Newbs in the East: Psych0 (Axis) vs Drakken (Sov) - SOVIET RETURNED - NO AXIS

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Drakken

ORIGINAL: Telemecus



Maybe you are all going to turn inwards and gang up on Drakken? [;)]

That would be an interesting game - what if all 4 panzer groups went for Moscow? [X(]

Been done

This is the last chance before 1.11.0

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Drakken



That would be an interesting game - what if all 4 panzer groups went for Moscow? [X(]

Been done

This is the last chance before 1.11.0

Even after it (the new patch) I bet it can be done

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Drakken

ORIGINAL: Telemecus



Maybe you are all going to turn inwards and gang up on Drakken? [;)]

That would be an interesting game - what if all 4 panzer groups went for Moscow? [X(]

Been done

Nor has it been forgotten. [;)]

[WingedIncubus]

T7 - July 31st, 1941 - SITREP

Just as M60A3TTS predicted, psych0 went for a wide right turn passed the Volkhov river. However, thankfully he reached neither Novaya Ladoga not Sviritsa. First order of business will be for me to redeploy all my Northwestern Front to cover both ports, the river lines, and the neighboring swamp hexes. Time to use my available vehicles to motorized the lot of them and move them out.

His infrantry blasted my line at Kolpino, routing both Divisions there. Thankfully, one of them magically teleported right on Novaya Ladoga.

However, the Mga railroad is now permanenly cut, and its furthest ZOC prevents me from using the Volkhov rail rine. Officially, Northern Front is now totally fucked, trapped with next to no escape except through Osinovets. The silver lining is that I have enough port shipping available to move a whole stack away from Leningrad each Turn, which I will use to extract full stacks right into Sviritsa - and away from that cauldron. I will attempt to evacuate whatever I can until he either surrounds the town or he caps it.


In the Centre, just as I expected, psych0 has committed ALL its panzer groups' divisions to a sheer brute force push right into my strongest point. All of them were concentrated like a massively ram right in my centre line into Rossokovsky's forces. Many divisions were routed and it has created a six-hexes wide gap, however it seems that my tactic of using Cavalry in my rear as a anti-penetration anchors has worked: psych0 attempted to send forward units further in my rear but their movements points was absorbed by those units. No maneuver in my rear was achieved!!

While costly, this proves to be a strategic and operational failure for psych0. Panzers are made to pierce, and reach wide and deep in the rear, and surround. Currently, two panzer groups are now reduced to be battering rams into deep Soviet lines. In the end, for now, this has achieved no encirclement nor real degradation of my situation in the Centre - except being nearby Moscow and tettering on losing it.

I might as well face the facts: Moscow seemss all but gone. And it's not even August yet, I am right there at the Capital and I do not expect to reach September holding it. Totally frustating because this is beyond ridiculous from any real-life logistical standpoint but that's WITE 1.0 for you. It was announced that the next patch will introduce supply deterioration for the Axis players. We'll see how it changes things for the Soviets.

I will have no choice but to reel my troops behind the Lama river and Kaluga - and in the vicinity of Moscow - right into the woods. But this might prove to be a blessing in disguise, I believe? This basically commits him to keep pushing through again in the centre, sacrificing maneuver mobility for sheer mass because the alternative is to attempt lateral flanking attacked into Rivers, bad terrain, and fortified towns.

My consolation is that psych0 seems to have totally crapped his panzer units doing so. He has commented that all his three pushes was at heavy cost of panzers, with many Pz divs down to less than 200 AFVs. That was, if you remember, my first objective - attrite his panzers to the point that psych0 loses his teeth. I have a feeling that, at least in the Centre, his forces might be reaching its limit. I do not know how all this impacts the Axis game, so more experienced players may chime in if I am being too optimistic.

Comparatively, my current losses so far are "under control" at under 1,8 million reaching August, with no big encirclement in sight except Leningrad of course. Far from the 3+ millions casualties the Axis has to cost the Soviets to have a realistic shot. I still hold the numerical advantage and starting mid-August the reinforcements will start pouring in.



In the South, predictably PG4 has assaulted my line and is now beyond the Dnepr. However the retreat was in good order, leaving a big salient that unfortunately I cannot exploit. Plus, Zaporozhye still holds.

I will have no choice but to retreat yet again, this time to create a new "line" with what remains between Kharkov and Stalino, and draw him even further from his 25 hex supply line. This will also force to separate my front line to create a new Crimean front.


All in all, this Turn was much better than anticipated. I was scared to death of what was about to happen, but now it seems that my opponent is reaching overextension. I see some things that seem to bring glimmer of hope that I might, in fact, changing my situation for slightly better.

[WingedIncubus]

Also, psych0 made this comment which is a puzzle for me:

Not sure how you can defend better, perhaps you're still too far forward. I can't pocket anything really but I can route a lot of units as they have to retreat through fully stacked hexes. Very much focused on that this turn which should make your units weaker for coming turns.

I meant that I'm constantly fighting at about 20-25 hexes from my railhead the last 3 turns. If you would have been further back I wouldn't have been able to attack you at all for a number of turns. Not sure if it makes a difference. Just trying to think what could be done differently that might be more effective. I don't know.

My question is, how the hell can I be fighting too far forward when I am within 15 hexes of Moscow? Would going further away basically give good ground for nothing? There is so much space I can escape before basically fighting with Moscow right in my back - or abandoning Moscow.

But now I see how much not building my line right in the landbridge from T1 has been costly for me: Had I placed myself right there I might have saved 1-2 more Turns until T10 where the real reinforcements start to arrive. [:(]

[M60A3TTS]

In the north, you should disband the fortified zone in Leningrad while you can. A combat unit gives you a much higher CV. You don’t need that fort at Oranienburg either.

Again, that rifle brigade at x83 y16 needs to be replaced by a division.

I would use naval transport (F3 key) to slip a couple units out from Osinovets on Lake Ladoga to Sviritsa. You can pull in those units from around Oranienburg to add to the defense north of the Neva.

Motorization is a seldom used feature for good reason. It costs a lot of admin points and trucks. You should be able to get most units east of the Volkhov just by walking. Just get everything you can out now that is south of the Neva back over the Volkhov.

Practically speaking, the only port you should worry about is Sviritsa. The other ports are too vulnerable and will just cost you units.

This is the time you need to garrison Moscow with a couple units. An Axis player will happily sacrifice a panzer division to walk into an ungarrisoned Moscow and destroy a good chunk of industry while they’re at it. Same for Kharkov.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Curious, why are you defending the gateway to the Crimea so strongly? IMHO you have "way" too many units guarding nothing of value to the Soviets long term. I personally gift it to the Germans if they want defending it with 3 airborne regiments until turn 12ish. Nothing in the Crimea, use those division where they are desperately needed. (stupid mod, some of the German units look like Russians)

[WingedIncubus]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Curious, why are you defending the gateway to the Crimea so strongly? IMHO you have "way" too many units guarding nothing of value to the Soviets long term. I personally gift it to the Germans if they want defending it with 3 airborne regiments until turn 12ish. Nothing in the Crimea, use those division where they are desperately needed. (stupid mod, some of the German units look like Russians)

My thought is to force psych0 to divert troops too to Crimea. Bypassing me would leave me positioned in his flank and would be an immense threat to his rear. He would have no choice either to commit precious Infantry troops (including German) to maintain the front, or to pursue a full invasion of Crimea.

In real life, that would be sound. In the game, however, that might me wishful thinking.

I agree that pulling that whole southern line to Crimea is a waste of troops. Maybe I just need the equivalent of a half army (5-6 Divisions, or 12:24) there. Cavalry needs to retreat East where the immense space of the Donbass will prove more advantageous terrain, with only a handful of divisions in Crimea to defend holding the bottleneck and the supply line from Sebastopol to keep me supplied.

[WingedIncubus]

Also, the timing seems to be good to take a closer look on how to organize and tinker with my airforce. I do have about 20+ squadrons in my national reserve ready to be deployed - but I don't know how to optimally place them and in which airbase types.

I do know, however, that SAD bases will be disbanded on their own so no need to send squadrons there. Also, those squadrons with low morale or experience should remain in National Reserve.

One thing psych0 is NOT doing, and which he should definitely be doing, is bombing the hell out of my airbases. Plus his air coverage is, frankly, a bit poor in the Centre and the South. VVS is left a free hand there to bomb wherever it wants with minimum coverage, my losses are fully from FLAK or the few interceptors when I bomb too far inside his lines. Sometimes only 1-2 bombers sortie, and sometimes up to 8-14 do. Depends on a variety of factors, I am sure.

His forward panzers are not covered by CAP at all, which means I bomb them each of them at will with next to no losses in return.

[WingedIncubus]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Again, that rifle brigade at x83 y16 needs to be replaced by a division.

Correct, it will go to convert that Kolpino hex back to the Soviets.

[SparkleyTits]

Yeah I am also bewildered on how to make and use an effective air force. I would also love to hear any advice and tips

[WingedIncubus]

Question: If I have a chance to isolate one Panzer or Motorized Division locally - say, in the Centre - is it worth it sacrifice one or two cavalry Division doing so, even if it will most probably not last until next turn?

[Stelteck]

ORIGINAL: Drakken

Question: If I have a chance to isolate one Panzer or Motorized Division locally - say, in the Centre - is it worth it sacrifice one or two cavalry Division doing so, even if it will most probably not last until next turn?

Yes, cavalry divisions are designed for that. They are map painter with little combat value you can sacrifice them.

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

ORIGINAL: Drakken

Question: If I have a chance to isolate one Panzer or Motorized Division locally - say, in the Centre - is it worth it sacrifice one or two cavalry Division doing so, even if it will most probably not last until next turn?

Yes, cavalry divisions are designed for that. They are map painter with little combat value you can sacrifice them.

Don't underestimate the importance of forming efficient cavalry corps for the winter! You should nurture as many guards cavalry divisions as possible, so don't lose too many of them. They however excellent in the "indirect attacks" that encircle the enemy and cut their supply.

About Crimea: it should definitely be more strategically important in WitE, as it historically was that for both sides. Now we see the 11th Army mostly heading straight towards Rostov through Stalino, since there's a lot more industry there which is in-game strategically way more important than the empty Crimean peninsula.

PS. Stelteck, you're giving out an impression of a quite careless Soviet player, if you think cavalry is only fodder and the only factories worth saving are vehicle and IL-2. I hope it's just a ploy to distract your opponents

[Stelteck]

ORIGINAL: Nix77
PS. Stelteck, you're giving out an impression of a quite careless Soviet player, if you think cavalry is only fodder and the only factories worth saving are vehicle and IL-2. I hope it's just a ploy to distract your opponents

You see me quite clearly.
I'am not a micro-manager unlike many players here and i'am always looking for quick&dirty tricks that allow me to gain time during turn process.
But maybe because of that i have the true soviet attitude. The soviets where the master of quick&dirty engineering and tactics.

As soviet, you need to be proactive to DO something to the enemy during the turn, even if it is a small thing, because if you only think of what the enemy can do to you, you will end up crying with a bottle of vodka.

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: Stelteck
As soviet, you need to be proactive to DO something to the enemy during the turn, even if it is a small thing, because if you only think of what the enemy can do to you, you will end up crying with a bottle of vodka.

That describes perfectly my feelings from the last couple of turns on September as Soviet

I just couldn't get around doing that small thing, and kept staring the map for hours on end. Good thing I didn't have any vodka in the cabinet, the tears quenched my thirst. But now, a while later, I've never felt this good when the autumn rains arrive!

[WingedIncubus]

T7 - July 31st, 1941 - Northern Sector

Self-explanatory. Sviritsa is now well protected with a ring of defensive positions, using both the rivers and among the worst possible terrain types for Panzer Group 1's tanks and motorized divisions. If he wants to take it he will have to cleave HARD through it. Most of Northern Front's screen troops south of the Neva were either moved into the city or to back Sviritsa, reorganized under 7th Independent Army under Georgy Zakharov, which is a beast. [X(]

However, I noticed that Sviritsa can be attacked from the North through the Finnish No Attack Line, when the Finns reach it soonish.

My isolated brigade has moved north to cut the most direct supply line to Panzer Group 1. His fuel will have to pass through Novgorod instead. However, since my railroad is harassed by the German forward divisions I am no longer able to evacuate factories and indusries from Leningrad. I hope x83, y16 will build its fort VERY fast. [:(]

One thing I noticed is that my Air Force was never bombing from my airbases in the North, but from the Centre. I checked and they seem not to be very fatigued, so I do not understand why. [&:]

[WingedIncubus]

T7 - July 31st, 1941 - Central Sector

Psych0's 10th Motorized Division is totally surrounded by cavalry and 145th Rifle Division and will become isolated on his turn. It will most assuredly not last until next turn BUT it will severely damage that unit's morale and supplies. Unfortunately, I had not enough available firepower to counterattack.

This time, rather than mix up a mish-mash of units of different Armies randomly to gether I decided to put them in Army areas, each subordinate Division beside and within one another. I try this to streamline their command and control and (hopefully) have it grant some bonus - any bonus.

Right in front of Panzer Army Centre (let's call it that now) is Rossokovsky's 4th Army, newly-appointed Vasilievsky's 13th Army (another monstrously talented general) and Krivoshein's 22th Army.

Golubev's 10th Army guards the South in front of Kaluga, while newly-formed 54th Army under Kulik guards the inner ring and Moscow itself. Finally, I order Kurochkin's 43th Army to leave Bryansk only to a Cavalry division to screen my left flank, in case Psych0 attempts to go around the South of Moscow. I just cannot leave that river line offered to Psych0 without a significant commitment on his part.

I have no more Reserves to spare, though - the bulk of my reinforcement will start arriving on Turn 10. Bryansk and my left flank is vulnerable. If he commits half of his Panzer Army South however it will seperate his concentration of force in two, allowing me to spread wider and deal with his weakened panzer divisions piecemeal. I still have the Zhidzra to hold as a line in front of Tula if he makes a sign of aiming for a roundabout.

I pray for a miracle or rain or mud, but this seems to be remote. [:(]

[WingedIncubus]

T7 - July 31st, 1941 - Southern Sector

Massive redeployment of my line toward the Donets between Kharkov and Stalino.

Now if he is still within 20-25 hexes of his converted railroad after reaching this line, I will scream. [:@]

Btw... Kiev still holds. Keeping resupplying it by air.




As planned, I leave only a token few Divisions to bottleneck Crimea. The remaining is all shifed East to Stalino.

[WingedIncubus]

T7 - July 31st, 1941 - Evacuation

I just do not have enough railroad cap to move everything I want. Since Moscow is vulnerable, I concentrate there.

Every T34 factory and at leact one of each vehicle factory is evacuated from Moscow, except IL-10 and PE-3. This seems VERY excessive, yet they were not that expensive a piece and I thought maybe the more I move, the more and quicker the T34s will start to arrive. They are moved to Chelyabinsk.

Might seem very excessive, but I want those T34. NOW!!!!!!!! [:@]

I evacuate 3 HI and 1 Armament from Zaporozhye to Zlatoust. Unfortunately, I have to abandon the rest with the city. [:(]