Naval and Defense News

[kevinkins]

USS John P. Murtha (LPD 26) arrives in San Diego.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQqT9Pc ... eb2c08d19a

[Hongjian]

A mystery missile launched from what appears to be a standard YJ-83/C-80X type container.

Noone has ever seen something like that in China's arsenal before. And noone knows what sort of missile it might be.

It has an air-intake and folding wings, which implies that it is a cruise missile - not an ASROC, as some people initially thought.
But why does it have a thinner upper stage? Maybe a rocket powered supersonic terminal stage like the YJ-18/Klub (although the Klub is a much larger and longer missile)?

[Gneckes]

Could it be some sort of long-range anti-submarine weapon?

[Hongjian]

Some speculations in the Chinese internet point to the prospect of this being the replacement for all the YJ-83. This missile is basically suppossed to be a more compact variant of the YJ-18 that can fit inside a marginally larger YJ-83 container and thus can be equipped on the majority of the PLAN's earlier surface combattants that used the YJ-8X series of AShM. Range is suppossed to be 400km, same as the YJ-18, but the warhead might have been reduced to 200kg to make it more compact.

http://mil.sohu.com/20161120/n473645087.shtml

In any case, something like this is more or less expected, since all those Type 054A, 053s, 052A/Bs 051/B/Cs, and especially those over hundred 056 corvettes and 022 FACs would have to serve on with those YJ-83s that are getting increasingly obsolete, if there wasnt a replacement missile of the same general size.

Also, if this rumor is true, it looks like the YJ-18 doesnt actually look like the 3M-54E Klub as it was widely rumored to be copied from.

[Hongjian]

Holy crap!

This... This could be the super long range air-launched quasi-ballistic anti-AWACS missile that has been discussed for years. Carrying aircraft is a J-16.

This missile looks about 5 meters long!






Some backstory;

Some days ago a "big shrimp" (a reliable leaker) has posted a cryptic Poem on a major chinese military enthusiast forum:

长剑气如虹，赳赳万古雄。
今朝初饮血，敌首落长空。
鸡塞人声沸，将军笑意浓。
神兵今已利，试问谁争锋？

http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2320103-1-1.html

It is not unusual for new developments to be leaked in the form of cryptic poems written in classical chinese. Examples are many, like the appearance of the J-20, J-31, ASAT tests etc.

Loosely translated, this poem says that a "long sword" has "tasted blood" for the first time and has "gallantly cut down the head of an enemy, which fell from the skies", which invited the "cheer of the crowd and smile of the generals".

It is speculated that with "long sword 长剑" means a long-range missile (after all, the 2000+km ranged CJ-10 LACM, now redesignated as DF-10, literally means "long sword 10" for its range), and since it "downed an enemy from the skies" it implies that it is a long range anti-air missile. But since the PL-15 was already long tested years ago, it made no sense that it only achieved its "first blood" now.

So, looking back at other major leaks from past years, there is some indication that it might be actually a seperate long range AAM project.
Research papers below specify a super long range air-to-air missile with quasi ballistic trajectory (it flies to nearspace during mid-course) and is designed to take out AWACS from stand-off range, as the graphics below show.

- Note that this missile is classified as a "reentry vehicle" and flies into space and above the radar to evade detection from the AWACS and F-22s airborne sensors. Paper discusses how the missile must have a range above 300km and a terminal speed between Mach 4-5. The missile locks onto the target upon reentry with its active radar seeker at 21km range.

- Note the black silhouette of the graph on the 3rd page. Compared to the CG model, which featues mid-body fins, the black silhouette looks like the J-16 carried missile above. Also, noting the 2nd graph, the missile looks like is delivered via fighter jet like an ASAT missile.

[Broncepulido]

Incredible news! Thanks Hongjian to keep us updated!

[Hongjian]

ORIGINAL: Broncepulido

Incredible news! Thanks Hongjian to keep us updated!

Thanks.

Some good bloggers like Huitong claim that this might be the PL-15 - But I'm totally against that notion. The PL-15 is a PL-12 successor and has similiar dimensions so that it fits inside a J-20 and J-31 main bay.

But this monster of an AAM definitely does not!

It is, depending on measurement, 5.5 to 6 meters long with a 350-400mm diameter. It can only be carried externally by any Chinese fighters.

Me thinks that its job would be the "long range fire support" embarked on non-stealthy aircraft that are following a J-20 vanguard. J-20 will continue to use PL-12/PL-15 missiles, while J-11 variants and J-16 would use the AABM to snipe support aircraft from afar.

Size comparisson, using the wheels of the Flanker:





I think the closest analogue might be the Russian KS-172 Novator.

[Gneckes]

Looks like it, yeah, minus the mid-frame wings.

[Hongjian]

EDIT:

On the other hand the size is different.

So no.

[Hongjian]

Full research paper for this new PL-XX "AABM" was found. Reposting Blitzo from China-Defense-forum:

http://xueshu.baidu.com/s?wd=paperuri%3 ... 8490559253

Looks like the early study specified mid-body wings for this missile somehow. And yes, it was compared to the KS-172.

here's the full article in pdf if anyone wants to access it (attached)

took me a while to be able to find a place that can download it, then realized my university had cnki among its databases lol


in the article, there are a few very interesting tidbits that seem to correspond with the new missile

-composite seeker of active radar and ImIR for terminal phase (I think this probably confirms that the aperture on the nose is for ImIR seeker), partly for counter stealth role(?)
-GPS/INS guidance with datalinks for midcourse phase
-mentions something called "direct force control" (直接力控制), also called "射流侧向力," which I assume to be something like reaction thrusters? Provide lateral thrust? Sounds kind of like "pif" lateral thrusters used in Aster
-emphasis of importance of joint networking/informationized warfare for this thing to work
-emphasis on use of this missile against high value targets, mentioning AEW&C mostly (including ImIR seeker to identify between high and low value targets)
-emphasis on ECCM

It doesn't explicitly talk about targeting stealth fighters, stealth bombers or carriers that I can see, but it emphasizes the need to attack high value targets. It also talks about how targets of the future will likely be high speed, and stealthy, and thus places greater requirements for missiles, and seems to imply this missile should be capable against them as well(?). It does also directly say that the missile should have high mobility/maneuvrability, as well as very fast flight controls, and of course guidance. And one of the methods for achieving that high mobility is via the aforementioned "direct force control" or what I assume to be reaction thrusters/attitude thrusters.

Using some common sense, I imagine this missile would be useful against targets that are either relatively slow moving like AEW&C or stealth bombers, and possibly fighter aircraft that are not making very extreme maneuvring, as well as of course carriers.

[Dysta]

Photo from last year. Chinese Y-8 being used as a mine dropper.

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: Hongjian

Full research paper for this new PL-XX "AABM" was found. Reposting Blitzo from China-Defense-forum:

http://xueshu.baidu.com/s?wd=paperuri%3 ... 8490559253

Looks like the early study specified mid-body wings for this missile somehow. And yes, it was compared to the KS-172.

here's the full article in pdf if anyone wants to access it (attached)

took me a while to be able to find a place that can download it, then realized my university had cnki among its databases lol


in the article, there are a few very interesting tidbits that seem to correspond with the new missile

-composite seeker of active radar and ImIR for terminal phase (I think this probably confirms that the aperture on the nose is for ImIR seeker), partly for counter stealth role(?)
-GPS/INS guidance with datalinks for midcourse phase
-mentions something called "direct force control" (直接力控制), also called "射流侧向力," which I assume to be something like reaction thrusters? Provide lateral thrust? Sounds kind of like "pif" lateral thrusters used in Aster
-emphasis of importance of joint networking/informationized warfare for this thing to work
-emphasis on use of this missile against high value targets, mentioning AEW&C mostly (including ImIR seeker to identify between high and low value targets)
-emphasis on ECCM

It doesn't explicitly talk about targeting stealth fighters, stealth bombers or carriers that I can see, but it emphasizes the need to attack high value targets. It also talks about how targets of the future will likely be high speed, and stealthy, and thus places greater requirements for missiles, and seems to imply this missile should be capable against them as well(?). It does also directly say that the missile should have high mobility/maneuvrability, as well as very fast flight controls, and of course guidance. And one of the methods for achieving that high mobility is via the aforementioned "direct force control" or what I assume to be reaction thrusters/attitude thrusters.

Using some common sense, I imagine this missile would be useful against targets that are either relatively slow moving like AEW&C or stealth bombers, and possibly fighter aircraft that are not making very extreme maneuvring, as well as of course carriers.

Ha! Its a magic missile. Any first level wizard can cast that! It says right here in the player's handbook[;)]

Lets be patient and see what data actually appears. This is very speculative.

Mike

[stilesw]

Ha! Its a magic missile. Any first level wizard can cast that! It says right here in the player's handbook

Right on!

Magic Missile:
Evocation
Level: 1
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: 120 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous
You create three glowing darts of magical force. Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target. The darts all strike simultaneously and you can direct them to hit one creature or several.
-WS

[Gneckes]

A range of 120 feet seems ridiculously low, but then again, the instant travel time and perfect accuracy would make for an excellent CIWS. [:D]

[kevinkins]

Darn .. my scenario (Disproportional Response) is now obsolete ... may be not ...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-s-40 ... ures-nato/

[jun5896]

Lockheed Retakes Korean F-16 Upgrade Contract

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/loc ... e-contract

[jtoatoktoe]

U.S.S. Zumwalt dead in the water in Panama Canal

Serious engineering casualty with sea water intrusion in both of Zumwalt’s Advanced Induction Motors and minor hit on the canal wall. Taken under tow and they will try to repair it in Panama. Unknown how long that will take.

https://news.usni.org/2016/11/22/uss-zumwalt-sidelined-panama

[Hongjian]

http://www.eastpendulum.com/la-chine-de ... gue-portee

Henri.K. about the new "magical missile" :^)
Estimated Dimensions:


He digs even deeper inside Chinese academic papers and describes a KS-172 or JDRADM (Joint Dual Role Air Dominance Missile) equivalent, powered by a dual-pulse motor, following a parabolic, quasi-ballistic trajectory of 25-30km altitude to reach up to 320km range.

[Triode]

well , not so "magic" but still missile, testing on some interesting platform [:)]

Ka-52K with Kh-35 mockup

[Gneckes]

That is one huge missile to be carried on a helicopter.

Or to put it differently: is that a missile fired by a helicopter, or a rocket-powered helicopter? [:'(]