Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy?

[countrboy]

Define your mega stack.

Sorry, just saw your reply now. I guess the answer to that is a subjective one, but for me, 4 or more units per stack starts to become almost unplayable (also depending on unit size of course). There's too much going on and a sense of just throwing everything in there and seeing what happens. On a 3 front attack you might have 18 or 19 units participating!

I have no problem with the unit scale, but perhaps a different map scale might avoid over-stacking? As I mentioned in my earlier post, the Tiller Panzer Campaign series has a similar scale but I get the feeling that hex sizes are smaller? Which perhaps allows you to fit more units in a given area without overstacking issues.

[bcgames]

Panzer Campaigns uses 1000 meters per hex.

[countrboy]

How does that compare with DW?

[bcgames]

Desert War ground scale = ~2 miles/3200 meters per hex.

[countrboy]

ORIGINAL: bcgames

Desert War ground scale = ~2 miles/3200 meters per hex.

That might be it then. PZC unit sizes are much the same as DW, but there are more hexes for a given area size, which means that large stacks seldom occur (besides the rules on stacking limits). You need to spread your units out more as compared to DW to cover the same area.

It would be interesting to see how DW with 1000m hexes would play.

[bcgames]

Maybe someday that'll happen. Right now we're dealing with ground/unit scales in Stalingrad: Nightmare on the Volga from July 23 1942 to 2 February 1943--from the steppe fight to the city fight. There are 22 Axis divisions in the Stalingrad pocket alone. Desert War might have that many divisions in only one scenario--El Alamein--with both sides combined. We are actively seeking to avoid making a monster game...cuz we don't play them. It's not just stack size, it's also about the number of stacks; the size of the scenario. Simply put, does your puzzle have 250, 500, or 1000 pieces? What number inspires you to solve the puzzle and what number causes you to just admire the box cover. Dunno.

[countrboy]

Sure, it's horses for courses as regards scenario size. Can you cater for all preferences? PzC for example, ranges from small 10 unit scenarios over 5 turns, to literally thousands of units over 450 turns or more. Some play the small ones, some play the large ones, it's just personal preference.

[bcgames]

It's a two-man band working part time. We can do everything anybody wants. We like small and soon...else the wives say none and never. Just sayin'...

[countrboy]

Fair enough and understood.

[bcgames]

Questions of stack and scale still stand unresolved. What to do? I'm thinking 2500 meters is good for regimental scale for the steppe fight. However, I think 500 meters per hex is unsatisfactory in replicating the "feel of success" for the city fight. I'm starting to think that 200-300 meters per hex for the city will provide a better "feel" and thus--a better game.

[countrboy]

Just as an aside, can the DW map be modded? Is it possible for someone to change the map to say 1000m hexes, or is it hardcoded?

[bcgames]

Can the DW map be modded? In a word--No. Can you design a new map at what ever ground/time/unit scale you want you using the editor? In a word--Yes. I'm going to pull a statistic out of my ass and say that 80% of the Desert War engine is in the hands of the scenario designer. As a modder from way back in the day of the pixel-by-pixel edit and the under-the-hood hexadecimal text edit, Desert War is a walk in the park on a warm day. If there's something you can't do with the map editor, tell me about it and we will see what we can do to improve an already awesome map tool. I'm serious--what do you want the map tool to do?

[countrboy]

I haven't even looked at the editor to be honest. I usually don't find enough free time to play the games I own, never mind firing up the editor and making changes. That said, I'm always open to something new and will tinker with the editor a bit. Thanks for your reply, I'll stop bugging you now.

[bcgames]

Armstrong and Miller - Pilots get captured

https://youtu.be/3JWl1knJvPY

[bcgames]

Back to the original question, Why didn't you buy? Please feel free to enumerate your requirements here.

[James Taylor]

Determine a certain unit density per hex, depending on terrain. Armor, large artillery pieces, etc will have a limitation in terrain that does not support their ability to maneuver, so less unit density.

Each hex is a unit container, take for an example a TOAW unit. The unit displays the movement and combat values of the conglomerate.

Whatever is the basic building block, squads, platoons, companies or battalions, allow them to combine and breakdown into whatever battle groups the players designate to accomplish the mission.

What you see in the hex is only one unit representing the kampfgruppe.

[bcgames]

This is all a coding stuff that flies over my head. I do consider the homogeneous regimental roll-up as a dead-end and DEAD. The game system works best in my view as a battalion/company/battery level game. The Stalingrad ALPHA at regimental level is a stinking turd in the punch bowel; I'm not playing it. If finding a "container" type system is a capability, I'll take a look. As for now, I've burned too much midnight oil trying to simply the game engine without any payback in game play--zero payback. It's going to take combat engineers with satchel charges and flamethrowers to ever remove me again from pursuing a battalion scale game. Damn the Stacks! Full Speed Ahead!

[Saint Ruth]

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

Whatever is the basic building block, squads, platoons, companies or battalions, allow them to combine and breakdown into whatever battle groups the players designate to accomplish the mission.

Mmmm...interesting, though problems could be, what if the units are from different organizations? They couldn't then combine as a unit can only have 1 HQ...artillery of course couldn't rollup. It's an interesting idea though, and I could see a game wiht stacks where you'd press a unit and they'd all be replaced by a single unit, but I think that's something that needs to be thought of from the start. A bit late now I'm afriad!

[benpark]

That idea is really very interesting, indeed. And the follow on issue of organization. Figure it out, and that seems like something new altogether.

[bcgames]

I think Elvis has left the building on the container idea. However, BK has created a firm foundation for a battalion-level WEGO game. The correct ground scale(s) for best applications is now the center of debate in my view. Chit-chatting with ALPHA testers, emerging consensus on the scale set to try is 8kms/1.6kms/.2kms per hex (i.e. 5-miles, 1-mile and 200 meters/yards per hex). We'll see what happens.