Westphalia Discord--1792 standard

[Mus]

Austria T5 is completed. I am waiting on some email and PM responses before I turn it in.

On players doing multiple turns for multiple powers. Thats fine as long as they are only caretaking type actions. Once the game gets going full swing its probably not a good idea for one player to be controlling two countries, particularly if they are involved in any wars. There are several balance and fog of war issues with that.

[Mus]

Acqui and group, if and2 needs to redo his Turn 5 file please let him resubmit. We were in negotiations for a cease fire during Turn 4 to be sent Turn 5 and apparently he already submitted his turn 5 files under the impression I was accepting.

Not sure how that happened as I sent the message within minutes of the Turn 5 file being sent, but regardless, the game shouldnt be negatively effected by a miscommunication, especially with one month turns involved.

[jhdeerslayer]

ORIGINAL: Mus

Austria T5 is completed. I am waiting on some email and PM responses before I turn it in.

On players doing multiple turns for multiple powers. Thats fine as long as they are only caretaking type actions. Once the game gets going full swing its probably not a good idea for one player to be controlling two countries, particularly if they are involved in any wars. There are several balance and fog of war issues with that.

Understand and was hoping this would work better for all versus stopping play. Unless I hear otherwise, I will let the Brit's assume my turn on 8/9 and back in action on 8/21.

[evwalt]

For replacement players, I certainly agree with Mus. Outside of caretaking, it really shouldn't be done.

Only reason I agreed in this extent was that 1) it was early in the game and 2) Turkey's interactions with other powers were planned to be quite limited.

[Mus]

Did not receive any responses in a timely fashion so I just put in my Turn 5 orders.

[evwalt]

A problem has appeared in the game. Everyone needs to be patient for a little bit while I see about the result (damn time differences [:@])

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: evwalt

A problem has appeared in the game. Everyone needs to be patient for a little bit while I see about the result (damn time differences [:@])

Can you elaborate please?

[Ironclad]

PRUSSIA:

Turn 5 sent

Thought it better to send it rather than hold it back.

[and2]

In light of the misunderstandings between Mus and I, and too ensure a good game, I suggest we all get the possiability to redo turn 4 for Aqui to combine a turn 5.

Could this be a fair resolution Mus?

[Mus]

Like I said in the PM, I thought you were talking about your turn 5 move already being sent in.

Redoing Turn 4 doesnt make any sense to me. I had already sent in my T4 files before I asked if you were interested in a cease fire. I told you it would be sent T5 as I wasnt set to receive it. You acted like you were perfectly fine with continuing the status quo ie, the siege against Luxemburg. I maneuvered against your Armies LOC in T4 under the understanding that if negotiations did not succeed you would be highly unlikely to voluntarily lift the siege of Luxemburg and evacuate.

Resending a turn before turn combination is one thing, redoing an entire turn, given the circumstances and that you knew a cease fire wasn't going to be accepted turn 4, seems like "do-overs" to me.

If the group as a whole wants to redo Turn 4 thats their decision. I'm not going to be mad about it either way, but this does seem to be a case of you claiming you believed something you knew wasnt true about T4 due to the outcome of me deciding not to go ahead with a ceasefire in T5 (which would have gone into effect during the merge for T6 ALL Files) as we were discussing.

I admit to a certain level of underhandedness in my dealings with an enemy in a game, but no reason to get mad about it in real life and accuse me of cheating. Our turn 4 moves were made without regard to the treaty from our communications (my move already in before negotiations started, your communications to me indicating you were continuing siege of Luxemburg under the belief you could capture it).

I think this is a case of the boxing/MMA rule "protect yourself at all times."

[Ironclad]

If the misunderstanding relates to someone not doing what they promised to do or changing their mind at the last minute, why does that require us to replay any moves? It would be a different matter if it was the appearance of an unexpected bug or the system not processing the orders as submitted.

Edit: I agree it would be a different issue if someone wanted to resubmit a turn not yet processed although that does have implications for what we might wish to tell each other during the "pending phase" about the details of our orders submitted.

[and2]

I really detest having to drag myself through this, but in the interest of keeping the game on track, Ill give it another go on a detailed level since my diplomatic rewrite as a misunderstanding didnt fall on fertile ground.

These are the facts as I see them in cronological order:

1. Before we were negotiating you posted on the forums that you had mailed the Austrian turn, but one can always resubmit as long as the turn hasnt been combined.
2. While we were negotiating turn 4 wasnt not resolved.
3. Aqui combined and mailed the turn 2.10 AM my time, while I was sleeping.
4. You PMed me 2:49:23 AM, my time, that you had changed your mind and now wanted to me to surrender and moreover contrary to you negotiation position Prussia was suddenly an ally after all.

Therefore the misunderstanding as far as I see it was that Mus was negotiating with t5 in mind while I was negotiating with turn 4 in mind. Therefore I suggest that we redo turn 4 and in the future Ill make sure that I know what turn my negotiating partner is talking about. Hope this clarification can get our game back on track.

[aqui]

I'm utterly against to repeat last move
aqui

[Mccoy]

I think there's a lesson here for all of us:
1)Always be sure what turn you 're negotiating on
2)Always drink a cup of black coffee when you wake up [:D]

Sweden T5 in.

[evwalt]

Ok. I am going to "pull the trigger" here to get something moving.

I think from everyone I have talked to, it looks like the consensus is that turn 4 should NOT be replayed. If that is the case, who is still in the game?

At this point, I will assume EVERYONE is still in the game UNLESS you post here you are out OR you send me a PM for me to notify everyone else that you are out.

Let's everyone remember, this is supposed to be FUN!

[Mus]

I will continue to play, although my attempt to explain the situation from my perspective and bury the hatchet with and2 doesnt appear to be going well.

One confused negotiation falls through in 200 turns of 8 player PBEM and all the sudden Im an 18th Century Hitler apparently.

First I get accused of cheating and then upon my apologizing for the misunderstanding he makes statements about my character.

[8|]

[and2]

Since the consensus is that there was no misunderstanding and that the result of turn 4 was legitimate, I accept that we are now at turn 5.

I will not lower myself into debate about Mus on this forum, Ive only tried to convey that I believe that Mus and I misunderstood each other and that I submitted my turn t4 under the impression Austria was willing to have a cease-fire, an enforced peace of about a years duration and a compensation to Austria for the loss of Flanders and Luxembourg with land in Central Europe. The reality in turn 5 is that Austria's armies have moved from Palitinate splitting into Champagne and Lorraine, a risky move in my opinion, while France is has his armies in Luxembourg. Prussia is guarding the Austrian supply chain in Palalitinate and Britian is fueling the Austrian coffer with money.

I honestly therefore have problems believing the sincerity in Austrias cease-fire talks, but will continue my participation in this game and strive to have fun aswell

[Mus]

Assuming we are continuing play who are we waiting on for next turn merge?

[evwalt]

Probably Britain.

I'll have my turn in a few hours.

[evwalt]

Britain turn 5 in