first. In Australia we have an old fashioned idea that mathematicians should be accurate and have an attention span [:'(].

Cheers, Neilster

Hunh![X(] Have you progressed beyond using Roman numerals?[;)]

Actually, in 3rd year I did a subject called Topics in Advanced Mathematics. The lecturer is really interested in the history of mathematics and we had to do calculations in Roman Numerals. We're not really sure how the Romans did it but our best guess is that by practice they could recognise patterns of symbol groupings which are rearranged in a multi-step process. It's nasty and time consuming but they probably could do lots of mental short-cuts due to their familiarity with the system. It may also explain why Roman engineers had so many "rules-of-thumb" and clever mechanical calculation aids rather than relying on computation.

We also had to use the Egyptian and Russian Peasant multiplication methods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_multiplication

Cheers, Neilster

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: winky51

ORIGINAL: winky51

Ok here is one where you cant really google this.

In the Battle of the Atlantic what was England what were some the most important improvement in ASW that was not based on technology and how did it impact the overall campaign.

Ok here is one where you cant really google this.

In the Battle of the Atlantic what was England what were some the most important improvement in ASW that was not based on technology and how did it impact the overall campaign.

The Convoy system and mathematics of transport was involved.

The UK originally believed it was better for ships to travel independently than in packs to get across the Atlantic because if found only 1 would be sunk and not many. But what was found is that convoys were better. Even though you had 20 ships (for example) in a convoy spreading over lots of open sea their foot print on the ocean was very tiny compared to having 20 ships sailing individually. The range of spotting the large convoy over the single ship was close to the same due to the curvature of the earth. Then later it was proven that doubling the size of a convoy only required 1 1/2 times more ASW ships to have the same protection. Less ASW covering more ships with same effectiveness. This was all proven mathmatically. These two principles alone vastly improved the convoy protection in WW2 for the UK. Now add in all the technology and air coverage and it improves even greater. The peak destruction of convoys in 1942 was mostly USA convoys not UK. The USA didnt listen to the UK and thought they knew better employing the same bad tactics, if not worse, that the UK did early in the war. The UK had the u-boat war beat in 1941.

The mathematics used was called Operations Research, as per my answer above.

Cheers, Neilster

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: Neilster

ORIGINAL: winky51

ORIGINAL: winky51

Ok here is one where you cant really google this.

In the Battle of the Atlantic what was England what were some the most important improvement in ASW that was not based on technology and how did it impact the overall campaign.

Ok here is one where you cant really google this.

In the Battle of the Atlantic what was England what were some the most important improvement in ASW that was not based on technology and how did it impact the overall campaign.

The Convoy system and mathematics of transport was involved.

The UK originally believed it was better for ships to travel independently than in packs to get across the Atlantic because if found only 1 would be sunk and not many. But what was found is that convoys were better. Even though you had 20 ships (for example) in a convoy spreading over lots of open sea their foot print on the ocean was very tiny compared to having 20 ships sailing individually. The range of spotting the large convoy over the single ship was close to the same due to the curvature of the earth. Then later it was proven that doubling the size of a convoy only required 1 1/2 times more ASW ships to have the same protection. Less ASW covering more ships with same effectiveness. This was all proven mathmatically. These two principles alone vastly improved the convoy protection in WW2 for the UK. Now add in all the technology and air coverage and it improves even greater. The peak destruction of convoys in 1942 was mostly USA convoys not UK. The USA didnt listen to the UK and thought they knew better employing the same bad tactics, if not worse, that the UK did early in the war. The UK had the u-boat war beat in 1941.

The mathematics used was called Operations Research, as per my answer above.

Cheers, Neilster

Operations research was pre-World War II.

A convoy system (see my post # 1488 or Convoy) was not an improvement in ASW but a change from a failed strategy to one that had been proven in World War I.

I would consider breaking the German naval cipher and capture of the Enigma machine much more of an improvement in ASW.

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: Neilster

ORIGINAL: winky51





The Convoy system and mathematics of transport was involved.

The UK originally believed it was better for ships to travel independently than in packs to get across the Atlantic because if found only 1 would be sunk and not many. But what was found is that convoys were better. Even though you had 20 ships (for example) in a convoy spreading over lots of open sea their foot print on the ocean was very tiny compared to having 20 ships sailing individually. The range of spotting the large convoy over the single ship was close to the same due to the curvature of the earth. Then later it was proven that doubling the size of a convoy only required 1 1/2 times more ASW ships to have the same protection. Less ASW covering more ships with same effectiveness. This was all proven mathmatically. These two principles alone vastly improved the convoy protection in WW2 for the UK. Now add in all the technology and air coverage and it improves even greater. The peak destruction of convoys in 1942 was mostly USA convoys not UK. The USA didnt listen to the UK and thought they knew better employing the same bad tactics, if not worse, that the UK did early in the war. The UK had the u-boat war beat in 1941.

The mathematics used was called Operations Research, as per my answer above.

Cheers, Neilster

Operations research was pre-World War II.

A convoy system (see my post # 1488 or Convoy) was not an improvement in ASW but a change from a failed strategy to one that had been proven in World War I.

I would consider breaking the German naval cipher and capture of the Enigma machine much more of an improvement in ASW.

Except that is not the answer he was after. So why are you polluting my correct response?

Cheers, Neilster

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: winky51

Ok here is one where you cant really google this.

In the Battle of the Atlantic what was England what were some the most important improvement in ASW that was not based on technology and how did it impact the overall campaign.

Errors in the question:

"Britain"or “Britain’s” should be used not “England”.

Which Battle of the Atlantic? (1914–1918) or (1939–1945). I am assuming 1939–1945.

Grammar: “what were some the most important improvement” should read, “what were some of the most important improvements” or; “what was the most important improvement”. “Was” would request your opinion.

Grammar: “how did it impact the overall campaign” should read, “how did they impact the overall campaign?”. This requires your opinion.


Is this what the winky51 meant?

During the Battle of the Atlantic (1939–1945) what were some of the Britain’s most important improvements in ASW that were not based on technology and how did they impact the overall campaign?

Or

During the Battle of the Atlantic (1939–1945) what was Britain’s most important improvement in ASW that was not based on technology and how did it impact the overall campaign?

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Except that is not the answer he was after. So why are you polluting my correct response?

Cheers, Neilster

Because: The question is poorly worded and the answers (convoys and operations Research) are opinions.

Neither Operations Research (which was developed prior to WWII) nor convoys (used by the Spanish treasure fleets 1520s until 1790 and WWI) originated in WW2.

The British adopted a convoy system, initially voluntary and later compulsory for almost all merchant ships.




In my opinion they were not the most important.

Non-technological improvements would include:

Polish reconstructions of the Enigma machine and techniques for decrypting ciphers produced on it were presented as a gift by Polish Military Intelligence to their French and British allies in Warsaw on July 26, 1939, just five weeks before the outbreak of World War II (and this would not meet the 1939–1945 requirement).

Ultra – British intelligence resulting from decryption of encrypted German radio communications in World War II.

The Destroyers for Bases Agreement between the United States and the United Kingdom, September 2, 1940, transferred fifty destroyers from the United States Navy in exchange for land rights on British possessions. The destroyers became the Town class.

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: winky51

Ok here is one where you cant really google this.

In the Battle of the Atlantic what was England what were some the most important improvement in ASW that was not based on technology and how did it impact the overall campaign.

Errors in the question:

"Britain"or “Britain’s” should be used not “England”.

Which Battle of the Atlantic? (1914–1918) or (1939–1945). I am assuming 1939–1945.

Grammar: “what were some the most important improvement” should read, “what were some of the most important improvements” or; “what was the most important improvement”. “Was” would request your opinion.

Grammar: “how did it impact the overall campaign” should read, “how did they impact the overall campaign?”. This requires your opinion.


Is this what the winky51 meant?

During the Battle of the Atlantic (1939–1945) what were some of the Britain’s most important improvements in ASW that were not based on technology and how did they impact the overall campaign?

Or

During the Battle of the Atlantic (1939–1945) what was Britain’s most important improvement in ASW that was not based on technology and how did it impact the overall campaign?

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Except that is not the answer he was after. So why are you polluting my correct response?

Cheers, Neilster

Because: The question is poorly worded and the answers (convoys and operations Research) are opinions.

Neither Operations Research (which was developed prior to WWII) nor convoys (used by the Spanish treasure fleets 1520s until 1790 and WWI) originated in WW2.

The British adopted a convoy system, initially voluntary and later compulsory for almost all merchant ships.




In my opinion they were not the most important.

Non-technological improvements would include:

Polish reconstructions of the Enigma machine and techniques for decrypting ciphers produced on it were presented as a gift by Polish Military Intelligence to their French and British allies in Warsaw on July 26, 1939, just five weeks before the outbreak of World War II (and this would not meet the 1939–1945 requirement).

Ultra – British intelligence resulting from decryption of encrypted German radio communications in World War II.

The Destroyers for Bases Agreement between the United States and the United Kingdom, September 2, 1940, transferred fifty destroyers from the United States Navy in exchange for land rights on British possessions. The destroyers became the Town class.

I can't be bothered with you. Almost everything you say is absolute common [MODERATOR - inappropriate language] except you miss the point entirely. Have a nice life.

Cheers, Neilster.

[Extraneous]

SO THIS KIND OF OF LANGUAGE OS TOLERATED ON THESE BOARDS?

You asked I responded. If you didn't want a response you should not have asked for one!

GO TAKE YOUR MEDS AND COOL OFF!

[composer99]

This exhange reminds me of the frustrating discussion of what 'side' the United States was on (Commonwealth AI thread, page 12 for anyone who wants to see it in all its, ahem, 'glory').

Extraneous: maybe Nielster didn't need to be such a potty-mouth... er... potty-type ([:'(]), but he is probably feeling (and expressing) the same frustration that I will readily admit to feeling having dealt with your unneccessary (in my and apparently others' opinions) nitpicking and apparent inability to cope with colloquialism.

Instead of presuming you knew what winky51 meant, you could have simply said you thought he was unclear and asked for clarification.

And the 'clarification' regarding England/Britain and which war was being discussed were, in my estimation, a foul insult to the intelligence of winky, and perhaps everyone reading this thread. The thread is called WWII quiz. As such, it is logical that any 'quiz' question being asked is about the Second World War unless it is explicitly noted otherwise. Similarly, is there anyone - anyone? - who is knowledgeable enough about history to keep up on this thread who does not know that England and Britain are effectively the same entity? Why is that 'clarification' even required?

[BallyJ]

ORIGINAL: composer99

This exhange reminds me of the frustrating discussion of what 'side' the United States was on (Commonwealth AI thread, page 12 for anyone who wants to see it in all its, ahem, 'glory').

Extraneous: maybe Nielster didn't need to be such a potty-mouth... er... potty-type ([:'(]), but he is probably feeling (and expressing) the same frustration that I will readily admit to feeling having dealt with your unneccessary (in my and apparently others' opinions) nitpicking and apparent inability to cope with colloquialism.

Instead of presuming you knew what winky51 meant, you could have simply said you thought he was unclear and asked for clarification.

And the 'clarification' regarding England/Britain and which war was being discussed were, in my estimation, a foul insult to the intelligence of winky, and perhaps everyone reading this thread. The thread is called WWII quiz. As such, it is logical that any 'quiz' question being asked is about the Second World War unless it is explicitly noted otherwise. Similarly, is there anyone - anyone? - who is knowledgeable enough about history to keep up on this thread who does not know that England and Britain are effectively the same entity? Why is that 'clarification' even required?

Well said.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: composer99

This exhange reminds me of the frustrating discussion of what 'side' the United States was on (Commonwealth AI thread, page 12 for anyone who wants to see it in all its, ahem, 'glory').

Extraneous: maybe Nielster didn't need to be such a potty-mouth... er... potty-type ([:'(]), but he is probably feeling (and expressing) the same frustration that I will readily admit to feeling having dealt with your unneccessary (in my and apparently others' opinions) nitpicking and apparent inability to cope with colloquialism.

Instead of presuming you knew what winky51 meant, you could have simply said you thought he was unclear and asked for clarification.

And the 'clarification' regarding England/Britain and which war was being discussed were, in my estimation, a foul insult to the intelligence of winky, and perhaps everyone reading this thread. The thread is called WWII quiz. As such, it is logical that any 'quiz' question being asked is about the Second World War unless it is explicitly noted otherwise. Similarly, is there anyone - anyone? - who is knowledgeable enough about history to keep up on this thread who does not know that England and Britain are effectively the same entity? Why is that 'clarification' even required?

Because If your going to do a Q&A use the correct terms in your questions! Especially if you do not allow someone to look it up.


Show me the link that says that a convoy system and operations research were the "the most important improvement in ASW that was not based on technology" during the Battle of the Atlantic (during WWI or WWII).


Any one who knows any geography knows England (a country) is only a part of Britain.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (commonly known as the United Kingdom, the UK or Britain) is a sovereign state located off the northwestern coast of continental Europe. It is an island country, spanning an archipelago including Great Britain, the northeastern part of the island of Ireland, and many small islands. Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK with a land border, sharing it with the Republic of Ireland. Apart from this land border, the UK is surrounded by the Atlantic Ocean, the North Sea, the English Channel and the Irish Sea. The largest island, Great Britain, is linked to France by the Channel Tunnel.

The United Kingdom is a constitutional monarchy and unitary state consisting of four countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. It is governed by a parliamentary system with its seat of government in London, the capital, but with three devolved national administrations of varying powers in Belfast, Cardiff and Edinburgh, the capitals of Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland respectively. The Channel Island bailiwicks of Jersey and Guernsey, and the Isle of Man are Crown Dependencies, which means they are constitutionally tied to the British monarch but are not part of the UK. The UK has fourteen overseas territories, all remnants of the British Empire, which at its height in 1922 encompassed almost a quarter of the world's land surface, the largest empire in history. British influence can still be observed in the language, culture and legal systems of many of its former colonies.

It is an insult to Britain and the Commonwealth to infer that only the English involved in WWII, and that is exactly what you are doing.

This is the THIRD time I have repeated this "IN MY OPINION" a convoy system and operations research were NOT the most important improvements in ASW that was not based on technology.

You could have just disagreed with me and moved on, but no, you all seem to take all this personally.

The way this question is written it is open to everyone's opinions.


Would you care to move on or do we continue to beat this dead horse?

[micheljq]

Are you English Extraneous? [&:] That would explain some of your overreacting perhaps? [:(]

[composer99]

I won't speak for anyone else, but what I choose to take personally is the impression I get of being talked down to, as if I and the other participants here are (a) utterly ignorant, (b) stupid (not the same as (a)), or (c) distasteful small children.

I would have thought it was common, indeed universal knowledge, that colloquially speaking, 'England' is often used in place of 'UK & Commonwealth/Empire' when discussing the Second World War, just as 'Russia' was/is often used colloquially to refer to the Soviet Union as a whole.

I would also have thought it was common knowledge that this thread is up for fun, and as such colloquial terminology would be perfectly acceptable. There is, if I recall, a possibility that some of the trivia will eventually be published, but I am sure any necessary clarifications for questions that make the cut will be sought out.

If you want to be an over-exacting pedant about it all, feel free. Just don't expect those of us who find it both unneccessary and exceedingly annoying (epecially when it is also downright wrong, as in the friendly/side discussion) to let the dead horse lie.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Neilster
I can't be bothered with you. Almost everything you say is absolute common [MODERATOR - inappropriate language] except you miss the point entirely. Have a nice life.

Cheers, Neilster.

Neilster ? inappropriate language ? [;)] Can't believe that ! [:D]

[morgil]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Because If your going to do a Q&A use the correct terms in your questions! Especially if you do not allow someone to look it up.

I am really sorry to have to point this out to you, Erraneous, but could you please link the part of the question where it says that you are not allowed to look up the answer ?

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
Show me the link that says that a convoy system and operations research were the "the most important improvement in ASW that was not based on technology" during the Battle of the Atlantic (during WWI or WWII).
This is the THIRD time I have repeated this "IN MY OPINION" a convoy system and operations research were NOT the most important improvements in ASW that was not based on technology.

Could you, Erronous, please post a link that shows what was "the most important improvement in ASW that was not based on technology", I mean, you have said it plenty of times that this is only "YOU OPINION", and I'm afraid I cant really take you serious without you producing a link.

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
Would you care to move on or do we continue to beat this dead horse?

Now, Errorious, gagging for the last word is petty, besides, we are not discussing "a large solid-hoofed herbivorous ungulate mammal (Equus caballus, family Equidae) domesticated since prehistoric times and used as a beast of burden, a draft animal, or for riding", nor have you produced a link describing its health and why you assume that it is has passed on. For all you know it could be pining for the fjords. Or do you have a degree in Equinine Medicine ?

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
GO TAKE YOUR MEDS AND COOL OFF!

A very good call there Erromius, Placebo makes some cracking good tunes, and Meds is one of their best albums to date, specially the title track.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: morgil

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Because If your going to do a Q&A use the correct terms in your questions! Especially if you do not allow someone to look it up.

(1) I am really sorry to have to point this out to you, Erraneous, but could you please link the part of the question where it says that you are not allowed to look up the answer?

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
Show me the link that says that a convoy system and operations research were the "the most important improvement in ASW that was not based on technology" during the Battle of the Atlantic (during WWI or WWII).
This is the THIRD time I have repeated this "IN MY OPINION" a convoy system and operations research were NOT the most important improvements in ASW that was not based on technology.

(2) Could you, Erronous, please post a link that shows what was "the most important improvement in ASW that was not based on technology", I mean, you have said it plenty of times that this is only "YOU OPINION", and I'm afraid I cant really take you serious without you producing a link.

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
Would you care to move on or do we continue to beat this dead horse?

(3) Now, Errorious, gagging for the last word is petty, besides, we are not discussing "a large solid-hoofed herbivorous ungulate mammal (Equus caballus, family Equidae) domesticated since prehistoric times and used as a beast of burden, a draft animal, or for riding", nor have you produced a link describing its health and why you assume that it is has passed on. For all you know it could be pining for the fjords. Or do you have a degree in Equinine Medicine?

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
GO TAKE YOUR MEDS AND COOL OFF!

A very good call there Erromius, Placebo makes some cracking good tunes, and Meds is one of their best albums to date, specially the title track.

(1) Here is the link

(2) Your asking for me to prove a negative. As I keep repeating, “The question requires an opinion not an answer”.

(3) Ronny (morgil) I’ll be nice since you’re from Norway. Click on this link: “Beating a dead horse”.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: micheljq

Are you English Extraneous? [&:] That would explain some of your overreacting perhaps? [:(]

No.

So during WWII using "English Navy", "English Army", "English Airforce" is acceptable?

[morgil]

1. In Norway lots of ppl signed up for the SS units. When a group of these got sent to the Netherlands for guard duty they did what ?
2. What was the name of Winston Churchill's manservant / bodyguard ?
3. The British government was at one point huddled together in a London basement, writing the resignation letter to the Germans, what made them stop?
4. The most famous destroyer commander of the war was ?

[Mike Dubost]

Here's an interesting one I just found out:

What ship not named USS Kearsarge had or has that name engraved on her keel, and why?

Mike Dubost

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: morgil

1. In Norway lots of ppl signed up for the SS units. When a group of these got sent to the Netherlands for guard duty they did what ?
2. What was the name of Winston Churchill's manservant / bodyguard ?
3. The British government was at one point huddled together in a London basement, writing the resignation letter to the Germans, what made them stop?
4. The most famous destroyer commander of the war was ?

Warspite1

2. GOOD QUESTION! I'm sure it begins with S. I'll go for Soames. Not convinced - but it's definately an S.

4. Morgil, I don't want to get into pedantic territory but how do you judge that? There are three names that immediately spring to mind:

1. Robert St Vincent Sherbrooke VC - of Battle of the Barents Sea fame
2. Bernard Warburton-Lee VC - of Battle of Narvik fame
3. Frederic "Johnny" Walker - of ASW fame

I am guessing you are referring to 3.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Mike Dubost

Here's an interesting one I just found out:

What ship not named USS Kearsarge had or has that name engraved on her keel, and why?

Mike Dubost

Warspite1

My guess would be USS Hornet - only because this Essex-class carrier was originally going to be called Kearsarge but the name was changed after the first Hornet was lost in the fighting around Guadalcanal.