AE Land and AI Issues [OUTDATED]

[Chad Harrison]

Cool. So you *can* save quite a few Dutch base forces after all then. There's a few that would make pretty nice forward bases atleast.

As always, thanks for the replies.

[Chad Harrison]

This is another question that was brought up years ago while development was going on (somewhere back in this thread [:D]) and Andy replied how they wanted it to be in AE, but I just wanted to check to see how this *should* be working in AE, so if something else happens I know that it is not WAD.

With regards to rebuilding a unit, what happens when a sub unit is destroyed? What about an editor sub unit?

To be more specific, let me use three specific examples:

1. MANUALLY SPLIT: I take the 41st Infantry Division and manually split it into its three regiments: /A, /B and /C. I use them for defense on three different islands. One islands falls, and regiment /C is totally destroyed. In vanilla WitP, you were now indefinately stuck with the division being stuck split into two regiments, with no way to recombine them; ie. regiment /C is lost forever and the division will never be rebuilt. But what will happen in AE? Would I be able to recombine /A and /B to get back the 41st Infantry Division (obviously, initially at 2/3 strength due to the loss of the regiment)? So then over time I would be able to bring in replacements and essentially rebuild regiment /C?

2. EDITOR SUB UNITS - WHOLE UNITS: The start of the war goes poorly and Andy's AI totally destroys both the 22nd and 27th Australian Bde's in Malaya (6639 and 6644), and the Lark Bn on Rabual (6007). But, both the Sparrow and Gull Bn's (6005 and 6006) are safe in Darwin. Would I have the option to combine the last surviving editor sub-units into the 8th Australian Div (5981)?

3. EDITOR SUB UNITS - ONE SQUAD: Pulling a vanilla WitP classic, I withdraw a single support squad via a sub from the Kendari Base Force (5927). Outside of this one squad, the rest of the base force is destroyed, along with the other editor sub-units of Makassar Base Force (5928) and Manado Base Force (5929). So the only surviving unit of the primary unit, Celebes Base Force (5926), is this one squad from one editor sub-unit. Will I be able to rebuild the *entire* primary (ie. Celebes Base Force) unit from this one squad?

I know I ask random questions, but I have been looking into what it takes to pull a mini Brave Sir Robin and how aggressive you can be with both manual and editor sub units without risking loosing the entire unit, like you would in vanilla WitP.

Thanks again for all the answers!

Chad

[Andy Mac]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes

BUT unlike stock you no longer have the squads or devices to do so.

Rebuilding an Australian Div from a Bn will leave you with no reserves and no ability to take combat losses and will cripple the upgrade programme for the CMF troops.

You can do it it is a valid choice just dont expect to take casualties in your primary formations

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes

BUT unlike stock you no longer have the squads or devices to do so.

Rebuilding an Australian Div from a Bn will leave you with no reserves and no ability to take combat losses and will cripple the upgrade programme for the CMF troops.

You can do it it is a valid choice just dont expect to take casualties in your primary formations

Thanks for the reply Andy. Obviously this is all independent of actually having the devices available. As you pointed out, rebuilding a division form one squad takes a lot of stuff [:D] But if someone wants to do so, they can.

As always, thanks for the reply.

[Andy Mac]

Its important to understand that in many cases the devices simply dont exist.

end dates on device production mean that it is very very hard to rebuild units now without knock on consequences.

its one area the Japanese have an advantage in

[Chad Harrison]

But things like aviation support, support, naval support, engineers, engineer vehicles and so on are available in huge quantities. So you can't rebuild that Dutch base force with AA, CD or infantry assets, but it can be easily and quickly rebuilt with all the support elements.

Dont get me wrong, the last thing we need is 'Dutch Aviation Support' and 'USN Aviation Support', but this is a minor loophole because those types of units are available to all.

But as you pointed out, the Japanese are not limited by this and can build unlimited quantities of nearly anything as long as the resources are available. The Allies having atleast relatively similar capabilities with the support troops is a needed balance and *should not* be changed.

[Andy Mac]

I disagree if I had been able to come up with a way to get seperate Allied support and av support devices for the Dutch to kill that behaviour i would.

As it is a lot of them cannot be evacced.

In this case the allies SHOULD be more retricted than the japaese

[Chad Harrison]

Nooooo! What have I done! Im giving him more ideas! [:D]

If it were a separate device, it would end that habit in a hurry and actually kill Brave Sir Robin entirely. But for the time being, as long as a unit has no withdraw date, is not 'locked' into a restricted command and has lots of 'universal devices' (such as support, or aviation support, or my new favorite: naval support), it is worth getting a fragment out and rebuilding. Whether the unit to be rescued is US, British, Indian or Dutch doesnt matter: I can always find a use for more aviation support [:)]

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes

After your reply, I realized that this can easily be tested in a smaller scenario. So I fired up GuadMod to try it out. From my very limited testing, I can confirm that both 2 and 3 are working as described above. However, I can not get 1 to work. As far as I know, something like this is hard coded and not scenario independent. So whatever happens in GuadMod would be represenative of Scen 1 - atleast as far as I know.

In other words, as far as I can tell, its working the same as it used to in vanilla WitP and is not WAD.

Let me be specific to what I did. As the Allies, I combined the 1st and 3rd Australian, and the 32nd US divisons at Brisbane. Now that I had full units, I divided each into its /A, /B and /C regiments. The screenshot below shows what each 'Unit Organization' window looked like:

[Chad Harrison]

To continue from above, as can be seen, the 32nd USA Div had an extra regiment not in play, so I was curious what would happen with both manual sub units and editor sub units. So I loaded the /C regiment from each division and put them all in TF 1, as can been seen.

Then I did an old vanilla WitP trick for the 3rd Australian Division: I made a /C regiment 'backup' by leaving some troops behind incase things went poorly. In vanilla WitP, this would allow me to rebuild the division if the rest of the /C regiment was destroyed. Per my questions above, this should not be needed in AE.

I then sailed the TF to Rabual and the uber-Betty's took care of them. The screenshot below shows the results to each organization.

Despite the intended design, neither the 1st Australian Div or 32nd USA Div could be recombined. I could only rebuild the 3rd Australian Division, and that was only because of my 'backup' element that became the /C regiment when the main element of the regiment was destroyed.

So, has anyone else noticed this? Is there any reason that this would happen in GuadMod and not in the Grand Campaign?

Thanks in advance.

Chad

[medicff]

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

Nooooo! What have I done! Im giving him more ideas! [:D]

If it were a separate device, it would end that habit in a hurry and actually kill Brave Sir Robin entirely. But for the time being, as long as a unit has no withdraw date, is not 'locked' into a restricted command and has lots of 'universal devices' (such as support, or aviation support, or my new favorite: naval support), it is worth getting a fragment out and rebuilding. Whether the unit to be rescued is US, British, Indian or Dutch doesnt matter: I can always find a use for more aviation support [:)]

I concur with Andy re building whole dutch base forces to get support/av/engineers however it is quite feasible to get a few crucial whole/mostly whole units out aka sir robin and still fill out those with replacements to get some extra engineer forces.

I find I don't have enough av and engineer to even fill out whats coming on the board (albeit still very early) however I have tons of naval support and the units looking for replacements pull them very slowly in small amounts 1-4 squads even though asking for 200 and 1000 available. Andy is this WAD?

[John Lansford]

I must have stepped into a conversation midway through it; every Dutch unit I've seen has been restricted and not possible to evacuate.  Which ones are unrestricted and can be moved?

Also, I have found a bug.  I managed to evacuate a significant portion of the base unit at Bataan that was not restricted down to Darwin before that base surrendered.  When it surrendered, however, the portion at Darwin did too and the unit fragment has vanished!  Did the US troops in Darwin just parole themselves as they did in the Civil War?

I've got a fragment still on a sub transport that did not surrender (now THAT would have been interesting), and it's going to unload next turn.  I'll be interested to see what happens to it.

[Andy Mac]

Chad I rechecked my factys and it is WAD /A/B/C's will not allow you to recombine I will put it on th elist to get looked at

John thats a bug do you have the before and after save please

Send to a.mcphie@btinternet.com

[witpqs]

Previously posted this in the wrong thread:

The following HQ units have "No TOE Available":

slot 153 - IX US Corps
slot 121 - III US Corps
slot 120 - Alaska Defense Cmd

[John Lansford]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Chad I rechecked my factys and it is WAD /A/B/C's will not allow you to recombine I will put it on th elist to get looked at

John thats a bug do you have the before and after save please

Send to a.mcphie@btinternet.com

Andy, I've got the automatic gamesave file from the end of that turn but the only save I've got before this is several turns prior. I don't save every turn prior to running it, unfortunately. I'll send both of those to you if it would help.

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Chad I rechecked my factys and it is WAD /A/B/C's will not allow you to recombine I will put it on th elist to get looked at

Cool, glad I could help point it out.

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Previously posted this in the wrong thread:

The following HQ units have "No TOE Available":

slot 153 - IX US Corps
slot 121 - III US Corps
slot 120 - Alaska Defense Cmd

Thanks. That's a known glitch -- to be patched, but shouldn't affect game play. (The TOE-less HQs still arrive in game with their assigned support squads)

[John Lansford]

Andy,

I've sent you the save game files before and after the surrender took place.

[Sardaukar]

I was going to ask about 5th British Div in Mombasa...but decided to check myself from books and net why it's permanently restricted. It's clear now. [8D]

[1EyedJacks]

Is there any way to do a sort of the ground units by EXP? That way I'd know which units are below the table for Japanese Army/Navy max level (55/50) of training as listed on pg 187 and set them up with a Future Objective so I can bump their EXP rating up.

TTFN,

Mike