Europe map?

[composer99]

The foot soldiers tramping through the Scottish countryside, either German or Allied, might find the distilleries to be of vital significance.

[jchastain]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: brian brian
Why are some hexsides blue and some black? Just curious.

The blue hexsides are coastal hexes. That is done so the colors blend smoothly with the all sea hexes. Otherwise there is a harsh black line between each all sea hex and coastal hex. As it is, the blue line disappears into the all sea hex and the colors just fade into each other.

I'm still not completely understanding the differences. I could understand if all hexsides that progressed to water were blue for consistency, but there is more than that going on.

Look at each of the pairs of arrows in the attached picture. In each case, they point to different hexsides of the same coastal hex - one blue, one black. In each case, these hexsides do not reach any water and the connected hex is entirely landlocked. In these instances, I am at a loss for why one would be blue and the other black.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Neilster

The bum's rush? It means short shrift. That should clear things up [:D]

Cheers, Neilster

Not quite. For the bum's rush I always think of a lyric from a song (7 beers with the wrong woman) my father learned in Europe during WW II: ... the bartender ... "grabbed me by the seat of my britches and he surely did take up the slack" ... thrown out the door.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: jchastain

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: brian brian
Why are some hexsides blue and some black? Just curious.

The blue hexsides are coastal hexes. That is done so the colors blend smoothly with the all sea hexes. Otherwise there is a harsh black line between each all sea hex and coastal hex. As it is, the blue line disappears into the all sea hex and the colors just fade into each other.

I'm still not completely understanding the differences. I could understand if all hexsides that progressed to water were blue for consistency, but there is more than that going on.

Look at each of the pairs of arrows in the attached picture. In each case, they point to different hexsides of the same coastal hex - one blue, one black. In each case, these hexsides do not reach any water and the connected hex is entirely landlocked. In these instances, I am at a loss for why one would be blue and the other black.

Hex lines are 1 pixel wide. To prevent doubling them, and to avoid doing the same line twice, only 3 hexsides are drawn for each hex: west, nw, and ne.

[coreymas]

This might sound nitpicky but.

If my understanding is correct the map place names are in English?

If so is Rumania not mis-spelt?

Should it not be Romania?

Corey

[Mziln]

ORIGINAL: coreymas

This might sound nitpicky but.

If my understanding is correct the map place names are in English?

If so is Rumania not mis-spelt?

Should it not be Romania?

Corey

Either way is correct.

Merriam-Websters online dictionary gives us...

Romania
One entry found for Romania.

Main Entry: Ro·ma·nia
Pronunciation: ru-'mA-nE-&, rO-, -ny&
Variant(s): or Ru·ma·nia /ru-/

[composer99]

Rumania was how it was commonly spelled at the time. Romania is, to my knowledge, a more contemporary spelling.
 
It's just like how WiF uses "Ceylon" for what is now called Sri Lanka.

[mlees]

I was just curious, is MWiF only going to be available (with the in game menus and tutorials) in English?
 
That's the only language I can read or speak, but I imagine that there are a lot of potential European customers for this title.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: mlees

I was just curious, is MWiF only going to be available (with the in game menus and tutorials) in English?

That's the only language I can read or speak, but I imagine that there are a lot of potential European customers for this title.

I suppose yes, but after all, WiF FE is English written too, and even French players of WiF may prefer "Rail Move" to "Mouvement par train" for example. I for one always use the English terms in the game for the WiF FE key concepts. We understand nothing if it is in French [:D]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: mlees

I was just curious, is MWiF only going to be available (with the in game menus and tutorials) in English?

That's the only language I can read or speak, but I imagine that there are a lot of potential European customers for this title.

I have gone to the trouble (as did Chris Marinacci for CWIF) of making every text string a "resource string". Theoretically, it would be possible to translate the resource strings into another language and replace a single binary file (DLL) to convert MWIF to another language. Personally I am skeptical that this would produce anything useful because of a whole lot of reasons (special characters, the length of words & phrasesfitting in the space available to them).

Regardless, this would only happen if there were an enormous demand, warranting the additional effort.

[mlees]

Ok. [:)]

My apologies for the question, if it was a distraction. (Seemed trivial after I posted it.)

Thanks for taking the time to answer me, gents.

[Neilster]

I've found the average European has far better English than most Australians [:'(]. The latter mostly speak Strine. (Say "Australian" in as lazy way as possible, speaking nasally and quickly. That's Strine!)

Cheers, Neilster

[Ian R]

Have you ever read "How to speak Strine" by Affabet Lauder?
 
[;)]

[grisouille_slith]

Hey everybody,
 
I've just have a look to the Europe Map and I have two remarks for France :
- The city of Lyon is written with an 's', in fact it's "LYON"
- I will put a non oil ressource and a factory, one hexagone west of Lyon (Forest hexagone between the rhone and the loire river). Indeed, this hexagone, is the city of Saint-Etienne which was at that time an important industrial center (tank, gun and riffle factories) and their were also lots of coal mines.
To do that I decrease one factory in Lyon and move the ressource located in the south of France).

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Have you ever read "How to speak Strine" by Affabet Lauder?

[;)]

No, but coming from Tassie, I've had a good background in it. [:D]

Cheers, Neilster

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: grisouille

Hey everybody,

I've just have a look to the Europe Map and I have two remarks for France :
- The city of Lyon is written with an 's', in fact it's "LYON"

Problem is, we try to use the English names, and in English Lyon is Lyons, as Marseille is Marseilles, København is Copenhagen, Praha is Prague, Köln is Cologne, München is Munich, Milano is Milan, Roma is Rome, Warszawa is Warsaw, Bucureþti is Bucharest, Moskva is Moscow, etc...

- I will put a non oil ressource and a factory, one hexagone west of Lyon (Forest hexagone between the rhone and the loire river). Indeed, this hexagone, is the city of Saint-Etienne which was at that time an important industrial center (tank, gun and riffle factories) and their were also lots of coal mines.
To do that I decrease one factory in Lyon and move the ressource located in the south of France).

We can't do that on the map, we are bound to use the WiF FE map as it is in the original game.

[marcuswatney]

I haven't visited the forum for several years, and it is many years since I played WiF.  I am very impressed at the mapwork done, but anxious that the project is taking such a horrific length of time to bring to market.  To the programmer, it must seem to have become a labour of love rather than a commercial proposition.  Or should that be 'a sweet addiction'?
 
I have two atlases published by Oxford University Press dated 1936 and 1942.  If anyone wants to know historical spellings, borders, etc, just ask.  The 1942 atlas is especially useful as it shows all the Balkan border changes with dates.
 
I have too many observations for a single post, so I shall do this in easily managed bites (bytes?)  I haven't had time to read every single post, so please accept my apologies if I am repeating somebody else's point, or suggesting a change that has already been made.  I am going to write this up in order of priority - i.e. things I am certain about (I have documentary evidence) down to a vague wish list prompted by a feeling of unease.  Here goes ...
 
ANGUISH:
 
Yes, I know the WiF map is sacrosanct, but surely surely surely Harry Rowland will give his approval to major anomalies being corrected?  If Cernauti can be correctly attributed to Bessarabia by his hand why not ...
 
THE GERMAN-BELGIUM BORDER:
 
The whole raison d'etre behind the Belgian fortifications of Eban Emael and Liege was that the Belgium-German border is very short: just 40 miles long.  It is an easily defended choke point, a central feature of which is the Dutch province of Limburg with the city of Maastricht at its southern tip, reaching southwards to mask Antwerp and Brussels.
 
In the First World War, the Germans felt having access to neutral Dutch ports was worth not invading the country, and they accepted this choke point and the delays it would cause.  In the Second World War, Hitler's attack on the Netherlands seems strangely capricious until you consider that it allowed him to cross to the north of Eben Emael and outflank the fortifications.
 
The hex west of Dusseldorf should be Dutch ... and yes the rail-line from Dusseldorf to Antwerp really does go through the Netherlands!  Note that Aachen is right up against the Dutch border.
 
As things stand, the historical 'reward' for attacking the Netherlands doesn't present itself to the German player.  In the game, why bother attacking the Dutch?  Making this correction doesn't alter the mechanics of an attack on Belgium PROVIDED Germany simultaneously declares war on the Netherlands, as Hitler did.
 
LUXEMBOURG:  You really cannot just ignore a significant country in a game which details such esoteria as South Dobruja and the transfer of a single hex to Lithuania!  I appreciate that for game-play reasons Luxembourg cannot be considered a minor power formally, but at least note its location (hex west of Saarbrucken) on the map, and/or rename Belgium 'Belgium-Lux'.  After all, the Luxembourg-German border is longer than the Belgium-German border.  And the Battle of the Bulge was fought largely over Luxembourg.
 
QATTARA DEPRESSION: again, I understand that play mechanics dictate the wrong shape of the Qattara Depression, but please could Harry reconsider?  The rail-line went as far west as Mersa Matruh (as correctly shown on the map) so why then did Auchileck decide to make his last stand at El Alamein and not Mersa Matruh?  The answer is that the northern edge of the Qattara Depression curves around.  Its northern face runs east-west for only 80 miles before it turns sharply southwest.  El Alamein is aligned with the eastern end of the 80 miles where the Qattara Depression is closest to the sea ... in other words where the line to be held was shortest.  Could we please have the Qattara Depression depicted correctly: it has a very distinct northeast-southwest alignment.  The very long coastal corridor shown in the game is wrong.
 
Do please pass these comments on to Harry with my fervent wish that in a game so detailed major geographical features be properly presented.
 
 

[marcuswatney]

CERTAINTIES:
 
THE NETHERLANDS:  A nation's capital is defined as its seat of government, not its largest or most famous city.  Thus the capital of Australia is Canberra not Sydney.  And the capital of the Netherlands is The Hague not Amsterdam.  If you look at the German drop-zones when they attacked the Netherlands, they put a lot of effort into capturing The Hague (and the Queen), and ignored Amsterdam.  Fortunately, correcting this error is simple, as both Amsterdam and the Hague are in the same hex.
 
BORNHOLM: Bornholm is Danish and should be SE of Malmo.  It was 'liberated' by the Russians in 1945, and there were some worries they would not give it back.  They did.
 
MEMEL: Memel was a part of Lithuania until annexed by Germany on 23 March 1939 (it had been annexed by Lithuania in 1923).  Since the game includes such features as the Sudetenland, implying a pre-war start, Memel should also be noted as able to change hands.
 
SOUTHAMPTON: Southampton is very close to Portsmouth, inland and to the north of the Isle of Wight.  Perhaps for game purposes it needs to be in its own hex separate from Portsmouth.  If so, perhaps the English coastline (and the Isle of Wight) could be shifted a bit westward?  Note that the forest hex represents the New Forest, which is actually west of Southampton.
 
ISLES OF SCILLY: missing.
 
RYBACHI PENINSULA: remove the red line NE hexside of Petsamo.  The peninsula was shared between Finland and USSR.  Is the glacier-type terrain between Petsamo and Murmansk impassable?  They did try to fight here, though not very effectively.
 
HANKO: On my atlas, English spelling is Hango (leased to USSR after Winter War).
 
VYBORG: On my British 1936/1942 map, Viipuri.
 
FINNISH BORDERLANDS:  My 1942 atlas shows the one around Lake Ladoga is far too big.  The problem is that Lake Ladoga is badly drawn: it is more rectangular than square.  Along the north cost of the lake, the Soviets annexed only a corridor varying in width between 10 and 20 miles.  All they wanted was the railway line that comes up from Leningrad, and which skirts the lake.
 
DANZIG: Danzig was not part of the Polish Corridor, being a free city under the League of Nations.  After all, the Polish Corridor was a corridor owned by Poland leading to the sea at Gdynia.
 
SLOVAKIA:  Slovakia became an 'independent' country (capital Bratislava) and a German minor ally in March 1939 as Germany invaded Bohemia-Moravia (what is now the Czech Republic): if the Sudetenland warrants a border, so too should Slovakia with Bohemia-Moravia.  The northeast hexes of Hungary (Ruthenia) were actually a part of Slovakia until autumn 1938 - at the time of Munich, Slovakia had a border with Romania.  So these hexes should be shown as negotiable, just like the Sudetenland.
 
CHERSO: southest of Pola, principal island (Cherso) was Italian.
 
AEGEAN:  Mytilene (Lesbos) is Greek.  The only Turkish island in the Aegean is Imbros (not shown, it is east of Lemnos).  The unnamed island NE of Leros is Samos and very Greek - better to remove it than suggest it is Turkish, causing our Greek friends offence.
 
SMYRNA: After capture by Turks in the twenties, renamed Izmir
 
GREECE: Patras not Patrai
 
MIDDLE EAST: In 1936/1942 Jordan's name was Transjordan, because it was over the Jordan river.  It took over the West Bank (rather reluctantly, as the Bedouin are very different from the Palestinians) only between 1948 and 1967.  The map as drawn at present suggests Jordan includes the West Bank: might be better to give that hex to Palestine.  I really don't think Lebanon's hills warrant mountain status: the mountains end in the hex north of Alexandretta.  I confirm that Tel Aviv existed in 1936: on my map it is shown as a suburb of Jaffa.
 
NORTH AFRICA: Fez is a significant Moroccan city.  There was a short rail-line south from Algiers, and a longer one south from Constantine.  The Tunisian Chott extends into Algeria.  I agree with the change of Er Rif to Spanish Morocco.  By 1936, International Settlement of Tangier had shrunk to about the size of Gibraltar.  More accurate to have it moved one hex west.  I agree that it should be considered de facto under Spanish control.  Rabat a bit too close to border with Spanish Morocco (relative to Casablanca).
 
 
 
 

[marcuswatney]

FEELINGS OF UNEASE:
 
Volga is very wide between Stalingrad and Astrakhan: warrants something more than mere river status?
 
Vilna was given to Lithuania on 10 October 1939 by the Soviet Union, as a sweetener for allowing Soviet forces in.  It is now the capital of Lithuania.  Since this happened at the time of the annexation of the Baltic States, and before the occupation of Bessarabia, an alternative border should be delineated.
 
Having sailed there, I would say the crossing arrow NE of Rhodes is a bit dubious.  Better would be Samos to Kusadasi, Chios to Smyrna (Izmir) and Kos to Bodrum.  But frankly those islands and the southwest coast of Turkey were so undeveloped I can't see using a crossing arrow militarily to be anything but a logistical nightmare.
 
I do not think Heraklion was such an important port as Suda Bay or Chania in the west.  That is why the west of the island, with its important Maleme airfield, was so important to attacker and defender in 1941.
 
I don't think there was (or is) any oil around Mosul: it's all around Kirkuk.
 
In my atlases, spelling in 1936/42 was Romania, but Rumania during WWI.
 
Northern Switzerland (Berne, Zurich and the hex between) is hilly rather than mountainous.  The French were concerned enough about the danger of the Germans outflanking the Maginot Line to the south that they kept several divisions on the Franco-Swiss border.  An invasion of Switzerland is one of history's great What-Ifs; so far as I know, only covered in GDW's France 1940 (in the 120 series).
 
I strongly support the identification of historical sites like Anzio (in a small font): it is so much easier to refer to hex by name rather than 'hex SE of...'  It's fun to compare one's own defensive lines to the historical ones.
 
 
NO BESSARABIA GAMBIT:
 
Why should USSR be stopped from taking Bessarabia on the historical date of June 1940 just because Romania becomes active early?  Hitler bullied Romania mercilessly (perhaps because Rumania joined the Allies in WWI?), giving Transylvania to Hungary in September 1940.  After all, Hitler was receiving resources from his Soviet 'ally' every week, and before Barbarossa would certainly have valued Soviet friendship more than Romanian.  Whether or not Romania was active, Hitler would have turned a blind-eye to the Soviets retaking land that was theirs in 1918.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

FEELINGS OF UNEASE:
 
Volga is very wide between Stalingrad and Astrakhan: warrants something more than mere river status?

Vilna was given to Lithuania on 10 October 1939 by the Soviet Union, as a sweetener for allowing Soviet forces in.  It is now the capital of Lithuania.  Since this happened at the time of the annexation of the Baltic States, and before the occupation of Bessarabia, an alternative border should be delineated.

Having sailed there, I would say the crossing arrow NE of Rhodes is a bit dubious.  Better would be Samos to Kusadasi, Chios to Smyrna (Izmir) and Kos to Bodrum.  But frankly those islands and the southwest coast of Turkey were so undeveloped I can't see using a crossing arrow militarily to be anything but a logistical nightmare.

I do not think Heraklion was such an important port as Suda Bay or Chania in the west.  That is why the west of the island, with its important Maleme airfield, was so important to attacker and defender in 1941.

I don't think there was (or is) any oil around Mosul: it's all around Kirkuk.

In my atlases, spelling in 1936/42 was Romania, but Rumania during WWI.

Northern Switzerland (Berne, Zurich and the hex between) is hilly rather than mountainous.  The French were concerned enough about the danger of the Germans outflanking the Maginot Line to the south that they kept several divisions on the Franco-Swiss border.  An invasion of Switzerland is one of history's great What-Ifs; so far as I know, only covered in GDW's France 1940 (in the 120 series).

I strongly support the identification of historical sites like Anzio (in a small font): it is so much easier to refer to hex by name rather than 'hex SE of...'  It's fun to compare one's own defensive lines to the historical ones.


NO BESSARABIA GAMBIT:
 
Why should USSR be stopped from taking Bessarabia on the historical date of June 1940 just because Romania becomes active early?  Hitler bullied Romania mercilessly (perhaps because Rumania joined the Allies in WWI?), giving Transylvania to Hungary in September 1940.  After all, Hitler was receiving resources from his Soviet 'ally' every week, and before Barbarossa would certainly have valued Soviet friendship more than Romanian.  Whether or not Romania was active, Hitler would have turned a blind-eye to the Soviets retaking land that was theirs in 1918.

Interesting.

But I will leave a response up to Patrice who is much more knowledgeable about the map than I.[:)]

The barrier in the way of implementing all your suggestions is the thousands of people who have played WIF FE using the European map - which has been fairly faithfully maintained by MWIF. Making changes runs the risk of alienating those players. Especially in the Lowlands.

We did a lot of work on Scandinavia and there were long and detailed discussions about the points you raised. If you haven't read through those, it might be worth your time, since (as I said) most - if not all- of your points were discussed there.