Hunting the Hibiki: Q-Ball (Allies) v Cuttlefish (Japan)

[modrow]

Q-Ball,

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Other Pilot Training: Not sure what other Allied players do, but every Allied Level bomber in the Pacific is basically on Nav Attack training, at 40%. The skills move very slowly of course. I figure we will need that at some point, so may as well get a head start for later. If we don't, B-25s won't be able to hit anything.

I have a lot of units trying to train as well. My feeling is that 40% is too conservative a setting. I am presently aiming for 60%, which usually seems to keep fatigue levels below 10 and does not seem to lead to notable op losses. It's still too slow...

Also, I don't just concentrate on naval attack, but also try to hone other useful skills, like flattening airstrips.

Hartwig

[modrow]

Canoerebel,

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Where the heck did you get Chinese to garrison Lashio? (I'm pretty sure I know, but aren't they pretty weak units?) In WitP it was easy to divert scads of Chinese units to Burma - in fact doing so offered the single greatest vector of attack against the Japs in 1942. But unless I've overlooked something I don't see any Chinese committed to SEAC and all of the Chinese units in nearby Chinese cities are weak and assigned to Chinese HQ. So, what was your secret?

There's a few Chinese units which can be reassigned. As you say, they are quite weak (and thus quite cheap) at the beginning. Question is whether the PP are spent better elsewhere on the map. Frankly, I'm unable to answer that as of yet.

Hartwig

[GB68]

ORIGINAL: hartwig.modrow

Q-Ball,

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Other Pilot Training: Not sure what other Allied players do, but every Allied Level bomber in the Pacific is basically on Nav Attack training, at 40%. The skills move very slowly of course. I figure we will need that at some point, so may as well get a head start for later. If we don't, B-25s won't be able to hit anything.

I have a lot of units trying to train as well. My feeling is that 40% is too conservative a setting. I am presently aiming for 60%, which usually seems to keep fatigue levels below 10 and does not seem to lead to notable op losses. It's still too slow...

Also, I don't just concentrate on naval attack, but also try to hone other useful skills, like flattening airstrips.

Hartwig

I agree with Hartwig on this point, you can easily go to up to 50 or 60%. Even 70% if the base way behind the fronts. I.E.-no other activity at the base, as this seems to adversely effect fatigue on the training units.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Big E is STILL a few days out of Cape Town; flooding has gotten worse. She won't founder, but the damage is quite bad, and figures to take while. I sent her planes via AK to Capetown, and they will beat her to port, as she is making 10 kts. Hindsight is 20/20, but I should have sent her to Australia.

Given the shape Big E is in, maybe the Cape Town visit should just be to stabilize her (eliminate minor flooding & minor engine damage, maybe take down systems damage a bit to get better flooding control). After that some time in the East Coast shipyard might be the ticket...

Regarding training, just watch the fatigue. Some plane/squadron combinations can do a much higher percentage than others.

[modrow]

Witpqs,

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Regarding training, just watch the fatigue. Some plane/squadron combinations can do a much higher percentage than others.

now, this is certainly most interesting. I have also observed that identical training levels do quite different things to different units, but so far I could not figure out what causes this - I guess it is not just CO's stats, or is it ? Can you provide us with some more insight ?

Thanks in advance

Hartwig

[Q-Ball]

Good debate on pilot training, I am awaiting a response. I have another PBEM as Japan, and I am much more interested in Advanced Training as Japan, because IMO they need it more.

RE: Chinese Troops, we have a HR that the 11th Route Army, and ONLY that Army, may enter Burma. Maybe we should have required a "Buy"? Not sure. I could right now if I needed to, they are super-cheap. That's all the Chinese I will send. I committed to CF to use Allied Chinese only historically, and sending a few to Burma is historical.

Combat Report, Feb 24, 1942

I'll give a quick update while I am replying....all quiet in the Pacific.

IJA bombers are visiting Palembang, I suspect this is one of the next targets, because they bombed troops. Not much I can do about it.

Another sub was sighted in the North Pacific, no doubt CF sent a wolfpack to look for my carriers.

The 41st Division is close to unloading at Noumea; I need to make sure the coast is clear before attempting to unload or move much closer; I don't want KB to annihilate the TF. I will probably split it in pieces to unload, both to make it go faster and also so it can't be destoyed all at once.

Japs are unloading at Koepang; it won't last long.

Neither will Bataan. The troops are a mess; as soon as CF marches there and attacks, it's over.

Japanese Intentions: I have no idea where Kido Butai is, or what they are up to. I am pretty sure an invasion of Java or Sumatra is imminent, but that's not brilliant insight, rather S.O.P. after taking Singapore. Plus, not much I can do with that information anyway.

Other than that, I have no intel on KB or any Phase 2 targets. This bugs me.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: hartwig.modrow

Witpqs,

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Regarding training, just watch the fatigue. Some plane/squadron combinations can do a much higher percentage than others.

now, this is certainly most interesting. I have also observed that identical training levels do quite different things to different units, but so far I could not figure out what causes this - I guess it is not just CO's stats, or is it ? Can you provide us with some more insight ?

Thanks in advance

Hartwig

I wish I could! I've got an AI game into early '44 just to get time in with the new system and learn things - no pressing hard, etc. Making sure I try things out. The following is pure speculation.

I've wondered if experience has anything to do with it? Maybe the routine that calculates fatigue uses experience as a component? I doubt the devs will tell us. Is 'devs' a derogatory term? I don't mean it that way. I digress.

In general I think I have noticed that small airframes can handle higher percentages than large airframes. For example, fighters and torpedo bombers you can get away with 50% (sometimes even 70% for at least a while), while 4-engine bombers are often less - 40% or even 30%. I say "I think" because I did not keep track of it in a scientific fashion.

I think I have not noticed that airframes with higher service ratings make a difference. Again, no scientific tracking so this is my best 'loose' understanding.

I should mention that I have no idea if supply plays a part.

[modrow]

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Is 'devs' a derogatory term? I don't mean it that way. I digress.

[:D] I like this disgression...

Other than that, thanks for sharing your bits of info...

Hartwig

[Capt. Harlock]

Other than that, I have no intel on KB or any Phase 2 targets. This bugs me.

I can't say I disagree -- nothing on the KB for this many days?? Time to give Joe Rochefort a wake-up call![;)]

[Q-Ball]

Combat Report, Feb 25, 1942

YIKES! I found KB, or I should say it revealed itself.

"Battle" of the Laysan Islands: Vals and Zeros (with an identification of Akagi's airgroups), came roaring down on a hapless TF of PC Tiger and 2 xAKs running supplies out to Midway. (See Map). Thankfully, that's a pretty minor target, and it doesn't look like I am going to pay very much for being completely surprised.

See the map below; just to the East, BB Pennsylvania had left PH for the West Coast to repair damage; she would have been easy pickins. Our CVs were pretty far out of range; I think this is why he brought KB here, to get them after that foray into the Sea of Okhotsk?[&:]

Although it didn't work out, that was a pretty slick move by Cuttlefish. I had no air search between Midway and Pearl, a situation I will have to correct by putting floatplanes at FF Shoals and Laysan. All that screwing around the "MEET" buttons with the AOs may have actually saved me. There is no doubt that I GOT LUCKY HERE![8D]

What Next?: KB might go away, or might be planning a Pearl Harbor Part II. I have placed all 120 fighters at Pearl on alert, and sortied all warships to the East; he can probably hit the harbor, but will find just transports and auxilliaries if he does. The Searchlight TF is vectoring East, I'll loiter out there a few days, and come back if the coast is clear. BB Pennsylvania is heading due east, very slowly, if CF brings KB east for a turn she is a goner; hopefully he goes away.

A great benefit to me is knowing where KB is. I am sending 41st Division to Noumea straight away, and routing some other convoys more directly, knowing I have a few days peace.


China: Japanese troops steamroll Kanshien, taking it first try at 6-1, despite my guys being dug in and 100% prepped. Lesson learned, I shouldn't try to defend something in the open. We are falling back on Kukong, which is in a forest, and hopefully can hold.

[Canoerebel]

Wow, imagine if you hadn't "found" KB or you hadn't delayed your carriers to refuel, etc. Yikes!

Cuttlefish is a clever opponent, but it would be tough to position the KB that close to Hawaii and NOT stumble across merchant ships.

He won't know how close he came.

Good job, Q-Ball. Funny how "luck" usually smiles on the careful, clever, capable player.

[ckammp]

Maybe, you can hit KB with your subs?
Either way, you dodged a BIG bullet!
Really enjoying this AAR.
Good luck, and good hunting!

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Good job, Q-Ball. Funny how "luck" usually smiles on the careful, clever, capable player.

Albert Einstein: "Serendipity favors the prepared mind."

[Q-Ball]

Dan, ckammp, Chickenboy: Thanks for the comments. I got lucky, pure and simple. I will be closing that airsearch gap BTW.

February 26, 1942

It's ON in the DEI! A large Japanese fleet of several TFs is spotted heading for either the south tip of Sumatra, or north tip of Java. Maybe both. They are not headed to Palembang apparently as I initially thought.

The attached map details dispositions and air power. I am not under the illusion at all that I can stop this invasion, or even hold it up. I'll be happy with shooting down a few Zeros and sinking a transport or two. I have been training the Dutch airforce alot, which means they have an outside chance of hitting something, but I don't have my hopes up that high.

Still, should be fun to see what happens tommorow.

[Q-Ball]

February 27, 1942

Here is an expensive lesson on "Don't Forget to set your Waypoints", courtesy of Cuttflefish and Nells, a hot new band out of Sinagpore:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Oosthaven at 46,96

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 23



Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied Ships
DE Jumna, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAP West Point, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
xAP Lancashire
xAP Wakefield, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage



Aircraft Attacking:
21 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo


West Point did go down, and Wakfield is likely a goner. Thank god they were empties anyway, they finished dropping off 2 Australian Brigades at Perth. That would have REALLY hurt! As it is, Adm. Stupid here hopefully learned a lesson on Wapypoints.

DEI Attacks:
Only a handful of aircraft sortied against all the Allied ships, due to weather; no hits, and many of my guys were shot down. Hopefully tommorow we get an actual attack.

Elsewhere:
41st Division is unloading at Noumea, and given the respite from KB, I am sending in a Tank Bn from Auckland. The first Regt. of Americal Division will unload at Suva, and another is on it's way from the USA. Pago Pago already has a pile of angry Marines, and I am putting some forces on Savaii as well.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
Here is an expensive lesson on "Don't Forget to set your Waypoints", courtesy of Cuttflefish and Nells, a hot new band out of Sinagpore...As it is, Adm. Stupid here hopefully learned a lesson on Wapypoints.

How can this be? Didn't I just compliiment you as a clever, cautious, capable player? And now you go and do THIS?!

Shame.

P.S. This comment is paid for by the Committee To Remind Canoerebel that it can be Advantageous to Read the Manual Before, During, and After a Game so that He will know to do Basic Stuff in the Game.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: hartwig.modrow

Q-Ball,

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Other Pilot Training: Not sure what other Allied players do, but every Allied Level bomber in the Pacific is basically on Nav Attack training, at 40%. The skills move very slowly of course. I figure we will need that at some point, so may as well get a head start for later. If we don't, B-25s won't be able to hit anything.

I have a lot of units trying to train as well. My feeling is that 40% is too conservative a setting. I am presently aiming for 60%, which usually seems to keep fatigue levels below 10 and does not seem to lead to notable op losses. It's still too slow...

Also, I don't just concentrate on naval attack, but also try to hone other useful skills, like flattening airstrips.

Hartwig

Interesting, I am running my training up to 80% and don't really see too much fatigue or operational losses. Sometimes morale will slip but I just rest them for a few days. However, for low exp units, I set them all to flat general training. I want to have an broader experienced pool of pilots. Once I get them to a certain level then I might specialize the training but I find that first getting them up to par on broad range is a good idea. If they have decent general training then combat seems to bring up the specialty skills pretty fast.

[Q-Ball]

Thanks Dan, like most lessons in this game, you have to learn them the hard way.

Combat Report, March 1, 1942

Cuttlefish's troops are landing on Sumatra, which should fall pretty quick. There were many air attacks off Java today; this was actually a nice shot at Japanese CVs, we didn't hit anything though. Still, for the Dutch to even have a fair shot is nice I guess.....

Morning Air attack on TF, near Oosthaven at 49,96

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 15



Allied aircraft
139WH-3 x 34
B-339D x 32
Hurricane IIb Trop x 12
L-212 x 3How many 80 A/C attacks have you seen the Dutch launch? Not too many......


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
139WH-3: 1 destroyed, 17 damaged
B-339D: 6 destroyed
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed
L-212: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVL Ryujo
CVL Shoho
DD Oyashio
CVL Zuiho



Aircraft Attacking:
9 x 139WH-3 bombing from 8000 feet
Naval Attack: 3 x 300 kg SAP Bomb
9 x 139WH-3 bombing from 8000 feet
Naval Attack: 3 x 300 kg SAP Bomb
9 x 139WH-3 bombing from 8000 feet
Naval Attack: 3 x 300 kg SAP Bomb
7 x 139WH-3 bombing from 8000 feet
Naval Attack: 3 x 300 kg SAP Bomb
2 x L-212 bombing from 8000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 50 kg GP Bomb
Over 100 bombs, no hits though.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Oosthaven at 49,96

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6



Allied aircraft
139WH-3 x 8


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
139WH-3: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Myoko
CVL Ryujo



Aircraft Attacking:
7 x 139WH-3 bombing from 8000 feet
Naval Attack: 3 x 300 kg SAP Bomb


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Oosthaven at 49,96

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 1



Allied aircraft
139WH-3 x 9
75A-7 Hawk x 12


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
139WH-3: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVL Zuiho
DD Hayashio



Aircraft Attacking:
9 x 139WH-3 bombing from 8000 feet
Naval Attack: 3 x 300 kg SAP Bomb
8 x 75A-7 Hawk sweeping at 10000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Oosthaven at 49,96

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-17D Fortress x 5


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CVL Shoho
CVL Ryujo



Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-17D Fortress bombing from 8000 feet *
Naval Attack: 4 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

Carrier support unable to supply air cover.....

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Big E is STILL a few days out of Cape Town; flooding has gotten worse. She won't founder, but the damage is quite bad, and figures to take while. I sent her planes via AK to Capetown, and they will beat her to port, as she is making 10 kts. Hindsight is 20/20, but I should have sent her to Australia.

Given the shape Big E is in, maybe the Cape Town visit should just be to stabilize her (eliminate minor flooding & minor engine damage, maybe take down systems damage a bit to get better flooding control). After that some time in the East Coast shipyard might be the ticket...

Regarding training, just watch the fatigue. Some plane/squadron combinations can do a much higher percentage than others.

Yes, first check the leader. Almost all squadrons start out commanded by a 1st Lt. or a Captain. It should be at least a major commanding a squadron. I found the same thing in WITP. An average commander of the proper rank seems to do better that a first rate junior commander. Only makes sense. I have got nothing to prove it and I have never heard of a developer confirming this but I believe it to be true.

[Q-Ball]

Good advice crsutton

Combat Report, March 2,3 1942

China: The troops that took Kanshien are now moving on Kukong; this has the look of a major offensive. It's a stack of 8 units, and probably strong enough to push me out of Kukong.

Kukong is important, because from there a march down the rail line is then in my rear at Changsha. We are moving some reinforcements to the area.

South Pacific: All is quiet, we are using the absence of KB for a burst of supply and troop convoy activity. 41st Division is almost unloaded at Noumea, along with a Tank Bn and Artillery Bn. 2 Regts. of the Americal Div. are unloading at Suva, and Savaii now has a pile of CD guns. CF can probably take any of these points if he puts alot of effort into it, the point is to make him put alot of effort into it if he comes this way.

Burma/India: The last Burma troops are about to cross into India. We are building up Akyab and Cox's Bazar, with alot of troops in the NE in case CF tries a landing at Chittagong. I am not reinforcing Ceylon however. I have moved the RN back to Mangalore, ships docked in Ceylon are vulnerable to port raid by KB.

Australia: Wont' go into alot of detail, but I have moved a Bde and a couple Bns overland to Darwin; that figures to be a tough nut. Elsewhere, I have consolidated all the Australian Militia Divisions and moved them to key coastal spots to dig in. The AIF is also arriving. We have a large fuel stockpile at Perth. I think Australia is pretty safe.

Luzon: Should fall tommorow