Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)

[mktours]

T5 d-town after recon
The MP of all the units there are very low, all the fuel has been spent after they completed the mission last turn.

[mktours]

T5 14th panzer corps after recon
indeed, all the air drop went to 14th pz corps last turn, which still got much fuel in reserve.

[mktours]

T5 luki-end of turn
with the assistance of infantry and 57pz corps, 56pz finally cut a corridor and linked up with the spearhead. the back up troops would arrive soon.

[mktours]

T5north-center end of turn
the SHC has react to the thrust by retreating in the center. but they have to take longer distance and the terrain is also hindering their march, so they would be lagging of the German maneuver unless they are via railing, which in turn would put much pressure on the rail capacity which is much needed in the south to evacuate industry.

[mktours]

T5south
all the motorized troops in the D-town area are in rest, the 14th panzer crossed the river and in position, preparing to assault stalino next turn.

[mktours]

T5 14Pz end of turn
all the Kg51 bombers has been sent to north last turn, so the south get less air supply. all of them has been assigned to 14pz
The soviet troops in this area is very thin.

[mmarquo]

I rest astounded that surrounded, cut off units suffer no logistical penalty concerning stocks of supplies on hand. They would break column and assume a defensive perimeter...this consumes fule/supplies; in this game no penalty; the stocks on hand remain...

I will post a situation shot in a day or so after MT has pondered the next move.

Marquo

[Schattensand]

I playtested that opening against myself.
The north: Up to turn 2 take Velik Luki. Why not? For me more a good start against Moskwa than to a big sweep north. From turn 3 on what you do is hasardous. Create a pochet and just to let it stay alive sacrifice 2 PAs and 1.5 HGs is sheer nonsense. Your opponent will see by turn3 what you plan and since there is a one line attack only he could concentrate fully one that attack and by turn 8 or nine you will face lev 3 forts in dense wood before you reach the last RR. and the danger to be cut of is always there. Not at all my taste.
The south: Very good. Taking Proskurov with a regiment would be more mine but essentially all units west of Proskurow are doomed. In fact you catch 2/3 of SW and 3/4 of S. Not much SHP can do against it. But not defending Kiew and the Dnepr line is anyway a nono. If SHP can make a stand than there. The SHP can so easily see what GHP plans in the south and if he defends the Dnepr it is a hard work to cross the river.
If GHP does not activate Romania he definately will link PA 1 at turn 3 and cut the south in two parts. So SHP has to guard the Dnestr with all brigades from SW he can manage to slow down XIV PC on its way to Northeast Odessa. And he has to rail out SW units and S tanks at turn2 as possible. I tried to open the Romanian RR by displacing the 2 Cav Brigades at turn 1, I've seen somebody doing it, but no chance. Still some units will find the way to RR in the south to be evacuated in turn 2. Even if you dont make it in turn 2 to Kiev or even east Dnepr that opening will cost the Sov side much more troops than a simple Romania activation turn 1 opening.
What I not like are the big pockets in your game that always break. I wont create such balagan or try to not do. And I would not neglect Pripjet.
Facit: 2 very good turns, but from turn3 on not my play.

[mktours]

Hi Marquo
in this case, the temporarily being cut off troops certainly had faith in their leadership, they knew they would be linked up with by the back up troops and they instead adopted attacking position.[:)]
I have sent you my T10 in last Saturday. please check the mail.
I would wait for your situation shot before posting my report of T6.

ORIGINAL: Marquo

I rest astounded that surrounded, cut off units suffer no logistical penalty concerning stocks of supplies on hand. They would break column and assume a defensive perimeter...this consumes fule/supplies; in this game no penalty; the stocks on hand remain...

I will post a situation shot in a day or so after MT has pondered the next move.

Marquo

[mktours]

it is not a oneline attack, you would see what it is after several turns.we are currently after German T10 now.
I didn't push all the way towards Lenningrad, rather, it was a surprise. my initial aim was Moscow.
I would make a detail explanation of my strategy and underlying reasoning at appropriate time. thanks for your comments,[:)]

ORIGINAL: Schattensand

I playtested that opening against myself.
The north: Up to turn 2 take Velik Luki. Why not? For me more a good start against Moskwa than to a big sweep north. From turn 3 on what you do is hasardous. Create a pochet and just to let it stay alive sacrifice 2 PAs and 1.5 HGs is sheer nonsense. Your opponent will see by turn3 what you plan and since there is a one line attack only he could concentrate fully one that attack and by turn 8 or nine you will face lev 3 forts in dense wood before you reach the last RR. and the danger to be cut of is always there. Not at all my taste.
The south: Very good. Taking Proskurov with a regiment would be more mine but essentially all units west of Proskurow are doomed. In fact you catch 2/3 of SW and 3/4 of S. Not much SHP can do against it. But not defending Kiew and the Dnepr line is anyway a nono. If SHP can make a stand than there. The SHP can so easily see what GHP plans in the south and if he defends the Dnepr it is a hard work to cross the river.
If GHP does not activate Romania he definately will link PA 1 at turn 3 and cut the south in two parts. So SHP has to guard the Dnestr with all brigades from SW he can manage to slow down XIV PC on its way to Northeast Odessa. And he has to rail out SW units and S tanks at turn2 as possible. I tried to open the Romanian RR by displacing the 2 Cav Brigades at turn 1, I've seen somebody doing it, but no chance. Still some units will find the way to RR in the south to be evacuated in turn 2. Even if you dont make it in turn 2 to Kiev or even east Dnepr that opening will cost the Sov side much more troops than a simple Romania activation turn 1 opening.
What I not like are the big pockets in your game that always break. I wont create such balagan or try to not do. And I would not neglect Pripjet.
Facit: 2 very good turns, but from turn3 on not my play.

[mktours]

T6 luki-after recon
The spearhead has been beat out of the city, and it seems the SHC has determine to destroy it as it could easily just rout it out.
The SHC has adopted carpet defense here, but just look at the CV of both side one can conclude that it is impossible to prevent the back up German troops to link up with the spearhead.

[mktours]

T6 center-north after recon
The Pskov army remains unmoved.

[mktours]

T6 Luki end of turn
the carpet defense has been wiped out by the back up troops, the isolated spearhead has been linked up with and a strong bridgehead has been created.
the mass troops of literally two entire army group has been massed up to this bulge. some preparing attacks has been made to clear several light wood hexes in the SE direction. the several panzer & motorize divisions resting in the rear are put under the commend of 39Pz corps and it did a HQ build up this turn.

[mktours]

T6 north end of turn

[mktours]

T6 south end of turn
The SHC has run away in the north area, so the only thing for me to do is to use the infantry to flip the hexes.
All the panzer units in the D-town region remain in rest. The mega pocket has been opened again last turn so I need to reseal it and herd a good unit which come to rescue into the pocket.
The powerful 14 pz corps easily brushed aside the checker board defense and all the 3 hexes of Stalino has been captured.

[mktours]

T6 stalino end of turn
we could see in this picture that the units in the D-town region remain unmoved and see how much MP they have after two turns of resting.

[mktours]

The LUKI break through had forced the SHC to rail a lot of troops to react, as a result, many industry in the south has been captured, here is the list of captured industry in each turn.

The captured industry
T6
Stalino
3 vehicle
14 armaments
5 heavy industry

Makeevka
3 armaments
3 heavy industry

Gorlovka
3 armaments
3 heavy industry

Gomel
2 heavy industry

Zaporozeye( locked in T6)
4 heavy industry

T2
Kiev
4 armaments
4 heavy industry

T3
Odessa
3 armaments
3 heavy industry

Kremencrug
1 armament
2 heavy industry

T4
Kirovgrad
3 heavy industry

Nikolaev
3 heavy industry

Krivoil rog
3 heavy industry

D-town
9 armament
5 heavy industry

[mktours]

I would update this AAR one turn each day to allow space for comments.

[mktours]

T7 liki after recon
the pskov army remains unmoved.
the MP of the pz & motorize units are as follows:
7th pz 20mp ( have MP reserved after reach the bridgehead last turn)
3 mot 1mp
36mot 1mp
8pz 7mp

1st Pz 34mp( mp reserved last turn)
12pz 33mp(mp reserved last turn)
20 mot 47mp (air dropped) come to the attacking position from rear last turn
14mot 47mp (air dropped) come to the attacking position from rear last turn
6th pz 39mp(air dropped)
19pz 19mp

39pz corps (did HQ build up last turn)
60mot 48mp
18mot 49mp
18pz 48mp
20pz 48mp

with the reinforcement of all the KG51 bombers, the air drop from 2 army Groups could only fill the tanks of 2 motorize divisions and half fill a pz division. I certainly didn't have magic to keep the units which fought hard in the last 2 turns to move forever.

[mktours]

T7 stalino after recon
the 14pz corps has been cut off. given they captured 20 armament in the 3 city hexes last turn, the sacrifice is well-worthwhile. the cities have plenty of supplies in stored, that is the good news for the troops there. we could see that they have fuel reserved last turn.
the units in the D-town region didn't receive any air-drop after they reach there in T4. If the air drop so powerful, why should I rest so many pz & motorized units there for 3 turns?