Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspite1 (J) vs AllenK (A)

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1
so the third picture below presumably just shows top speed in case on the mission the ships have to use it and alerts the player in case he has too slow a ship in a particular task force.

Not exactly. Mission speed settings for that TF will move it 8 hexes in the first movement phase and 4 in the next. Full speed settings 8/8. Cruise 3/3 or 4/2.

You had asked before how to calculate number of days to target. 1. Select your TF. 2. Select your target. 3. Adjust your movement orders / routing orders to accommodate the movement (i.e., how sensitive to different threats you want to be). Now your distance to target will be in the brackets in the 'moves (m/c)' row.

In this case, you've selected destination hex 138,96. It's 46 hexes from your current location with your current move orders.
With 'Mission' speed it will take you 46/12= just under 4 days sail. Cruise speed double that.

warspite1

No I'm happy with the 46 days and the movement calculation. What I still don't understand is the two numbers before the (46) - these being 175/97 and 43/97 (when on Mission speed).

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1
so the third picture below presumably just shows top speed in case on the mission the ships have to use it and alerts the player in case he has too slow a ship in a particular task force.

Not exactly. Mission speed settings for that TF will move it 8 hexes in the first movement phase and 4 in the next. Full speed settings 8/8. Cruise 3/3 or 4/2.

You had asked before how to calculate number of days to target. 1. Select your TF. 2. Select your target. 3. Adjust your movement orders / routing orders to accommodate the movement (i.e., how sensitive to different threats you want to be). Now your distance to target will be in the brackets in the 'moves (m/c)' row.

In this case, you've selected destination hex 138,96. It's 46 hexes from your current location with your current move orders.
With 'Mission' speed it will take you 46/12= just under 4 days sail. Cruise speed double that.

The part about moving 8 hexes in the first movement phase is incorrect. 8 hexes is 320 NM so in one 12 hour phase it would have to move at 26.66 kts - full speed. The TF at mission speed setting will not use full speed unless reacting to something. It will likely move at cruise speed for four hexes distance in the first naval movement phase.

warspite1

That was my understanding. It's approx 8 hexes per turn (4 per phase) at Cruise Speed. And Mission Speed is showing exactly the same numbers as Cruise Speed (but with the caveat that rustysi provided (post 151).

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1
so the third picture below presumably just shows top speed in case on the mission the ships have to use it and alerts the player in case he has too slow a ship in a particular task force.

Not exactly. Mission speed settings for that TF will move it 8 hexes in the first movement phase and 4 in the next. Full speed settings 8/8. Cruise 3/3 or 4/2.

You had asked before how to calculate number of days to target. 1. Select your TF. 2. Select your target. 3. Adjust your movement orders / routing orders to accommodate the movement (i.e., how sensitive to different threats you want to be). Now your distance to target will be in the brackets in the 'moves (m/c)' row.

In this case, you've selected destination hex 138,96. It's 46 hexes from your current location with your current move orders.
With 'Mission' speed it will take you 46/12= just under 4 days sail. Cruise speed double that.

warspite1

No I'm happy with the 46 days and the movement calculation. What I still don't understand is the two numbers before the (46) - these being 175/97 and 43/97 (when on Mission speed).

The first number is your total fuel range in hexes. The second number is the number of hexes to get to your destination and back to home port. The third number is to destination only. Note that at full speed, fuel usage to travel one hex is four times normal, so that will drop your fuel range available accordingly for each hex traveled at full speed. During the course of movement at mission setting there might be a burst of speed called for that is less than one hex (e.g., as sub is detected and the TF must run or dodge torpedoes). In these cases the extra fuel used from the movement is calculated into the fuel usage for the turn and will be reflected in the new fuel range figures next turn.

Also be aware that routing instructions can have a big effect on movement. A TF set at "Normal" threat tolerance and "Safe" Routing is likely to react around any enemy air or naval threats (even if you do not have visible detection of them). The extra distance can mess up your arrival at destination schedule and even your ability to get there on fuel remaining. For critical movements I set the TF on Direct routing and Absolute Threat Tolerance, then give them an aggressive TF commander who will forge on (rather than RTB because a sub was detected!).

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy




Not exactly. Mission speed settings for that TF will move it 8 hexes in the first movement phase and 4 in the next. Full speed settings 8/8. Cruise 3/3 or 4/2.

You had asked before how to calculate number of days to target. 1. Select your TF. 2. Select your target. 3. Adjust your movement orders / routing orders to accommodate the movement (i.e., how sensitive to different threats you want to be). Now your distance to target will be in the brackets in the 'moves (m/c)' row.

In this case, you've selected destination hex 138,96. It's 46 hexes from your current location with your current move orders.
With 'Mission' speed it will take you 46/12= just under 4 days sail. Cruise speed double that.

warspite1

No I'm happy with the 46 days and the movement calculation. What I still don't understand is the two numbers before the (46) - these being 175/97 and 43/97 (when on Mission speed).

The first number is your total fuel range in hexes. The second number is the number of hexes to get to your destination and back to home port. The third number is to destination only.

warspite1

That is a really important piece of into. Is that explanation in the manual or did you pick it up from the forum? I don't want to be asking questions that are answered in the manual if I can help it but I'm jiggered if I could see this explained [&:].

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

No I'm happy with the 46 days and the movement calculation. What I still don't understand is the two numbers before the (46) - these being 175/97 and 43/97 (when on Mission speed).

The first number is your total fuel range in hexes. The second number is the number of hexes to get to your destination and back to home port. The third number is to destination only.

warspite1

That is a really important piece of into. Is that explanation in the manual or did you pick it up from the forum? I don't want to be asking questions that are answered in the manual if I can help it but I'm jiggered if I could see this explained [&:].

I looked in the manual under the entire Naval Section and it did not directly mention those three numbers (BTW, only two numbers are shown if your TF is returning to home port). There is a brief mention on the Ship Screen info about the total fuel range figure and the tons and % of fuel in the bunkers.

To answer your question I learned about the numbers by osmosis - it is easy to see after following a TF for a couple of days movement that the numbers work out as stated, with one exception. If some ships in the TF do not have enough fuel to complete the mission, the game will do a rough calculation on refuelling the smaller ranged ships from the ones with excess fuel and show a fuel range accordingly.

You can order this fuel transfer by clicking the "refuel at sea" button or just let the game take care of it when the short-ranged ships are at critical fuel levels. In some cases, the ones that have enough fuel for the mission do not have enough excess to share so clicking the "refuel at sea button" will get a response along the lines "unable to refuel TF XX at sea".

There is a section in the Manual about fuel usage in general:

6.2.13 SHIP ENDURANCE
Ships use fuel whenever they move. In War in the Pacific, Admiral’s Edition™, each ship is
rated for how much fuel it can hold as well as its maximum endurance, which is the number
of miles the ship can travel at cruising speed. The TF display shows the amount of endurance
remaining for each ship in the TF. A ship with no endurance left will cause its TF to have a
maximum movement speed of one hex per naval movement phase.
Whenever a ship moves in a TF, it draws on its Endurance, which in turn subtracts from the
amount of fuel carried. Fuel is expended when:
»» A ship moves the entire turn at or below its Cruising Speed (the cruise speed
for the ship in hexes as specified on each Ship Information Screen); this
ship will use up Endurance equal to 40 times the number of hexes moved.
»» For each hex moved over the ship’s Cruising Speed, the ship will expend
an additional 240 endurance per hex. The cruising speed of the TF in hexes
is figured by the Cruising Speed of the slowest ship in it. Since each ship
checks the TF move against its own Cruising Speed, ships in the same
TF can use up different amounts of Endurance in the same move.
»» Each ship in a TF that is not docked also expends a small amount
of Endurance every turn equal to 40 times the ship’s cruising
speed in hexes (i.e. it is assumed they are constantly moving at
cruising speed even if they aren’t moving to other hexes).
»» For every plane that is launched on a Strike Mission from
a TF, the ships in the TF expend one Endurance.
»» For every three planes launched on a Search or CAP
Mission, the ships in the TF expend one Endurance.
»» Every ship in a TF that is involved in surface combat expends 200 Endurance.
»» Whenever a TF is bombed or strafed, all ships in the TF
expend one Endurance per attacking plane.

Edit: I am not sure if the figures of "an additional 240 endurance" per hex is still applicable. The manual has not been updated with all the programming changes. I will try to find Alfred's latest info on the usage rate "above cruise speed".

[warspite1]

Okay thanks - I'm glad I've not missed it, but that is a poor omission.

Yes I'm fine with Endurance (post 133).

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1
so the third picture below presumably just shows top speed in case on the mission the ships have to use it and alerts the player in case he has too slow a ship in a particular task force.

Not exactly. Mission speed settings for that TF will move it 8 hexes in the first movement phase and 4 in the next. Full speed settings 8/8. Cruise 3/3 or 4/2.

You had asked before how to calculate number of days to target. 1. Select your TF. 2. Select your target. 3. Adjust your movement orders / routing orders to accommodate the movement (i.e., how sensitive to different threats you want to be). Now your distance to target will be in the brackets in the 'moves (m/c)' row.

In this case, you've selected destination hex 138,96. It's 46 hexes from your current location with your current move orders.
With 'Mission' speed it will take you 46/12= just under 4 days sail. Cruise speed double that.

The part about moving 8 hexes in the first movement phase is incorrect. 8 hexes is 320 NM so in one 12 hour phase it would have to move at 26.66 kts - full speed. The TF at mission speed setting will not use full speed unless reacting to something. It will likely move at cruise speed for four hexes distance in the first naval movement phase.

My recollection is that Mission Speed TFs moves are not evenly distributed between the first and second naval movement phases. Thus, a mission speed that will yield 12 hexes is not evenly distributed 6/6 for each of the two movement phases, but rather 8/4 as an example. The first movement phase results in the preponderance of the movement for the turn.

Of course, I may be misremembering this caveat. But I'm pretty sure that the two movement phases are unequal for purposes of calculation of movement.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy




Not exactly. Mission speed settings for that TF will move it 8 hexes in the first movement phase and 4 in the next. Full speed settings 8/8. Cruise 3/3 or 4/2.

You had asked before how to calculate number of days to target. 1. Select your TF. 2. Select your target. 3. Adjust your movement orders / routing orders to accommodate the movement (i.e., how sensitive to different threats you want to be). Now your distance to target will be in the brackets in the 'moves (m/c)' row.

In this case, you've selected destination hex 138,96. It's 46 hexes from your current location with your current move orders.
With 'Mission' speed it will take you 46/12= just under 4 days sail. Cruise speed double that.

The part about moving 8 hexes in the first movement phase is incorrect. 8 hexes is 320 NM so in one 12 hour phase it would have to move at 26.66 kts - full speed. The TF at mission speed setting will not use full speed unless reacting to something. It will likely move at cruise speed for four hexes distance in the first naval movement phase.

My recollection is that Mission Speed TFs moves are not evenly distributed between the first and second naval movement phases. Thus, a mission speed that will yield 12 hexes is not evenly distributed 6/6 for each of the two movement phases, but rather 8/4 as an example. The first movement phase results in the preponderance of the movement for the turn.

Of course, I may be misremembering this caveat. But I'm pretty sure that the two movement phases are unequal for purposes of calculation of movement.

That can be checked easily on the selected TF. 12 hexes = 480 nm. Over two phases the average speed would be (480/24=) 20 knots. The slowest ship cruise speed in that TF would have to be 20 knots. I don't know of any warships that use that high a cruise speed ( but maybe super-fast minelayer Abdiel does).

There is no way for the player to ensure a TF moves at full speed in one phase and cruise speed in another. Even the bombardment TF algorithm that normally sprints in and out of the target hex sets itself to use two full phases of movement for the sprint. Only setting the TF to Remain on Station or cruise speed with Direct/Absolute settings will cancel the sprint algorithm, but that means the TF still moves at the same speed both phases.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy




The part about moving 8 hexes in the first movement phase is incorrect. 8 hexes is 320 NM so in one 12 hour phase it would have to move at 26.66 kts - full speed. The TF at mission speed setting will not use full speed unless reacting to something. It will likely move at cruise speed for four hexes distance in the first naval movement phase.

My recollection is that Mission Speed TFs moves are not evenly distributed between the first and second naval movement phases. Thus, a mission speed that will yield 12 hexes is not evenly distributed 6/6 for each of the two movement phases, but rather 8/4 as an example. The first movement phase results in the preponderance of the movement for the turn.

Of course, I may be misremembering this caveat. But I'm pretty sure that the two movement phases are unequal for purposes of calculation of movement.

That can be checked easily on the selected TF. 12 hexes = 480 nm. Over two phases the average speed would be (480/24=) 20 knots. The slowest ship cruise speed in that TF would have to be 20 knots. I don't know of any warships that use that high a cruise speed ( but maybe super-fast minelayer Abdiel does).

There is no way for the player to ensure a TF moves at full speed in one phase and cruise speed in another. Even the bombardment TF algorithm that normally sprints in and out of the target hex sets itself to use two full phases of movement for the sprint. Only setting the TF to Remain on Station or cruise speed with Direct/Absolute settings will cancel the sprint algorithm, but that means the TF still moves at the same speed both phases.

I went back to the manual and looked again at the movement rules and noted the caveat on p. 92, section 6.2.3:

"Over time, a TF will move the right number of hexes for its speed, but some pulses it will move 1 hex more than others. (e.g., a TF with a speed of 10 will move 4 hexes 1 out of every 3 turns) . This speed applies to both 12 hour movement pulses. This speed applies to both 12 hour movement pulses. So on the turns that the TF has a speed of 3, it will move 3 in both the day and night phases (6 total for the day), while on turns it moves a speed of 4, it will move 4 in both the day and night phases (8 total for the day)."

Looks like it does this to make up for a rounding error of sorts. So the CVTF example is supposed to move 4.2 hexes (Kaga slowest cruise = 4.2 hexes / naval movement segment) x 2=8 hexes total 4 days out of 5. On that 5th day, it should move 5/5=10. I think I miscalculated / misremembered how that was calculated in my previous post.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy




My recollection is that Mission Speed TFs moves are not evenly distributed between the first and second naval movement phases. Thus, a mission speed that will yield 12 hexes is not evenly distributed 6/6 for each of the two movement phases, but rather 8/4 as an example. The first movement phase results in the preponderance of the movement for the turn.

Of course, I may be misremembering this caveat. But I'm pretty sure that the two movement phases are unequal for purposes of calculation of movement.

That can be checked easily on the selected TF. 12 hexes = 480 nm. Over two phases the average speed would be (480/24=) 20 knots. The slowest ship cruise speed in that TF would have to be 20 knots. I don't know of any warships that use that high a cruise speed ( but maybe super-fast minelayer Abdiel does).

There is no way for the player to ensure a TF moves at full speed in one phase and cruise speed in another. Even the bombardment TF algorithm that normally sprints in and out of the target hex sets itself to use two full phases of movement for the sprint. Only setting the TF to Remain on Station or cruise speed with Direct/Absolute settings will cancel the sprint algorithm, but that means the TF still moves at the same speed both phases.

I went back to the manual and looked again at the movement rules and noted the caveat on p. 92, section 6.2.3:

"Over time, a TF will move the right number of hexes for its speed, but some pulses it will move 1 hex more than others. (e.g., a TF with a speed of 10 will move 4 hexes 1 out of every 3 turns) . This speed applies to both 12 hour movement pulses. This speed applies to both 12 hour movement pulses. So on the turns that the TF has a speed of 3, it will move 3 in both the day and night phases (6 total for the day), while on turns it moves a speed of 4, it will move 4 in both the day and night phases (8 total for the day)."

Looks like it does this to make up for a rounding error of sorts. So the CVTF example is supposed to move 4.2 hexes (Kaga slowest cruise = 4.2 hexes / naval movement segment) x 2=8 hexes total 4 days out of 5. On that 5th day, it should move 5/5=10. I think I miscalculated / misremembered how that was calculated in my previous post.

Yes, as I described in my original post # 156 above, there is a carry-over of movement. The 4.2 hexes you mention would be in one phase, so only 2.5 days to gain an additional hex movement (assuming nothing else changes the TF speed or direction).

[warspite1]

Right I got a little sidetracked. Aircraft and the KB.

I am going through giving orders to my air units within the KB and will post these in due course. However I am struggling to find an explanation in the manual for three of the coloured circles that appear when pressing F3. I've word searched radius and purple but no joy. Does anyone know what these denote please?

[Chickenboy]

At distances 11 & 14, those appear to be the ranges of your aircraft (A6M2) with drop tanks affixed for the mission. Click on the yellow text for 'Not using drop tanks' and toggle that back and forth for additional clarification.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

At distances 11 & 14, those appear to be the ranges of your aircraft (A6M2) with drop tanks affixed for the mission. Click on the yellow text for 'Not using drop tanks' and toggle that back and forth for additional clarification.

warspite1

Thanks. Section 7.2.1.6.2 deals with DROP TANK RANGES but uses 'rings' rather than radius hence my word search failed.

[warspite1]

I would be grateful for some comment on the table below and how the game interprets orders. These are orders for the KB's air groups and come from Kull's spreadsheet. This is not designed as a commentary on Kull's orders as such - but to better understand the game mechanics for newbies like myself.

Fighters

So my understanding from the manual that there is no CAP mission as such but any mission set is effectively overridden if CAP is ordered. Kull has the fighters for Hiryu and Soryu with Pearl Harbour as a target - but presumably these aircraft won't be flying to Pearl given their assignment?

The range for all fighters is 9. Why would this be set to 9? I am seeking to protect my carriers first and foremost. There is a range of altitudes set. What is the thinking here e.g. suppose there were only two carriers? What would an optimal CAP look like? There is also a large difference in Patrol Level (which I understand from the manual is a percentage) and so aircraft. What would the thinking be here. Is there an optimal number of planes?

Dive Bombers

Unlike the TBs the DBs have different ranges (4-7). How do I ensure these have fighter cover if they find anything?

Altitude is set for all aircraft at 10,000 so assume that is a 'standard' dive bomber height?

Why no search arcs for the DB's?

Torpedo Bombers

I notice the armament for the Kates has been changed to bombs. Shouldn't at least some torpedo mounted aircraft be in the sky in case of enemy naval units that may attack?

Why would search arcs be set for the TB's and not the DB's?

Like the DBs Should the TB's not be escorted to their mission (should they find enemy ships?

Why would there be a range of altitudes for the TB's?

It would be nice to get some answers to these questions but also any general commentary from experienced players on this aspect of the game. Thank-you.

[warspite1]

Next up are the submarines around Hawaii

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I would be grateful for some comment on the table below and how the game interprets orders. These are orders for the KB's air groups and come from Kull's spreadsheet. This is not designed as a commentary on Kull's orders as such - but to better understand the game mechanics for newbies like myself.
How is it you went back to being a "newbie"?

Fighters

So my understanding from the manual that there is no CAP mission as such but any mission set is effectively overridden if CAP is ordered. Kull has the fighters for Hiryu and Soryu with Pearl Harbour as a target - but presumably these aircraft won't be flying to Pearl given their assignment?
With Escort mission, any planes left over after the percentage assigned to the specific categories will be available for actual escort duty.

The range for all fighters is 9. Why would this be set to 9? I am seeking to protect my carriers first and foremost. There is a range of altitudes set. What is the thinking here e.g. suppose there were only two carriers? What would an optimal CAP look like? There is also a large difference in Patrol Level (which I understand from the manual is a percentage) and so aircraft. What would the thinking be here. Is there an optimal number of planes?
IMO there are no really specific answers to these questions. As you know Range setting limits how far that group will wander, but is subject to chance with increased chances of going farther based on group's pilots' experience. Use the Range setting to favor what you want. If all ships in one TF, use Range 0 for maximum protection, but realize the group set that way will not provide escort to any strikes on TF's which sortie (it will still go to any assigned bases, that is 'Target' bases).

Players use the percentage settings to influence how many planes are left to go on missions (left over = available for escort) and to get lots of CAP with reasonable fatigue (high CAP percentage for several turns can wear out the group). 40-50% CAP seems often used, but players vary it with the circumstances.

Dive Bombers

Unlike the TBs the DBs have different ranges (4-7). How do I ensure these have fighter cover if they find anything?
Can't ensure, but having fighters with a similar altitude setting and Range set at least as far as the target helps. If a base is set as Target you can set fighters group(s) to that Target.

Altitude is set for all aircraft at 10,000 so assume that is a 'standard' dive bomber height?
10k-18k IIRC. 10k seems most used.

Why no search arcs for the DB's?
For bases search arcs are great. For TF's the problem is search arcs are specified by map direction. There is no option to set them relative to TF course. You might want your most intense and longest range search set for the direction of travel, but you can only do that by micro-managing search arcs for groups in the TF each turn.

Torpedo Bombers

I notice the armament for the Kates has been changed to bombs. Shouldn't at least some torpedo mounted aircraft be in the sky in case of enemy naval units that may attack?
Personal choice. The selection of bombs for TB's on Port Attack is to allow them to carry the 800 kg bombs as historically done at Pearl Harbor.

Why would search arcs be set for the TB's and not the DB's?
Personal choice. I recommend no search arcs for carrier groups in most situations.

Like the DBs Should the TB's not be escorted to their mission (should they find enemy ships?
Same comments.

Why would there be a range of altitudes for the TB's?
The ones armed with bombs might benefit from the higher altitude??

It would be nice to get some answers to these questions but also any general commentary from experienced players on this aspect of the game. Thank-you.
Sure thing, "newbie"! [:D]

[warspite1]

Thank-you - that is very helpful.

One follow-up question:

So my understanding from the manual that there is no CAP mission as such but any mission set is effectively overridden if CAP is ordered. Kull has the fighters for Hiryu and Soryu with Pearl Harbour as a target - but presumably these aircraft won't be flying to Pearl given their assignment?
witpqs response:With Escort mission, any planes left over after the percentage assigned to the specific categories will be available for actual escort duty.

Does this apply only to fighters on Escort? Two of the air units are still on Sweep.

And to be clear. If I have a small number of bombers on naval search (as currently) - and they find a target - do the game mechanics then vector in other aircraft - even though I have no bombers on anything other than naval search missions? I hope that question makes sense?

Why Newbie? I don't think playing Coral Sea about 4 times against the AI (and getting creamed) about 10 years ago really qualifies me as anything else!

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
And to be clear. If I have a small number of bombers on naval search (as currently) - and they find a target - do the game mechanics then vector in other aircraft - even though I have no bombers on anything other than naval search missions? I hope that question makes sense?

Only airgroups set on Naval will attack ships at sea, within their set range. Search planes sometimes drop bombs on what they find, and sometimes even hit with those, but you won't get a combat report about that

[rustysi]

OK, first some general comments and then I'll get into specifics.

That chart FWIW is a recipe for disaster. By that set up there will be exactly no aircraft strikes launched. All CV based bomber air units are set to search and that is all they will do. Their proper mission is Naval Attack. Once that's set a list of 'sub missions' will appear below the list of mission types. Here you may put a percentage of that units' aircraft on a 'different mission'. Such as 10% search, or 20% ASW. That being said I never put aircraft from the same group on both search and ASW. Why? Because the optimum altitude settings are different for the different mission types. Search 6k, ASW 2k.

Now my 'rule of thumb' is to set some of my DB's to search, say 10-20%, depending on the situation. No torp bombers are set to anything other than 'Naval Attack' (torpedoes). Again why? Well my DB's early on are Val's, and their ordnance is a 250kg bomb. Not bad, but not optimal. So I'll expend some of their effort on finding my targets. OTOH my TB's put holes in hulls and this lets the sea in and will ultimately sink my opponents' ships.[:D] The only way I'll change this is when I'm out of or low on torp sorties. BTW if you've run outta torps, you are either very wrong or you have decimated your opponent. Head 'home' to resup. At any rate if I get stuck in that situation, then I 'reverse' the roles of my bombers. Search with TB's and let all my DB's have an attack role. Again, again why?[:D] DB's are more accurate than level bombers, which is what TB's become with a load of bombs. Oh, and one more thing.

Altitude is set for all aircraft at 10,000 so assume that is a 'standard' dive bomber height?
10k-18k IIRC.

That's wrong. DB's will only dive from altitudes between 10-15k. Below or above that range they will level bomb. Anything about 'glide bombing' is also wrong as at some point in development it has been removed.

Now torpedo bombers' altitude doesn't matter (for the most part), because they will drop down to 200' for the torpedo run. What does make a difference is that each attack is fired on by AAA prior to the attack and then at the 'instance of attack'. All 'heavy' AAA guns in the TF will fire in the initial attack. In the second only the guns on the attacked vessel will fire. As you can see if your initial altitude is higher you will probably have less losses from the first attack.

Why no search arcs for the DB's?

Many players don't use search arcs. I know of no one who uses them for a TF at sea. I never set search arcs for TF's at sea. I do use them for LBA, unless the unit just has too few A/C to make a real difference. IOW units with 6 or fewer A/C.

Pearl Harbour as a target - but presumably these aircraft won't be flying to Pearl given their assignment?

Again I rarely assign CV fighter groups to a specific target. You can't 'target' a TF and after PH I rarely attack land targets with my CV air units. Their pilots are too valuable to lose over land targets. Now again that's just a 'rule of thumb'. When an opportunity exists where the loss level is insignificant I will take the chance.

Unlike the TBs the DBs have different ranges (4-7).

This is again the wrong thing to do. I set all units to the same range as I want as much as possible on target at the same time. The goal is to overwhelm his defense and blow through to strike his ships. The more the merrier in these instances.

There is a range of altitudes set. What is the thinking here e.g. suppose there were only two carriers?

Over time the CAP process was evaluated and like all tactics during the war it evolved. CAP became layered, especially in the USN. High CAP, Low CAP, and Med CAP became SOP. So a 'range' of altitudes. I set them as best I can when there're few CV's in the TF or group of TF's.

Why would there be a range of altitudes for the TB's?

No real need, unless you're trying to possibly slip some by his CAP. IOW you are hoping his CAP will miss some of the strikes. Hence layered CAP.[;)]

Does this apply only to fighters on Escort? Two of the air units are still on Sweep.

No, it applies to all mission types. Including bombers. Hence 'Naval Attack', with a percentage assigned to another mission type. E.g., search, ASW, etc.

Well 'newbie', I hope some of this helps.[:D]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Thank-you - that is very helpful.

One follow-up question:

So my understanding from the manual that there is no CAP mission as such but any mission set is effectively overridden if CAP is ordered. Kull has the fighters for Hiryu and Soryu with Pearl Harbour as a target - but presumably these aircraft won't be flying to Pearl given their assignment?
witpqs response:With Escort mission, any planes left over after the percentage assigned to the specific categories will be available for actual escort duty.

Does this apply only to fighters on Escort? Two of the air units are still on Sweep.
Yes, pretty sure it only applies to the Escort mission.

And to be clear. If I have a small number of bombers on naval search (as currently) - and they find a target - do the game mechanics then vector in other aircraft - even though I have no bombers on anything other than naval search missions? I hope that question makes sense?
GetAssista answered, but just for completeness... You have to have groups on the Naval Attack mission. Basically, you are envisioning it backwards. Put the group on Naval Attack, then set a percentage of the group to search. That percent will search while the remainder are available for any actual attack which develops.

The Search mission (and ASW) are meant for groups which are not intended to attack targets (other than individual planes while out searching).

Why Newbie? I don't think playing Coral Sea about 4 times against the AI (and getting creamed) about 10 years ago really qualifies me as anything else!
Nah! You ain't no newbie 'round 'ere!