Ultradave(WA) vs scout1(Ger), '44 D-Day Start, Turn 33 -Jan 9th, 45

[ultradave]

Ahhh, I didn't check the email closely. Here is the email I got this time: (following those instructions doesn't work. It just tells me it's not my turn and there is no victory level shown)

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Dear Player

The following game has completed

Battle: 1944-45 Campaign (D-Day Start)
Turns: 49

This game is now complete but you can view a playback of the final turn by running Gary Grigsby's War in the West and clicking Multiplayer. Select this game from the list of current games and click Play.

Don't forget you can post any technical questions, battle reports or comments on the game over at the Slitherine forums - www.slitherine.com/forum

Regards,

The Slitherine Team


You are receiving this mail because you are subscribed to the Play By E-Mail (PBEM) game system from Slitherine software. If you no longer wish to receive these mails you can turn them off by in the settings of your Slitherine Account. Go to www.slitherine.com and login using your username and password. Once logged in select Edit Information and then toggle the "Receive PBEM Notifications" box. To turn them on again repeat these steps.

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[ultradave]

Guess I'm glad I took all those screen images

[loki100]

thanks for a fascinating AAR. Interesting to see the 1944 campaign since the norm is to play from 1943. The rather different end game might indicate just how much most axis players use that extra year to 'improve' on the German deployment and degree of preparation.

[ultradave]

Lessons learned:

First the good:

1. Had a plan and pretty much stuck to it.
2. The massive invasion of Holland seemed to completely break the German resistance in the north once I broke out of the beach head. I went big hoping for just that. 2 Corps ashore on the beaches, and airborne drop by 5 airborne divisions and a follow on drop by one more to take Arnhem during the breakout. Overall invaded Holland with 2 entire armies once they were all ashore. Way too much strength to effectively counter.
3. I did a pretty effective job with using tactical air - ground attack, superiority and support. I kept the German front and the area behind the front under continuous attack from the invasion on.
4. Manual naval patrols to cover the Channel and the southern North Sea to protect my supply lines seemed to be effective.

The bad:

1. I need to pay more attention to strategic bombing. Lost victory points on V-weapons and U-boats.
2. My error in not knowing how to use the manual RR repair units probably cost me the chance to pocket and bag large numbers of Germans prior to that final push in the north/central part of the front
3. Too many Allied casualties - lost points there too. I'm guessing it's a balancing act in the winter months to determine whether to keep attacking or hold and regroup and re-arm. I chose the attack route, as it seemed like the Germans were weak. I didn't want to give them the same opportunity to regain strength and figured I had the strength and airpower to keep the push on. It did cost me in Allied casualties.

Other comments:

1. No second invasion of Italy to force the Germans back.
2. No invasion of southern France
I purposely passed on these in favor of sending those units to England and staging a very large invasion of Holland, while keeping just enough strength in Italy to keep the pressure on. I purposely did not post pictures showing what was going on in the very south of France or showing England so as not to tip Scott off to what I was doing. The 1FF Corp, along with a couple of US divisions from the 1st Army, headed south from the Loire and St. Nazaire to take Marseilles and at the finish had surrounded Toulon. So while I didn't have those ports for supply, I also didn't have an army in the south to maintain.
3. The large airborne invasion in winter in Holland along with the seaborne invasion was very successful. By then, the Allies have gathered enough transports to make such an drop possible. I had to wait to drop the 17th, but changed it's drop to take Arnhem and cross the Rhine at the right time. These divisions are strong and recover quickly.

I'd love to hear any other comments or observations that anyone might have, most importantly from Scott since I'm only seeing my side. It's easy to miss something with the large scope and the amount of detail there is.

[carlkay58]

You should not have lost any UBoat VPs in the June 44 scenario as the UBoats do not matter after Jan 1 44. A good AAR and it does emphasize the difference between the two scenarios.

[scout1]

Lessons learned:

- I took too much account with what I could get away with from our first full campaign game with the EF active. Here there were no supply issues, even pulling the entire East Front to the West. So I basically ignored this part of the game. Not true for the 44 campaign with EF off. I still played this as a WitW lite. Big mistake on my part.
- Similar to the above, also didn't pay any attention to manpower. German units predominantly in the West became mere shells of their former combat strength. This result may have been from Dave's use of TAC air. But I believe it is more than that as Goering's boys decided to end their war early and barely were even flying over the last couple of months.
- Dave's move in the North did in fact start the downfall of the house of cards. Pity the SS units in Germany had called a time out for the balance of the war.


Other comments
- I had 7-10 full strength SS units show up, apparently as reinforcements, or so I thought. They wouldn't move a pinch. All were listed as "Withdrawing". Ultimately had other Wehrmacht units appear with the same constraints. Never did get to use them at all. The SS boys would have come in handy right after Dave's Northern Adventure. But alas, they spent there time in the local watering holes for the duration. Never understood why ... Course didn't try to look it up either.
- I agree with Carlkay58's comment about UBoat VP's. In the 43-45 campaign, believe UBoat VP's only exist in 43, not 44. Not sure if this is a bug or oversight in the 44 campaign.
- Not entirely sure what triggered the game to decide it was completed either.
- Can't get past the video screen when trying to get to the summary info (post game). Window becomes non-responsive and have to use task manager to kill it. Sure would be nice to be able to see the post game info ..... Only thing listed on previous page was it was Completed and score was -65, turn 49.

[Seminole]

- I had 7-10 full strength SS units show up, apparently as reinforcements, or so I thought. They wouldn't move a pinch. All were listed as "Withdrawing". Ultimately had other Wehrmacht units appear with the same constraints. Never did get to use them at all. The SS boys would have come in handy right after Dave's Northern Adventure. But alas, they spent there time in the local watering holes for the duration. Never understood why ... Course didn't try to look it up either.

With the EF box off there are scheduled reinforcements and withdrawals from the EF box to the German player's OoB.
Some of the units leave and then come back, especially several SS leave after the historical Battle of the Bulge.

If the units OoB is below 75% TOE when they are automatically pulled they will be frozen, relocated to Germany, assigned to OKW, and set on refit. I find the most effective thing to do is move OKW within 5 hexes and build a depot under the unit with priority 4 so they can get built up enough to ship out. Because they are frozen you can't re-assign them to a local 'reserve' corps commander with the good admin rating.

If units are withdrawn and then come back as reinforcements while the doppleganger remains in refit I've seen them come back with a slightly different name. That might have been why you saw so many SS units 'stuck'.

Units set to withdraw won't do so if they are isolated. A unit that is destroyed, reconstituted in Germany and then goes to the EF box and returns it will have it's default morale upon the return from the East Front.

[Joel Billings]

Did the Allies take Berlin? If not, then the game must have ended due to reaching May with the EF option off. It would help to know. Either way, the game shouldn't go to the video and keep you from seeing the final game status. I downloaded the last save from the server and I can email it to you if you send your email to 2by3@2by3games.com. It does show the final score was -65 (a draw).

[ultradave]

That would be great Joel. I'll send my email.

No I didn't take Berlin. I had 5 divisions adjacent to it, but there were two stacks sitting in Berlin with defense of X (>100). Was planning on bringing down some of the divisions north of Berlin to surround it and then pound it with airpower. Probably would have taken several more turns to actually take it.

I posted the issue with the game end and replay last turn in Tech Support with a link back to here.

[carlkay58]

A possibility: According to the above, the Axis had several SS divisions withdrawing but building up to the mandatory 50% minimum before withdrawing. IF they had hit that target number and then withdrew, the Allies could have projected a ZOC into the hexes of Berlin and captured it. I am not sure that this is what happened, but it is a possibility.

But it was turn 49 of 63 - or 14 turns left. 110 turns - 14 turns = turn 96 - with EF off this is when the 43 campaign ends. So it was probably the Soviets taking Berlin that ended the game.

[ultradave]

Soviets were far away, unless they made up huge ground at the first of May. Check the last picture on the previous page, which was from the last turn played. They hadn't moved more than a hex or two forward for a couple of months. I don't see them making up that ground and defeating 2 strong stacks holding Berlin all in one week. They wouldn't have the movement points to do that.

Guess I'll be able to see when Joel sends the saved game file.

I'll be sure to report what it looks like (inquiring minds want to know )

[Joel Billings]

This game had the EF option off, so it ended as it should at the start of the first Axis turn in May with the Soviets capturing Berlin. It might help to get an exact accounting of what the allied player saw after he ended his last April turn. It sounds like it somehow switched to the German turn and uploaded the save, but also showed the video to the Allied player. I can download the latest off the server and it's in the German turn and I get the video and then can view the map and victory screens as I should. The Allied player doesn't have a chance to look at things after the game, something on our list to improve, but I didn't realize they see the video. The other question is in this case was the German player able to see things (I'm not clear from the posts whether this was the case even though it seems to be for me when I grabbed the save).

[ultradave]

Just to clarify. I (the WA player) did not see anything. The only thing I get is when going to the game and trying to hit play as the server email said, to watch a replay of the last turn, it tells me it's not my turn. The game says "Completed" and I can't access it from Multiplayer.

[ultradave]

Just looked at the file you sent. When I open it up it gives me the finishing screen, with links on the bottom to view map and victory points. It's in the German air turn, so I see the Germans and what he sees of my WA units.

For the future as a suggestion, it would be nice to have 3 choices for each player after conclusion. German view, WA view and show all, to get an idea of where things stood at the end.

I see the Russians made it to Berlin. They went a long way the last week. They were about 10 hexes away. I realize it's set for the historical result. I outran my supplies for armored units in the north or I might have been able to beat them there

[scout1]

the only thing I got to see was the damn video ..... haven't a clue as to my units, your units or the Martians ....

[scout1]

how the Russians magically made it to Berlin is a game convenience I'm sure, given their distance prior ......

[scout1]

both sides should be given post game access though .....regardless

[Joel Billings]

Yes, we'd like to give both players end game access and that's on our task list. Unfortunately it's not easy to do.

I misread the posts above and thought the Allied player had seen the video. Sorry about that. The German player should see the video upon loading the last turn and then should be able to view the victory screen or the map (at which point the player is in the air phase, but you can look around and see your units and various info screens. Scout1 you mentioned you were in the air phase, so I'm thinking you made it to the map the first time and could look around. You should have had the end game screen listing the fact that the game was a Draw with text at the bottom that you could click on to take you to either the victory screen or the map. If you then exited it must have flagged the game as completed.

The bottom line is that we realize the end game in MP games is not satisfying and should be improved if possible. At least the final score shown on the screen is correct.

As for the Soviets, I think they can appear to get closer than 10 hexes away from Berlin at some point when using the EF option. The bottom line here is that with the EF off, you can be sure the game will end at the start of the first May turn with the Soviets in Berlin unless the Allies beat them to it.

[carlkay58]

A note: I have, in the past, had multi-player games end. If the Axis player saves the game off again, the Allied player may be able to view it then. This has worked about twice out of four or five games for me.

[Joel Billings]

Did the German player save the game or did he end the phase (once or twice) and it automatically saved? Good info if there's a method that lets the Allied player see the results it would be great to get the method described in detail. Thanks.