Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part)

[michaelm75au]

I looked at Manus and there was a support TF 497 which didn't refuel when I told it to leave port.

[edit]
So there may be something to the randomness that refuel isn't always working.

The general rule from what I can see is that TFs are checked for refuel before they leave the base.
There are other conditions that also govern refuel, but I would have expected the general rule to be the backstop.

There was a bug that was fixed in the early beta that could have some bearing on this.

From 1107 list:
Viewing TF list automatically tries to refuel ships; don't do this as it affects ship ops and port refueling without player's knowledge [MEM]

Whenever the TF screen was opened, the code would go thru the list before displaying and attempt to refuel any possible TFs from port or RepTfs. IIRC, it didn't even necessarily allocate Ops to the ships.
This was fixed and the extra button added 'Refuel all on list' so that the player had some control over which TFs could be refueled.

It could be that this bug was hiding that not all TFs were being auto-refueled correctly.

[edit]
Non-transport type TFs with cargo space used (as in Support ships with supplies) are not being refueled. I think this may have always been the case but was obscured by the above bug. The check was to stop Transport TFs from refueling while loading and using up Ops points.

[BigDuke66]

A request regarding the TF list, could TFs that are idle(docked but neither loading nor unloading) be somehow highlighted?
Maybe similar to the red that is used for returning subs a color could be used to make such TFs easy to find.

[Chris21wen]

Would help if I had given you the correct information. It was 497.

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Refueling will almost always be done before a TF leaves on its mission.

Makes sense but in this instance the TF is set to 'do not unload'. I have had other instances were an empty TF has arrived in port and not refuelled, this is not much of a problem under manual control but under CS it is.

ORIGINAL: michaelm

I looked at Manus and there was a support TF 497 which didn't refuel when I told it to leave port.

[edit]
So there may be something to the randomness that refuel isn't always working.

The general rule from what I can see is that TFs are checked for refuel before they leave the base.
There are other conditions that also govern refuel, but I would have expected the general rule to be the backstop.

There was a bug that was fixed in the early beta that could have some bearing on this.

From 1107 list:
Viewing TF list automatically tries to refuel ships; don't do this as it affects ship ops and port refueling without player's knowledge [MEM]

Whenever the TF screen was opened, the code would go thru the list before displaying and attempt to refuel any possible TFs from port or RepTfs. IIRC, it didn't even necessarily allocate Ops to the ships.
This was fixed and the extra button added 'Refuel all on list' so that the player had some control over which TFs could be refueled.

It could be that this bug was hiding that not all TFs were being auto-refueled correctly.

[edit]
Non-transport type TFs with cargo space used (as in Support ships with supplies) are not being refueled. I think this may have always been the case but was obscured by the above bug. The check was to stop Transport TFs from refueling while loading and using up Ops points.

Checking for refuelling when you list TF is weird[&:]

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Non-transport type TFs with cargo space used (as in Support ships with supplies) are not being refueled. I think this may have always been the case but was obscured by the above bug. The check was to stop Transport TFs from refueling while loading and using up Ops points.

Wow. Thanks for digging into this Michael, and again for all the great support!


[&o][&o][&o]

[michaelm75au]

Makes sense but in this instance the TF is set to 'do not unload'. I have had other instances were an empty TF has arrived in port and not refueled, this is not much of a problem under manual control but under CS it is.

CS have their own conditions for refueling separate from normal TFs.

Checking for refueling when you list TF is weird

Not sure why this was done but .
If I recall, I was investigating why fuel was disappearing from one on my front-line bases which had several TFs at it, but they weren't configured to refuel.

[BigDuke66]

I guess it isn't a normal behavior when the Auto Convoy system forms TFs and simply adds escorts(KV, DD) to it even when they are NOT in the Auto Convoy pool?

Pre-Turn save attached, best example is looking at the 3 DD is Colombo and looking at them in the after turn save, you find 2 of them now in Auto Convoy TFs.

[BigDuke66]

After Turn save.


Any chance we could get an option like:"Send Convoy only with X escort", where X is the number of escorts fpr the AC system?
I really hate it when he thinks 1 PC is not enough for 2 AKLs but then sends a TK without any escort.

[CaptBeefheart]

This is something I've noticed for a while over numerous betas: I'm playing auto-sub mode and subs seem to gather in port but won't go out and play again on their own. As I recall, they used to form their own SS TFs and go out on patrol.

Is this a bug or a feature? Thanks in advance for your response, michaelm.

Cheers,
CC

[Banzan]

Did you use auto-sub from start or did you activate it later? I noticed once, that if its not active from start it will not work till they "arrive" at a harbour.

[DD696]

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

This is something I've noticed for a while over numerous betas: I'm playing auto-sub mode and subs seem to gather in port but won't go out and play again on their own. As I recall, they used to form their own SS TFs and go out on patrol.

Is this a bug or a feature? Thanks in advance for your response, michaelm.

Cheers,
CC

This has been happening in my game vs the Jap AI also. A few would be sent out, but the vast majority were lounging away the war in port. I would have to form a sub TF at the base and then set it to computer control. I use the betas, but have no saves as I have now restarted and am back doing the first turn. The Jap AI was doing the same thing and I was encountering very few subs.

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

I guess it isn't a normal behavior when the Auto Convoy system forms TFs and simply adds escorts(KV, DD) to it even when they are NOT in the Auto Convoy pool?

Pre-Turn save attached, best example is looking at the 3 DD is Colombo and looking at them in the after turn save, you find 2 of them now in Auto Convoy TFs.

Correct, the AC should only be using ships assigned to it. Will check out.

[CaptBeefheart]

I think I flipped the auto-sub switch after my campaign started. Also, once in a while I turn off auto-sub and restart, hoping that would work. It doesn't seem to, although at some point it worked since a lot of subs went out on patrol in the beginning. One theory I have is that subs that get damaged and then repaired in port get thrown off the auto.

The workaround is forming individual SS TFs and then setting to computer control. However, would rather not have to do that.

Cheers,
CC

[BigDuke66]

@michaelm
The manual mentions these weather types:
"Clear, Partly Cloudy, Overcast, Rain, Thunderstorms"
But in-game I see a lot more types, is there a difference for each of them on the gameplay or are the different names purely chrome and only those 5 general categories are used?
And do you have a complete list of weather names?

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

@michaelm
The manual mentions these weather types:
"Clear, Partly Cloudy, Overcast, Rain, Thunderstorms"
But in-game I see a lot more types, is there a difference for each of them on the gameplay or are the different names purely chrome and only those 5 general categories are used?
And do you have a complete list of weather names?

I thought you only got Rain & Thunderstorms!

At least my TF's always have clouds when my search planes try to fly.

Maybe that guy from the Hitchhikers Guide is on them......

[michaelm75au]

Each of the basic weather settings has a secondary setting 
[Clear]                   "Clear sky", "Light cloud",
[Partly cloudy]        "Partial cloud",  "Heavy cloud",
[Overcast]             "Overcast", "Light rain",
[Rain]                   "Moderate rain", "Heavy rain",
[Thunderstorm]       "Thunderstorms", "Severe storms",
"Extreme overcast"

[Hellfirejet]

Hi guys just downloaded this patch,but I can't seem to run it in full screen mode,plus maximize option don't work either from properties menu?

[michaelm75au]

You need to modify the beta shortcut on the desktop to add your required options. The default is window mode (-w).

[Hellfirejet]

Cheers that fixed it thankyou![:)]

[BigDuke66]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Each of the basic weather settings has a secondary setting 
[Clear]                   "Clear sky", "Light cloud",
[Partly cloudy]        "Partial cloud",  "Heavy cloud",
[Overcast]             "Overcast", "Light rain",
[Rain]                   "Moderate rain", "Heavy rain",
[Thunderstorm]       "Thunderstorms", "Severe storms",
"Extreme overcast"

Thanks, in that case I wonder why Rain("Moderate rain", "Heavy rain") and Thunderstorm("Thunderstorms", "Severe storms") use each a cloud graphic to show bad weather but "Extreme overcast" has it's own cloud graphic.
Is "Extreme overcast" handled differently from "Thunderstorms" & "Severe storms"?

[JWE]

You are going to need lots of cloud art. And you are going to need lots of coding.

Partly Cloudy, in the pacific region, is mostly stratocumulus (6,500+ ft) with some altocumulus (6500 to 12,000 ft). Stratocumulus is most common in ocean areas, but 50/50 over land masses with altocumulus.

Overcast, in the pacific region, is either cirrostratus (16,000+ ft) or stratocumulus (6,500+ ft). Stratocumulus is most common in ocean areas, but 50/50 over land masses with cirrostratus.

Extreme Overcast, in the pacific region, is an occluded front with lots of cumulus overlayed with stratus (surf-16,000 ft). It is a weather front phenomenon.

Rain, in the pacific region, comes from either nimbostratus (surf-10,000 ft) or cumulonimbus (surf-10,000 ft). Cumulonimbus is more common over open water areas.

Thunderstorms are an altocumulus/cumulonimbus (surf-12,000 ft) phenomenon. Highly local, but accompanied by widespread cumulonimbus overcast.

So, depending on if it’s over land or water, and depending on the operational height of your planes, there’s at least 16 different opportunities to reach or lose your objective, in varying % degrees.

Sure. That’s easy. We’ll ask Michael to get right on it. [:D]